1873 Measured Lever Force

[Gungadin]

So if I take my Uberti 1873 and put my trigger force gage inside the lever (back where pinkey sits) and keep the gauge at 90 degrees to the lever I get roughly 4 lbs to cock the hammer.  Then it drops off and seems to take 2 lbs to raise the carrier.  I lightened the hammer spring some.  It did measure 5.25-5.5 lbs.  Has anyone checked theirs?  How do those forces seem?  Concerns?

 

I am getting good primer strikes but my sample is only 10.  That is about a 25% reduction in lever force.

 

C

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

What's you question/concern? 

[Griff]

I have a really dumb right arm/wrist.  It has never been able to tell any difference between a light main spring or the factory... It has, however, very much noticed the difference between a Slix Spring Trigger Block Safety spring and the factory one.  

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Lever force gauge.

 

[Gungadin]

56 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What's you question/concern? 

 

If you give me expert gunsmith tuned gun and mine in quick succession I can tell the difference.  I don't think I can tell the difference in the tie it takes me to reassemble hense a measurement is all I have.  So how good is a professionally tuned 73?  I don't think I go any further.  I have the habit of finding the point where the item gets finicky.  I don't think I should go any further.

 

I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement.  Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it?  Does the heavy spring cause rebound?  Is it a solution searching for a problem?

 

The saying goes 'if you can't measure it you can't improve it'.  I have to imagine that some of the professionals have a measurement they want to get to not just I do X,Y and Z and then feel it but maybe when you are an expert that is it...  I knew a pianist that claimed she could tell when the electric frequency was 110 hz not 120 based on the record sound, you guys remember old turntables...

[Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037]

The problem with measuring forces on the Italian guns and trying to tune to a certain value is the variability in the the tolerances of individual guns.

 

You have to tune the springs differently in each gun, find the balance between lever force and and setting off whichever primers you happen to be using.

 

The Uberti guns seem to have more in the way of guidelines than tolerances, also depends on whether that particular rifle was assembled before or after the three Chianti lunch.

 

And yes, after a lot of experience you get a pretty good feel for what will work and what won't.

[Hells Comin]

To cock the hammer 2.25 lbs, when the hammer is cocked Carrier is another 8oz

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Gungadin said:

I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement.  Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it?  Does the heavy spring cause rebound?  Is it a solution searching for a problem?

NO, it is a definite improvement.  It might be the single most important spring you can install, although the lifter & lever springs are usually a marked improvement also.  Think the difference between a HD 2-ton p/u rear spring and a light duty 1/2-ton.  

[Kid Rich]

Very easy to tell how light you can go. Back the main spring screw out in 1/4 turn increments and test/measure each 1/4 turn until it no longer sets your primer off reliably then turn it in 1/2 turn and you should be good to go. Simple easy and very reversible if you go too light.

kR

[Gungadin]

I have the main spring adjustment screw backed out.  That main spring is plenty over designed.  As you note, I can run it back in a bit if I start having primer strike issues but that shouldn't happen unless I change to a harder primer or friction starts building up ie dirt.

 

I will order the lever safety spring as recommended.  Next time I order stuff, add a few screws to that order.

 

Thanks

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

13 hours ago, Gungadin said:

...I am stock on the trigger block, it is a cheep upgrade but I don't envision the improvement.  Doesn't the lever come back pretty hard and actuate it?  Does the heavy spring cause rebound?  Is it a solution searching for a problem?...

Several years back Uberti switched to the wire spring for the trigger block.  No need for aftermarket if yours has that.

[Gungadin]

Mine is a year old.  Must have it and that would be why I don't see an issue.  Thanks.

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

Lots of factors involved in how light you can run a mainspring.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

There is an oft ignored tenant when "adjusting" CAS/SASS guns.  Regardless, pistol or rifle, when the shooter's adrenaline spikes as the buzzer goes off, ALL those silly numbers measurements become meaningless trivia.  Do Not overthink it.

 

I forgot.  I burned my Shingle at least a Lustrum ago.  And I haven't had the opportune to wander the hallowed halls of Cimarron to peek inna boxes, so the existence of "Wire" type Trigger Block Safety spring is news to me.  It is, however, considering the "old" spring, a really good idea.  It only took Uberti 25 years to figure it out!! 

[Gungadin]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:39 PM, Hells Comin said:

To cock the hammer 2.25 lbs, when the hammer is cocked Carrier is another 8oz

I improved mine but that is considerably better.    Who worked it and what secret?  Are you saying 2.25 if the hammer is already cocked?  Or is that to cock the hammer?   cocking the hammer is where all the force is.  Once the hammer cocks the force drops off so it is easy to measure peak force.  Measuring the Carrier lifting force is a bit harder as it snaps up to the stop.  The carrier force is largely related to the carrier spring not weight and friction?

 

I am going to leave mine as is for now.  It is relatively new so it will likely get a bit better.

[Hells Comin]

15 minutes ago, Gungadin said:

I improved mine but that is considerably better.    Who worked it and what secret?  Are you saying 2.25 if the hammer is already cocked?  Or is that to cock the hammer?   cocking the hammer is where all the force is.  Once the hammer cocks the force drops off so it is easy to measure peak force.  Measuring the Carrier lifting force is a bit harder as it snaps up to the stop.  The carrier force is largely related to the carrier spring not weight and friction?

 

I am going to leave mine as is for now.  It is relatively new so it will likely get a bit better.

Yes 2.25 to cock the hammer.  I have a Shotgun Boogie short stroke kit- that he installed!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

13 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Yes 2.25 to cock the hammer.  I have a Shotgun Boogie short stroke kit- that he installed!

And it's rather consistent all the way through the stroke.

 

 

Phantom

[Hells Comin]

8 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And it's rather consistent all the way through the stroke.

 

 

Phantom

Yes and smooth as CountryCrock

[Hells Comin]

Margarine 

[Gungadin]

Impressive, Boogie's is half what mine was new plus short stroked.  Guess that is how you make a name for yourself.  So that is short stroked, polished, light carrier (not relevant) and some main spring work.  My trigger reset is about 1.5#, his trigger cock is 2.25 :-)

 

At my level it is not a big deal but for good rifle guys less force helps most due to reduced muzzle movement?  

[Gungadin]

I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring.

[Hells Comin]

18 minutes ago, Gungadin said:

I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring.

Correct 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

58 minutes ago, Gungadin said:

I assume that is the Boogie coil spring and hammer kit not the OEM leaf main spring.

A full Boogie job uses pretty much all new components.

Phantom