Gungadin Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 So if I take my Uberti 1873 and put my trigger force gage inside the lever (back where pinkey sits) and keep the gauge at 90 degrees to the lever I get roughly 4 lbs to cock the hammer. Then it drops off and seems to take 2 lbs to raise the carrier. I lightened the hammer spring some. It did measure 5.25-5.5 lbs. Has anyone checked theirs? How do those forces seem? Concerns? I am getting good primer strikes but my sample is only 10. That is about a 25% reduction in lever force. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 What's you question/concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I have a really dumb right arm/wrist. It has never been able to tell any difference between a light main spring or the factory... It has, however, very much noticed the difference between a Slix Spring Trigger Block Safety spring and the factory one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Lever force gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 56 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: What's you question/concern? If you give me expert gunsmith tuned gun and mine in quick succession I can tell the difference. I don't think I can tell the difference in the tie it takes me to reassemble hense a measurement is all I have. So how good is a professionally tuned 73? I don't think I go any further. I have the habit of finding the point where the item gets finicky. I don't think I should go any further. I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement. Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it? Does the heavy spring cause rebound? Is it a solution searching for a problem? The saying goes 'if you can't measure it you can't improve it'. I have to imagine that some of the professionals have a measurement they want to get to not just I do X,Y and Z and then feel it but maybe when you are an expert that is it... I knew a pianist that claimed she could tell when the electric frequency was 110 hz not 120 based on the record sound, you guys remember old turntables... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 The problem with measuring forces on the Italian guns and trying to tune to a certain value is the variability in the the tolerances of individual guns. You have to tune the springs differently in each gun, find the balance between lever force and and setting off whichever primers you happen to be using. The Uberti guns seem to have more in the way of guidelines than tolerances, also depends on whether that particular rifle was assembled before or after the three Chianti lunch. And yes, after a lot of experience you get a pretty good feel for what will work and what won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 To cock the hammer 2.25 lbs, when the hammer is cocked Carrier is another 8oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Gungadin said: I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement. Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it? Does the heavy spring cause rebound? Is it a solution searching for a problem? NO, it is a definite improvement. It might be the single most important spring you can install, although the lifter & lever springs are usually a marked improvement also. Think the difference between a HD 2-ton p/u rear spring and a light duty 1/2-ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Very easy to tell how light you can go. Back the main spring screw out in 1/4 turn increments and test/measure each 1/4 turn until it no longer sets your primer off reliably then turn it in 1/2 turn and you should be good to go. Simple easy and very reversible if you go too light. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 I have the main spring adjustment screw backed out. That main spring is plenty over designed. As you note, I can run it back in a bit if I start having primer strike issues but that shouldn't happen unless I change to a harder primer or friction starts building up ie dirt. I will order the lever safety spring as recommended. Next time I order stuff, add a few screws to that order. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Gungadin said: ...I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement. Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it? Does the heavy spring cause rebound? Is it a solution searching for a problem?... Several years back Uberti switched to the wire spring for the trigger block. No need for aftermarket if yours has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 Mine is a year old. Must have it and that would be why I don't see an issue. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 Lots of factors involved in how light you can run a mainspring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 There is an oft ignored tenant when "adjusting" CAS/SASS guns. Regardless, pistol or rifle, when the shooter's adrenaline spikes as the buzzer goes off, ALL those silly numbers measurements become meaningless trivia. Do Not overthink it. I forgot. I burned my Shingle at least a Lustrum ago. And I haven't had the opportune to wander the hallowed halls of Cimarron to peek inna boxes, so the existence of "Wire" type Trigger Block Safety spring is news to me. It is, however, considering the "old" spring, a really good idea. It only took Uberti 25 years to figure it out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 9:39 PM, Hells Comin said: To cock the hammer 2.25 lbs, when the hammer is cocked Carrier is another 8oz I improved mine but that is considerably better. Who worked it and what secret? Are you saying 2.25 if the hammer is already cocked? Or is that to cock the hammer? cocking the hammer is where all the force is. Once the hammer cocks the force drops off so it is easy to measure peak force. Measuring the Carrier lifting force is a bit harder as it snaps up to the stop. The carrier force is largely related to the carrier spring not weight and friction? I am going to leave mine as is for now. It is relatively new so it will likely get a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, Gungadin said: I improved mine but that is considerably better. Who worked it and what secret? Are you saying 2.25 if the hammer is already cocked? Or is that to cock the hammer? cocking the hammer is where all the force is. Once the hammer cocks the force drops off so it is easy to measure peak force. Measuring the Carrier lifting force is a bit harder as it snaps up to the stop. The carrier force is largely related to the carrier spring not weight and friction? I am going to leave mine as is for now. It is relatively new so it will likely get a bit better. Yes 2.25 to cock the hammer. I have a Shotgun Boogie short stroke kit- that he installed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hells Comin said: Yes 2.25 to cock the hammer. I have a Shotgun Boogie short stroke kit- that he installed! And it's rather consistent all the way through the stroke. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: And it's rather consistent all the way through the stroke. Phantom Yes and smooth as CountryCrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 Margarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 Impressive, Boogie's is half what mine was new plus short stroked. Guess that is how you make a name for yourself. So that is short stroked, polished, light carrier (not relevant) and some main spring work. My trigger reset is about 1.5#, his trigger cock is 2.25 :-) At my level it is not a big deal but for good rifle guys less force helps most due to reduced muzzle movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 18 minutes ago, Gungadin said: I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring. Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 58 minutes ago, Gungadin said: I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring. A full Boogie job uses pretty much all new components. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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