1866 Trigger Spring

[Idaho Gunslinger]

I think my trigger spring is worn out on my Uberti 1866. The hammer is riding the bolt forward in matches. 

 

I lever the rifle and the hammer is all the way forward. Cock the hammer with my thumb and it goes bang every time. I know I didn't have my finger near the trigger when closing the lever. At the Wild Bunch match last Tuesday I had to cock probably 25 of the 30 rifle shots. Ended up just borrowing a rifle to finish the match. 

 

For the life of me I cannot find a replacement though other than some put of used guns. Any help guys?

[Ol Number4]

Check sear engagement first!!  a spring won't fix a poor interface between sear and hammer notch.

 

Ol'  #4

[Idaho Gunslinger]

18 minutes ago, Ol Number4 said:

Check sear engagement first!!  a spring won't fix a poor interface between sear and hammer notch.

 

Ol'  #4

With Sear engagement I think it looks OK but I'm not sure what normal looks like. I assume the lip on the hammer gets worn down and I'd have to replace the hammer right?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Or the tip of the trigger gets worn.

[Matthew Duncan]

4 hours ago, Idaho Gunslinger said:

 For the life of me I cannot find a replacement though other than some put of used guns. Any help guys?

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/1866-rifle-parts.html

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

It is NOT the trigger spring!

My bet, the trigger is worn.....

[Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037]

I've never seen a trigger spring that was worn out.  Lots of triggers (sears on '73s) and hammers worn out though.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

One quick and dirty check is to cock your unloaded firearm and give gentle pressure forward to the hammer without touching the trigger. If the hammer drops forward then either the lower trigger or the hammer sear is done. Generally a good idea to change both unless you have access to a jig to recut the notches properly. New trigger spring might hide the problem but is not the root cause. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Idaho Gunslinger]

Thanks guys! I went ahead and ordered the hammer, trigger, and trigger spring just to be safe. 

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

What it probably really is, is that the bore of the rifle where the bolt rides has worn enough so the the bolt is higher in the back and will no longer push the hammer back far enough to get it to totally engage the trigger. Shortening the trigger has always fixed this for me. Best you use a sear jig, though, or you will have a too light or too heavy trigger pull.

  Hammers on Uberti's are pretty hard, and rarely wear out. And if the trigger had worn it would just engage earlier and not have the " hammer won't cock" problem. Unless the trigger face has worn enough that it just won't keep engagement with the hammer, but I haven't found this to be true most of the time.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I worked on a number of 1866s and Henrys that were completely clapped out.  Trigger Spring and Hammer were just fine.  The usual culprit was the wear of the Trigger Sear.  My first look would be the Trigger.  the next worse wear point, as mentioned by Slim is the thru bore for the Extension Rod.  Parts have already been ordered so best of luck.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

I just tried pushing the hammer forward with my thumb. I wouldn't call it gentle pressure but just a tad more than gentle and the hammer will drop forward.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Well there you go.  Push - drop - worn.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

One of thr cowboys I shoot with asked if I could still push the hammer forward if I am also pushing the trigger forward and doing this I cannot push the trigger forward even with a huge amount of force from my thumb. He is the one suggesting I replace my trigger spring. 

 

He did say that since I could push the hammer forward though that the sear is likely nearing the end of it's life and I could try taking a stone to the hammer. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Since you have already ordered the parts you are on the right track.  The most likely cause of the problem is the tip of the trigger (sear) rounding its edges.  The next most likely is the hammer full cock notch wearing.  The least likely problem is the trigger spring, although anything can fail.  It is also possible for the hole in the receiver that the firing pin extension rides in to ware but that would take a LOT of rounds.  If you do not know what you are doing, do not have the proper stones or hones for the job and do not have a sear jig your chances of making things worse out weight your chances of making things better.  You have not provided any good CLEAR photos of any of these parts so any further guesses are just that.  SWAGS.

[watab kid]

good to know - i shoot an 1866 regularly 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

Probably not a surprise but I swapped all 3 parts out and the trigger pull is incredibly heavy now. Hopefully it'll break in with some dry fire. 

 

The old trigger spring is the one on the bottom with the slight arch to it. The new one is flat as could be. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Try putting in the old trigger spring.  You did not list what mods have been done.  Different mainspring?  Changed the lifter and carrier springs?  Short stroke?

[Idaho Gunslinger]

I bought the gun used on here in 2020. I haven't changed anything til now. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Is that the new hammer?

 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

31 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Is that the new hammer?

 

Old hammer is laying on top of the new hammer in the close up photo. It's easier to see in person than capture in a photo but the new hammer has a lot more meat on it than the old one. 

 

In the last 2 photos the new hammer is on the right. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

4 hours ago, Idaho Gunslinger said:

Old hammer is laying on top of the new hammer in the close up photo. It's easier to see in person than capture in a photo but the new hammer has a lot more meat on it than the old one. 

 

In the last 2 photos the new hammer is on the right. 

Your heavier trigger pull weight, is because of the angle the full cock notches are cut at on the new hammer.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

What do the sear tips on the triggers look like, an end view? That is the important part of them. The new hammer notch certainly looks undercut, makes for a heavy pull.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:37 PM, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

What do the sear tips on the triggers look like, an end view? That is the important part of them. The new hammer notch certainly looks undercut, makes for a heavy pull.

The triggers are shown above. I did the put calipers on it but they look completely identical other than the old one has the blueing worn off. The metal doesn't appear to have any wear at all. 

 

As an update, one of my friends clamped the hammer in a vice and took a diamond file to it to make the notch a little deeper. I reinstalled the old hammer, old trigger and old trigger spring and took it shooting. It shot just fine other than I think the pull might be a hair heavier than before. It's way better than whole new setup though. I meant to put my trigger gage on it but I wouldn't be surprised it if was a 30lb pull. It was so heavy it was almost hard to believe. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Keep a close watch on your hammer/trigger engagement.  Once the sear surfaces have started to wear that is almost a sure sign the surface hardening on the parts has worn away.  Filing will just take the notches even further into softer metal.  If you know someone that can do it you should have the filed surfaces rehardened.

[Idaho Gunslinger]

12 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Keep a close watch on your hammer/trigger engagement.  Once the sear surfaces have started to wear that is almost a sure sign the surface hardening on the parts has worn away.  Filing will just take the notches even further into softer metal.  If you know someone that can do it you should have the filed surfaces rehardened.

Good to know. I at least know a quick test now of trying to push the hammer forward with my thumb.