Wonder how many people die because of television?

[Alpo]

Televised cop shows - CSI, NCIS, shows like that. The medical examiner always gets bent if anyone has touched the body before he gets there.

 

They had an early NCIS. A SEAL team is repelling down a cliff, and a piece of gear breaks and one of them falls to his death. When the team shows up, both Ducky and Gibbs are pissed because it's obviously the body has been moved. And the SEAL team Commander said that the other members of the team were trying to see if he was still alive.

 

Another episode, there was a drug dealer shootout offshore. And there's two or three bodies washed up on the beach. When Ducky and Gibbs get there, there's an army CID guy and a DEA guy just standing there looking at the two bodies on the beach. And it's obvious from the lack of footprints that nobody has walked over to the two bodies. Ducky is ecstatic. "This scene is pristine!" But if nobody has walked over to the two bodies, how do they know they're dead? Maybe they were still alive 20 minutes ago, when the cops showed up, but nobody came near the body cuz they didn't want to disturb the crime scene.

 

So I can see it now. Something violent happens to someone. They get shot, they get stabbed, they get hit by a car. And no one goes to help them because they don't want to disturb the crime scene. Of course maybe if they went to help, they could have stopped the guy from bleeding out and he would still be alive.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Probably  none would be my guess.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I think that many people see bears in tv ads and are led to believe that bears are harmless leading to careless behavior which ultimately causes their death.

[Michigan Slim]

I wonder how many anvils were sold because of Coyote and Roadrunner? And rockets! 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

19 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said:

I wonder how many anvils were sold because of Coyote and Roadrunner? And rockets! 

And many cans of black tunnel paint.

[Alpo]

59 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said:

I wonder how many anvils were sold because of Coyote and Roadrunner? And rockets! 

 

39 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

And many cans of black tunnel paint.

Okay, how about this?

 

I wonder how many juries don't believe the expert witnesses because they don't have all the wonderful forensic evidence that they show on CSI?

 

I see many cops, on many different boards, complaining about how juries believe that crap you see on the television about the irrescapable evidence using fingerprints and DNA and all the other happy horse caca that Abby uses. They figure if CSI can do it and if NCIS can do it, then the local police department should be able to do it too, and if the local cops don't have that then obviously the defendant is not guilty.

 

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

 

Okay, how about this

 

I see many cops, on many different boards, complaining about how juries believe that crap you see on the television about the irrescapable evidence using fingerprints and DNA and all the other happy horse caca that Abby uses. They figure if CSI can do it and if NCIS can do it, then the local police department should be able to do it too, and if the local cops don't have that then obviously the defendant is not guilty.

 

 

 

Fingerprints and DNA are very useful evidence in many cases.

 

I was collaterally involved, after the fact, in one case where a man spent 15 years in prison for a rape he did not commit. He always maintained his innocence; refusing 'sex offender' counselling that would have required he admit the crime, and which would have led to earlier release.He was eventually exonerated by DNA, both by defense and State testing (the rape kit had been preserved). He'd been convicted on 'hair comparison' evidence, which, under the particular circumstances,  amounted to junk science.

The original prosecutors, police, and the original State forensic 'expert' would not accept that they had been wrong, though they could do nothing about it. Turns out that denial is not uncommon in such cases....

Then, ten years after the man's release, the State got an exact DNA hit on a guy who had a low-level record, but had never had DNA test before.. He confessed to the old crime. Interestingly, he looked a lot like the guy who'd been convicted. Unfortunately, the statute of limitations on the original crime had expired.

[watab kid]

im not going to waste time wondering on things i cannot readily know but my question might be if you arrive on the scene and administer CPR without any official training in it would you maybe be held responsible for the death ? it would seem to me to be the natural response to try to help but ive seen a show or two in which the provider [even with military training as a medic got into trouble for giving aid without credentials , we all hope we never are in that position but should it occur , what would you do ? 

 

as a teen i had occasion to come across a boy floating face down in a pool with a diving mask on , i waded in , pulled him out and removed the mask , by then a doctor that was on the scene heard me call out and came to administer CPR , the kid lived thank god , i was about to do so as the doctor took over , i didnt give it all a lot of thought at that moment but then back then we were not such a society of legal actions after the fact ,  

 

im not sure why there is a limitation statute on some of these crimes , i get it on a no victim or monetary crime but rape/murder - that i dont get , when there is a victim that has suffered great bodily harm - i dont think the statute of limitations should apply , 

or maybe we should just give the victim a couple shots at the perp without consequences - just to be fair and all that sort  

Edited February 14 by watab kid

[Cypress Sun]

 

"Crime scenes" involving serious bodily injure get disturbed and contaminated by law enforcement/medical personnel on a regular basis. Person shot 14 times, yet still alive receives preliminary treatment at the scene and is then transported to the hospital where they die. Same thing with a drunk driving car crash victim, barroom beat down victim, hit and run, etc., etc.  I'm pretty sure that it happens all the time.

 

I really don't believe that law enforcement or medical personnel wait to help seriously injured people or check to see if the person is still alive just to preserve a possible crime scene. 

 

In the example given in the original post, how would Ducky and Gibbs know if the scene has been disturbed or not. They may be able to determine that it hasn't been disturbed in the few minutes but that's it. Bodies don't wash up on the beach above whatever level the tide was at the time of beaching and waves could have erased any footprints (or other evidence) from the scene. Their assumption that the crime scene is "pristine" is clearly presumptuous and quite possibly incorrect. 

 

For the record, I don't watch those shows and have never seen the episode mentioned.

[Eyesa Horg]

9 hours ago, Alpo said:

 

Okay, how about this?

 

I wonder how many juries don't believe the expert witnesses because they don't have all the wonderful forensic evidence that they show on CSI?

 

I see many cops, on many different boards, complaining about how juries believe that crap you see on the television about the irrescapable evidence using fingerprints and DNA and all the other happy horse caca that Abby uses. They figure if CSI can do it and if NCIS can do it, then the local police department should be able to do it too, and if the local cops don't have that then obviously the defendant is not guilty.

 

 

When we were burglarized a decade ago; I put cones in my door yard to protect the perps tire tracks and showed the State trooper a complete hand print on the headboard of our bed. He laughed at me and told me I watched too much CSI. They didn't even want the serial numbers of the firearms that were stolen. 

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

When we were burglarized a decade ago; I put cones in my door yard to protect the perps tire tracks and showed the State trooper a complete hand print on the headboard of our bed. He laughed at me and told me I watched too much CSI. They didn't even want the serial numbers of the firearms that were stolen. 

Back in the late seventies I was a security guard at a hotel on the beach. One night somebody in the parking lot out front fired a few shots across the street into the bar. When the cops arrived I showed them the 9 mm brass lying on the ground. They weren't interested in it.

 

With my limited knowledge of law enforcement, based on TV shows and movies , it seem like that would be important evidence, and would quite possibly have the fingerprints of the guy that loaded the gun. But they didn't want it. So I ended up taking it home and giving it to my brother who had a model 39 Smith and he reloaded it.

[Eyesa Horg]

19 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Back in the late seventies I was a security guard at a hotel on the beach. One night somebody in the parking lot out front fired a few shots across the street into the bar. When the cops arrived I showed them the 9 mm brass lying on the ground. They weren't interested in it.

 

With my limited knowledge of law enforcement, based on TV shows and movies , it seem like that would be important evidence, and would quite possibly have the fingerprints of the guy that loaded the gun. But they didn't want it. So I ended up taking it home and giving it to my brother who had a model 39 Smith and he reloaded it.

Similar a couple weeks ago. 14 shots out at the road in front well after dark. We have trouble with poachers in this area, so I called the Game Warden and had to leave a message. The next morning I took  Kimber for her walk and found 6 45acp and 4 9mm brass! Picked up with a stick and called the GW back. Still haven't heard from him!

Edited February 14 by Eyesa Horg
Auto correct again!

[Pat Riot]

I used to believe that TV detective, CSI, NCIS type crap. It’s a far cry from reality. Just like most people these days. Reality isn’t exciting enough. 
 

If cop shows were actually realistic there would be a couple of hours of paper work and administrative horse crap the TV detective would do on each shift. That doesn’t include sitting in court, prepping for court, waiting for approvals on high for stake outs, bugs, searches, etc.

[Cypress Sun]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

When we were burglarized a decade ago; I put cones in my door yard to protect the perps tire tracks and showed the State trooper a complete hand print on the headboard of our bed. He laughed at me and told me I watched too much CSI. They didn't even want the serial numbers of the firearms that were stolen. 

 

30 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Back in the late seventies I was a security guard at a hotel on the beach. One night somebody in the parking lot out front fired a few shots across the street into the bar. When the cops arrived I showed them the 9 mm brass lying on the ground. They weren't interested in it.

 

With my limited knowledge of law enforcement, based on TV shows and movies , it seem like that would be important evidence, and would quite possibly have the fingerprints of the guy that loaded the gun. But they didn't want it. So I ended up taking it home and giving it to my brother who had a model 39 Smith and he reloaded it.

 

11 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Similar a couple weeks ago. 14 shots out at the road in front well after dark. We have trouble with poachers in this area, so I called the Game Warden and had to leave a message. The next morning I took  Kimber for her walk and found 6 45acp and 4 9mm brass! Picked up with a stick and called the GW back. Still haven't heard from him!

 

A very sad commentary of the investigation process, or lack of I should say.

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

There’d be some cops who say “we don’t investigate that.”

[Eyesa Horg]

We actually found the burglars ourselves! They stole a crap load of quarters, so we went to all the General stores in the area and asked them to let us know if anyone came in spending bunches of Liberty or State quarters. Took 4 days!! Took the courts years to prosecute him and let him go on a suspended sentence. He's now in jail for attacking a Corrections officer! About a week after getting away with our burglary and 7 others the same day, he got caught burglarizing an occupied home! Wish they'd shot the bastage.

[Black Angus McPherson]

6 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

 

 

A very sad commentary of the investigation process, or lack of I should say.

 

 

I agree, and it seems more and more Police Departments won't even respond to many crimes anymore unless it's in progress.  If your car gets stolen or your house/business gets burglarized just call the dept. in the morning and they'll take the report over the phone.  You want somebody to process for prints or collect other evidence?  Good luck with that.

 

Sometimes it's embarrassing to be associated with the profession.  I spent a lot of years responding to just about any crime you could name.  I collected a lot of evidence (some I was pretty sure was worthless) and latent fingerprints from many of them.  I am proud to say that, for several years running, I had the best clearance rate on the department from fingerprints recovered at crime scenes.

 

Some of the problem is too much work and not enough manpower and some is just laziness or incompetence on the part of the officer(s) involved.  That includes some supervisors.  Man, this has brought up a lot of bad memories..  I'm SOOO glad I'm retired.

 

Angus

 

 

[Alpo]

This isn't a new thing.

 

In 1992 my pickup was burglarized. I called the cops. They wanted to know what was stolen. They were going to take the report over the phone. I told them my CB radio and my toolbox. They asked about the value of the tools, and I told them maybe $200 for the hand tools and then there was the value of the gun.

 

GUN??!!??

 

And they sent out a car. Cop never got his fat ass out of the car. Just took the report through the window, and then drove off.

 

Norfolk Virginia.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

9 hours ago, Alpo said:

Back in the late seventies I was a security guard at a hotel on the beach. One night somebody in the parking lot out front fired a few shots across the street into the bar. When the cops arrived I showed them the 9 mm brass lying on the ground. They weren't interested in it.

 

With my limited knowledge of law enforcement, based on TV shows and movies , it seem like that would be important evidence, and would quite possibly have the fingerprints of the guy that loaded the gun. But they didn't want it. So I ended up taking it home and giving it to my brother who had a model 39 Smith and he reloaded it.

 

9 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Similar a couple weeks ago. 14 shots out at the road in front well after dark. We have trouble with poachers in this area, so I called the Game Warden and had to leave a message. The next morning I took  Kimber for her walk and found 6 45acp and 4 9mm brass! Picked up with a stick and called the GW back. Still haven't heard from him!

It's almost as though the local governments don't want crimes solved.

[Eyesa Horg]

If crime stopped, they'd lose their agenda for control.