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Titegroup Powder


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In case you have not heard Hodgdon has renamed Titegroup.  It is now High Gun.  Here is a post I copied from a shotshell reloading site.

 

"I just received this from Hodgdon..............

Hello Danny, The High Gun powder is Titegroup with a shotshell name, we felt it was often overlooked for shotshell use even though it is excellent for that. Perfect pattern is however a new powder of its own.

Thank you

Luke Otte
Customer Service Manager

Hodgdon Powder Co.
6430 vista dr.
Shawnee, Ks 66218"

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My understanding is that BOTH the TiteGroup AND High Gun names will be used on this powder in the future.  Not renamed,  but twin-named (like some other Hodgdon/Winchester powders)

 

High Gun sounds like shotgun

(tite) Group sounds like pistol

 

Bet they will do just that - keep both names on separate bottles, all with the same powder inside.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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It was important when Nitro 100 was reformulated to Nitro 100 NF and new loads were published.

 

Not so important when a powder picks up a new, used-in-parallel name.   Only reason you really need to know both names is to recognize the other when the version you really wanted is Out Of Stock.  All existing TG recipes will remain safe and effective.

 

Although I did see a ton of confusion when Red came out, clearly a clone of Red Dot, but Red Dot had already had "Red" applied as a nickname for many years.

 

I kinda see a trend where Hodgdon makes some poor choices on powder names.   But then, so did Alliant by calling a new powder Clay Dot because it was very close to Clays.  Is it really that hard to pick a "unique" powder name, fellows?

 

And now I can get 2 different manufacturers' take on different compositions of 4064 rifle powder.   IMR or Accurate - that will blow up a few guns in the future, I would be willing to bet.    And Hodgdon inadvertently competing with itself, with IMR 4895 and Hodgdon 4895, two different powders.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Cowboy power shotshell loads may be tough because it is a very dense powder, so it will need lots of wad height or even filler (beans, cereal, etc).   The High Gun loads that are published are trap/skeet/clays type loads with 1 or 1 1/8 ounce shot.  But, no, I haven't yet tried it.  I like Clay Dot for my cowboy 7/8 ounce shotshells.

 

good luck, GJ

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On 10/23/2023 at 11:25 AM, August West, SASS #45079 said:

Have any of you guys developed a SHOTSHELL load for Titegroup that you are happy with?   I've found no success in that regard.

I use tight group for my shotgun loads and had to create my own recipe.

I use AA hulls or whatever hulls work in my Dillon sl 900 shotgun loader.

I shoot 7/8ths oz of #7 1/2 or #8 shot and I use 13 grains of Titegroup 

It chronos around 960-980 fps which is the exact same as the Winchester AA factory loads I modeled them after.

I use Either Winchester 209, Cheddite 209.

Clay Buster CB-0178-12 Grey in color with 4 petals

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On 10/23/2023 at 11:25 AM, August West, SASS #45079 said:

Have any of you guys developed a SHOTSHELL load for Titegroup that you are happy with?   I've found no success in that regard.

Note that Yohan is using tapered hulls.  If, like me, you try this with a straight walled hull like the federal top gun, you will need federal 209a primers.

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8 hours ago, Mr Malco said:

does anyone know what Mec bushing will give you 13 or 14gr of Tightgroup  TiteGroup

It varies by the type of loader and your operational technique.  

 

YOU MUST HAVE A POWDER SCALE.   You CANNOT TRUST any of the powder bushing charts to match what your bushing will really throw.  AND, powders vary from lot to lot - density is the common difference that you will find as you open up new bottles.  So, the only way to be sure you are dropping the weights you need is to test weigh several drops DONE with the loader actually operating as you would when loading. 

 

A good low end powder scale is the Frankford Arsenal (only about $30) and it is VERY necessary to good, safe reloading results.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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55 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

It varies by the type of loader and your operational technique.  

 

YOU MUST HAVE A POWDER SCALE.   You CANNOT TRUST any of the powder bushing charts to match what your bushing will really throw.  AND, powders vary from lot to lot - density is the common difference that you will find as you open up new bottles.  So, the only way to be sure you are dropping the weights you need is to test weigh several drops DONE with the loader actually operating as you would when loading. 

 

A good low end powder scale is the Frankford Arsenal (only about $30) and it is VERY necessary to good, safe reloading results.

 

good luck, GJ

I have a good scale, but I need to know where to start. I am thinking 13A or 13 Mec bushing #

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Look up the MEC powder bushing chart

 

As was recommended to you, you can START with this.  Google "MEC bushing chart" and you will find several.   None will be precisely accurate for you.  This is one of the things in reloading that you need to learn how to do, as you will probably do it often.

 

You did not tell us what loader you are using, which makes a big difference.  Progressive loaders that run several hulls at a time on a rotating shell plate will throw lighter weights than that SAME bushing installed in a single-stage press like the MEC 600 Jr MK V, because a single-stage press makes about 5 strokes of the handle between the time you drop each powder charge, packing the granules of powder into the bushing.

 

I have completely sworn off telling folks (especially folks just starting to load shotshells) bushing numbers because the RIGHT number depends on way too many variables. 

 

If you get used to throwing around bushing numbers when talking about loads, you do your own reputation and the safety of others a disservice. IMHO.  From loading shotshells for 50+ years.

 

My serious recommendation to you is: buy bushings in the range of 12 to 17, skipping the half intervals (the As).  That bunch will have the right one, most likely, and your scale will tell you which one.    Your next powder weight or powder type will require a different bushing, 9 times out of 10.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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10 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

As was recommended to you, you can START with this.  Google "MEC bushing chart" and you will find several.   None will be precisely accurate for you.  This is one of the things in reloading that you need to learn how to do, as you will probably do it often.

 

You did not tell us what loader you are using, which makes a big difference.  Progressive loaders that run several hulls at a time on a rotating shell plate will throw lighter weights than that SAME bushing installed in a single-stage press like the MEC 600 Jr MK V, because a single-stage press makes about 5 strokes of the handle between the time you drop each powder charge, packing the granules of powder into the bushing.

 

I have completely sworn off telling folks (especially folks just starting to load shotshells) bushing numbers because the RIGHT number depends on way too many variables. 

 

If you get used to throwing around bushing numbers when talking about loads, you do your own reputation and the safety of others a disservice. IMHO.  From loading shotshells for 50+ years.

 

My serious recommendation to you is: buy bushings in the range of 12 to 17, skipping the half intervals (the As).  That bunch will have the right one, most likely, and your scale will tell you which one.    Your next powder weight or powder type will require a different bushing, 9 times out of 10.

 

good luck, GJ

Loader is a Mec 9000G

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On 11/21/2023 at 12:57 AM, Mr Malco said:

does anyone know what Mec bushing will give you 13 or 14gr of Tightgroup

Try a 17… Tite Group is SIMILAR (NOT the same) to Clean Shot… with 7/8oz shot and Clean Shot that is 860-900FPS. 
 

Hugs,

Scarlett

 

PS test first. This came from a customer who is loading Clean Shot. 

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Yeah, and no, highly likely TiteGroup in a 17 bushing will drop a heavier weight than the highest of the range that the requester asked for.  The range I quoted covered what I thought was 1 bushing (more or less) above and below what the desired weight range was.

 

Oh, OK, I found the web site for Shooters World and see their "test data" that shows they say a MEC #21 bushing throws 17.3 grains of Clean Shot.   As explained before, that is generally not a highly accurate number, since they don't say what type of loader they used.  But, let's assume it is in the ballpark. 

 

A MEC # 21 bushing would drop WAY more weight of TiteGroup powder weight than it does CleanShot - perhaps about 20 grains.  Per the latest MEC bushing chart from Hodgdon.  So, not all that similar in density of the two powders.  Thus any bushing should throw about 15% heavier charges of TiteGroup than it drops CleanShot.   IF one wants to stick their neck out when comparing apples and oranges.

 

If you want to see that Hodgdon chart, look here:

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/mec.pdf

 

But usually the biggest error in trying to pin down a specific bushing number I covered earlier.  Drop weight for a powder from a bushing DEPENDS quite a bit on the machine, the operator's cadence, the powder lot number, and some other things.  So, a scale weight is the only way to get a good load put together.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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On 11/21/2023 at 12:57 AM, Mr Malco said:

does anyone know what Mec bushing will give you 13 or 14gr of Tightgroup

I checked it out and a #13 Mec bushing gives 12.9 - 13gr of Tightgroup. I also have a 13A bushing, but I haven't tried it yet, but I am guessing around 14gr

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Read, study, & memorize what Garrison Joe wrote above... They are words to live by, stay safe with and keep others safe.  While it's great that MEC and others have charts that approximate drop weights with specific bushings, they are only a rough guide.  Frankly, if testing several bushings to get the weight of a load correct is too complicated for you...  maybe you should stick with BUYING your ammo.  

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48 minutes ago, Griff said:

Frankly, if testing several bushings to get the weight of a load correct is too complicated for you...  maybe you should stick with BUYING your ammo.  

 

And we wonder why SASS is slowly dying??  :rolleyes:  Why would any new shooter stick around after receiving this kind of treatment?  Mr Malco has already provided information that he is testing.  He's clearly on the right track so why are we assuming that this is too complicated for him?  Since he already has a 9000, I'm betting that he has shotshell loading pretty well figured out and simply asked the original question in hopes of eliminating some unnecessary testing.  If that's wrong, then we're all guilty of it.

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15 minutes ago, Shawnee Hills said:

And we wonder why SASS is slowly dying??  :rolleyes:  Why would any new shooter stick around after receiving this kind of treatment?  Mr Malco has already provided information that he is testing.  He's clearly on the right track so why are we assuming that this is too complicated for him?  Since he already has a 9000, I'm betting that he has shotshell loading pretty well figured out and simply asked the original question in hopes of eliminating some unnecessary testing.  If that's wrong, then we're all guilty of it.

If this forum enjoys anything, it's a very wide audience...  Did I direct my comment to Mr. Malco?  No, I did not.  Others have chimed in on the subject.  Sugar coating facts doesn't do anyone any favors.  There are probably more readers of this topic, afraid to chime in that might need just such an admonishment.  Heck, I need reminding of the importance of such things from time to time.  We can all get complacent,  And reloading is one place where one should never become complacent.  Sorry I offended you.  

Edited by Griff
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On 11/21/2023 at 12:57 AM, Mr Malco said:

does anyone know what Mec bushing will give you 13 or 14gr of Tightgroup

I spoon all loads with Lee spoons for power and shot.  I see every charge, and it does not slow the process significantly.

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