Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Interesting. Evidently the Second Amendment applies to illegal aliens (aka "Newcomers," as per the President): https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2024/03/16/prohibiting-guns-for-illegal-immigrants-ruled-unconstitutional-n1224214 Interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 As I understand it, entering the United States illegally is a Felony. Therefore the judge is saying “felons can buy a gun”. If the judge is saying only certain felons can buy a gun and the majority of those certain felons are Hispanic it would appear she is racist or using race to sway judgment. Perhaps she is a member of GARE the Government Alliance on Race and Equity. This is a racist group bent on the promotion and hiring of anyone besides white males that has infested local and state governments across the USA and is working its way into Federal Government. It’s kind of like how the Nazis gained power in Germany. Ah, too much for a Monday morning you say? Take heart. There’s more to come in the coming months. There will be a flurry of madness before November. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 A: they are not adjudicated felons. 2: not 'buy' , 'posess' iii: pre 1964 felons COULD buy and possess guns. So that law wouldn't stand up to historical scrutiny either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 You need a legitimate legal ID and proof of address to fill out a 4473. I don’t understand this judge’s ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 29 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: You need a legitimate legal ID and proof of address to fill out a 4473. I don’t understand this judge’s ruling. Fellow got busted and he was in 'possession' of a firearm. Never mentions purchase. He was 'bearing arms' and the judge dismissed the possession charge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, Texas Joker said: Fellow got busted and he was in 'possession' of a firearm. Never mentions purchase. He was 'bearing arms' and the judge dismissed the possession charge I guess they never investigated where and how he got the gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 A good defense attorney is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: You need a legitimate legal ID and proof of address to fill out a 4473. I don’t understand this judge’s ruling. me either as it also asks if your a citizen , but then maybe this is laying the groundwork to get hunter off on his gun crimes , 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 My neighbor has a green card and is allowed to purchase firearms due to having a SS #, so she says! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 16 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I guess they never investigated where and how he got the gun! If he purchased the firearm from a non-FFL holder there wouldn't be a requirement to fill out 4377 or any other paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: If he purchased the firearm from a non-FFL holder there wouldn't be a requirement to fill out 4377 or any other paperwork. Correct but he's not allowed to have a gun if he's an ILLEGAL immigrant! He's already broke the law by coming in illegally! They should be trying to find out from where and who he got it from! Edited March 19 by Rye Miles #13621 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 According the the article entering the country is a Misdemeanor. I have no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 45 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Correct but he's not allowed to have a gun if he's an ILLEGAL immigrant! He's already broke the law by coming in illegally! They should be trying to find out from where and who he got it from! My neighbor indicated that being illegal/ undocumented is a misdemeanor, so no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) https://www.lawfirm1.com/unlawful-entry You have to scroll down to see it’s a felony according to this. (??) Edited March 19 by Rye Miles #13621 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 @Eyesa Horg. He broke the LAW. A law can be declared unconstitutional He exercised a Right. A Civil Right that our constitution says the Government cannot infringe. If he were a foreign national in the US illegally would you have a problem with him going to church on Sunday? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) Thank you. I've been trying to get that point across theTO people for years, with very little success. You say the Second amendment only applies to citizens? Well if the second only applies to citizens, then the other nine only apply to citizens. Right? Any foreign National in this country - whether he's an illegal alien or whether he's here on a tourist visa - can be picked up, searched for any reason, takingTAKEN into the back room and beaten to get a confession, right? Because he's not a citizen so the Bill of Rights doesn't apply. Wrong. The Bill of Rights applies to everybody in this country. It does not say "the right of the citizens", it says "the right of the people". That's all the people. You set foot inside the boundaries of this country and you have civil rights. A lot of people don't like that, but that doesn't change the fact. The Constitution doesn't say citizens. It says people. That means all the people. Edited March 19 by Alpo otto can't spell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 minutes ago, Alpo said: Thank you. I've been trying to get that point across theTO people for years, with very little success. You say the Second amendment only applies to citizens? Well if the second only applies to citizens, then the other nine only apply to citizens. Right? Any foreign National in this country - whether he's an illegal alien or whether he's here on a tourist visa - can be picked up, searched for any reason, takingTAKEN into the back room and beaten to get a confession, right? Because he's not a citizen so the Bill of Rights doesn't apply. Wrong. The Bill of Rights applies to everybody in this country. It does not say "the right of the citizens", it says "the right of the people". That's all the people. You set foot inside the boundaries of this country and you have civil rights. A lot of people don't like that, but that doesn't change the fact. The Constitution doesn't say citizens. It says people. That means all the people. According to what I found he’s a felon and felons can’t buy or own guns. See what I pasted above. 19 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: https://www.lawfirm1.com/unlawful-entry You have to scroll down to see it’s a felony according to this. (??) Here it is……… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Unless he has been convicted of a felony he is not a felon. I understand that that is a technicality, but still. And actually, the law that says the convicted felons cannot own guns - that's unconstitutional. The second does not say "the right of the people except for convicted felons". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 That was my feeling. Although the neighbor is legal. She's been here since 05 as a Professor at the University of Chicago and get to go for her citizenship in April. She's pretty excited about. I guess it's quite the process and expense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 minute ago, Alpo said: Unless he has been convicted of a felony he is not a felon. I understand that that is a technicality, but still. And actually, the law that says the convicted felons cannot own guns - that's unconstitutional. The second does not say "the right of the people except for convicted felons". And some felonies have nothing to do with violence or guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 I apologize to Eyesa Horg, I should have tagged Rye here. Felon or not: it's a Civil Right defined in the constitution as non infringeable. GCA 1968 is what makes felons prohibited persons. ALSO unconstitutional under strict scrutiny. Or what group would you like the .gov to single out next to limit civil liberties? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 9 minutes ago, Alpo said: Unless he has been convicted of a felony he is not a felon. I understand that that is a technicality, but still. And actually, the law that says the convicted felons cannot own guns - that's unconstitutional. The second does not say "the right of the people except for convicted felons". Unconstitutional technically but according to present day law felons cannot own guns. I wonder if in the early days of our country were felons barred from owning guns? Hmmm..........another thing to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 They were while imprisoned. Upon release nothing to stop em and several locations would make sure they got their guns taken from them back. GCA68 made those bad scary people prohibited. If they are rehabilitated, why not allow them defense if they are not rehabilitated why are they in the general public 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 8 minutes ago, Texas Joker said: They were while imprisoned. Upon release nothing to stop em and several locations would make sure they got their guns taken from them back. GCA68 made those bad scary people prohibited. If they are rehabilitated, why not allow them defense if they are not rehabilitated why are they in the general public That's what I found as well. No gun laws were enacted until 1934 that I can find anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: If he purchased the firearm from a non-FFL holder there wouldn't be a requirement to fill out 4377 or any other paperwork. Depends on the state. In Colorado (technically) ALL firearms transactions must go through the NICS system, whether private sale or commercial sale. Didn’t use to be that way but our California transplant democrat governor rammed the legislation through with the backing of a democrat majority legislature. Supposedly to make us all safer, but they don’t bother keeping statistics on such things as how many crimes are committed with a firearm that went through the check and how many crimes where that didn’t happen. Just another example of government grabbing as much power and control over everything as possible. Regards Gateway Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 @Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Firearms don't go through NICS people do. Type is listed on 4473 but I don't recall things like make model and serial #. Might could be on the back office part but not on my side of the counter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Just now, Texas Joker said: @Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Firearms don't go through NICS people do. Type is listed on 4473 but I don't recall things like make model and serial #. Might could be on the back office part but not on my side of the counter. Every paper form 4473 In Colorado has a section for “type”, “make”, “S/N” for the retailer to fill out. Electronic version as well. Figured it was a federal form so would be the same everywhere. Sales people have taken to having at least a couple checks that the “S/N” is correct before closing out the form. Regards Gateway Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Could be, I never paid attention. Storekeeper is supposed to keep those records, my info is what goes to the feds. But there's no registry.... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Texas Joker said: Could be, I never paid attention. Storekeeper is supposed to keep those records, my info is what goes to the feds. But there's no registry.... right? This is what happens to the 4473’s when the gun store closes. The forms stay with the FFL holder until this time. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/discontinue-being-federal-firearms-licensee-ffl Edited March 19 by Rye Miles #13621 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 It's been a while since I did a 4473, but On the front it has all my information. And it has the type of gun - long gun or handgun. That is important because there's an age difference. If I'm 20 and I'm buying a long gun they'll approve me but if I'm trying to buy a handgun they will turn me down. Not old enough. On the back of it it wants the make of the gun and the model of the gun and the serial number of the gun. That is on the back. That information is not given during the call in. The only information that is given during the call in is what is on the front. Name, address, citizenship, age, social, type of gun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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