.454 diameter polymer bullets through a Winchester (Miroku) 1873

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I have hundreds of .454 diameter polymer coated .454 diameter 200 grain bullets that I shoot through a Colt Single Action Army. I'd like to avoid having to load some 45 Colt with .452 diameter bullets for the rifle, and .454 diamter bullets for the revolver. Can I safely and accurately shoot the .454 diamter bullets through the Miroku buillt deluxe Winchester 1873? 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Should be perfectly fine from a functional point of view.  Lead bullets are able to be swaged down very easily upon firing.  If you can get (cowboy level) cartridges loaded so they chamber properly in the gun, they would be OK to shoot.  Accuracy should be on par with a 0.452" diameter slug, but as always, each rifle and bullet combination has it's own accuracy result.  Two thousandths extra diameter with lead bullets (cast or swaged) does not increase pressures significantly.   But, as always is true, if you load cartridges, you should watch for abnormal pressure signs on any change to your loads.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

SASS level loads will be fine.

Load 10 rnds, and do a live fire test.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for GJ and Lump Lump.  Go for it!!

[Griff]

If they're safe in your Colt SAA, they'll likely be more'n fine in the Miroku.  

[watab kid]

no problem , 452-454 is about where you want to be in cast , might be different with FMJ 

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

Make sure they chamber.  My Miroku 1873 .44-40 is not “generous”.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

 

7 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

Make sure they chamber.  My Miroku 1873 .44-40 is not “generous”.

That's what I was gonna say. They should be fine if they will chamber.

[WHITE LIGHTNIN,SASS # 527]

Just because they chamber doesn’t mean they will shoot safely 

check your bore dia with a soft lead 454 round ball and see what your bore is 

 

["Big Boston"]

I've been known to overthink issues and think a bit outside the box. The one load for several guns is a good concept, but sometimes you end up with rifle ammo and pistol ammo, and even ammo for one errant pistol or rifle. Sometimes that's just the way it is unless you are willing to unless you can live with the the compromises.

 

With a polymer bullet you can tolerate a bit undersize, I would tend to check the groove diameters on all you 45 Colts, and size to that diameter. I just send the bullets through a LEE sizer, either style, and carry on. In a cowboy pistol, a slightly undersize bullet is easier on the cylinder. However, there is a limit, you have not given us the throat diameter or groove diameters of your pistol. If your 454 bullet is already undersize for the throats and groove, going smaller likely won't be an option. I've had instances where the rifle has the larger bullet requirement, and because a rifle will tolerate and undersize bullet easier than a pistol will, i just sized for the pistol. In your scenario, you may not be able to go smaller for the pistol. 

 

In which case, to shoot the same ammo in both, you will end up being oversize in the rifle. And like it has been stated, that will raise the pressure slightly, but at our normal loadings, it won't be anywhere close to max. I'd check the rifle chamber, take a fired case, and bell it, (no sizing or anything) and see if a 454 bullet drops into the case like it is supposed to. Or if it takes pressure to seat the bullet. Ideal is loose for our game. In addition, I usually take fired cases and see if they slip into all my chambers. I want to know if I have a gun with anomalies that I'll need to pay attention to. 

 

Most of my 45 colt stuff is loose, and my handguns are all made for 451 - 452 bullets. I have issues with my 44-40, every gun I own in 44-40 is different. and the 44-40 being a bottleneck cartridge, the shoulder isn't in a consistent location either. I set the shoulder back about 010 to 020 from the shortest chamber. Fortunately the 44-40s shoulder location being back further than needed is only a minor ballistic crime, something I don't loose much sleep over. Just the nature of the beast. 

 

BB 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

What??

 

"Bulllet drops into the case like it's suppose to" > > > > Where on earth did you come up with that Malarky??

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep, even with a BIG expander button, you don't want (won't have) the bullet "falling" into the case.  That much expansion in the neck means no neck tension holding the slug, only the crimp.  Which is not enough - it's a collapsed bullet waiting to happen.    You want a little resistance in the neck of the case (called tension) as you seat the slug.   All you want any larger opening in, is the bell at the mouth, to allow bullet to start straight in the case without scraping a sliver of lead.

 

Your 0.454 bullet will not be too small.  The only real caution is that the large diameter bullet combined with some .45 Colt cases with thick walls, may result in a cartridge that does not fit the chamber of your guns, leading to failure to chamber or in revolvers, a sticky rotation because round is not chambering fully in cylinder.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:58 AM, "Big Boston" said:

I've been known to overthink issues and think a bit outside the box. The one load for several guns is a good concept, but sometimes you end up with rifle ammo and pistol ammo, and even ammo for one errant pistol or rifle. Sometimes that's just the way it is unless you are willing to unless you can live with the the compromises.

 

With a polymer bullet you can tolerate a bit undersize, I would tend to check the groove diameters on all you 45 Colts, and size to that diameter. I just send the bullets through a LEE sizer, either style, and carry on. In a cowboy pistol, a slightly undersize bullet is easier on the cylinder. However, there is a limit, you have not given us the throat diameter or groove diameters of your pistol. If your 454 bullet is already undersize for the throats and groove, going smaller likely won't be an option. I've had instances where the rifle has the larger bullet requirement, and because a rifle will tolerate and undersize bullet easier than a pistol will, i just sized for the pistol. In your scenario, you may not be able to go smaller for the pistol. 

 

In which case, to shoot the same ammo in both, you will end up being oversize in the rifle. And like it has been stated, that will raise the pressure slightly, but at our normal loadings, it won't be anywhere close to max. I'd check the rifle chamber, take a fired case, and bell it, (no sizing or anything) and see if a 454 bullet drops into the case like it is supposed to. Or if it takes pressure to seat the bullet. Ideal is loose for our game. In addition, I usually take fired cases and see if they slip into all my chambers. I want to know if I have a gun with anomalies that I'll need to pay attention to. 

 

Most of my 45 colt stuff is loose, and my handguns are all made for 451 - 452 bullets. I have issues with my 44-40, every gun I own in 44-40 is different. and the 44-40 being a bottleneck cartridge, the shoulder isn't in a consistent location either. I set the shoulder back about 010 to 020 from the shortest chamber. Fortunately the 44-40s shoulder location being back further than needed is only a minor ballistic crime, something I don't loose much sleep over. Just the nature of the beast. 

 

BB 

[Tom Payne 13115]

Not a problem. However if you are not sure send them to me and I will test them for you!! You have my address!!

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Thanks for the offer Mr. Payne. I'll take your word those .454's won't cause mischief and mayhem.