Police procedure question (self defense)

[PowderRiverCowboy]

8 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

A civilized society has none of those things.

 

What you describe are how animals live.

Have you seen todays America , the liberal ran cities ??

 that being said In Iraq that driver would have had his skull canoed for coming at me so no I wouldnt be on top of that car it would have ended before that 

 

[Rip Snorter]

I actually saw this happen at a traffic stop decades back.  Driver accelerated toward an officer who was walking around the front of the car.  Surprised the heck out of me that a short, stocky less than athletic officer was able to spring onto the hood, keep his balance and draw.  The gun pointed through the windshield was enough to stop the action.  Several officers were present, no one fired, though in those days, it would not have been much of a legal risk for the officers.

[One Gun Jimmy]

28 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

A civilized society has none of those things.

 

What you describe are how animals live.

Plenty of places in the US ARE living like animals. 

 

Chicago

Detroit 

LA

Baltimore

Little Rock

Cleveland

St Loius 

 

All of these are in the "civilized" society of the US.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

57 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

A civilized society has none of those things.

 

What you describe are how animals live.

A civilized is civilized BECAUSE somebody has decided that the animals need to be caged or culled so that the society can remain civilized.

Remember the discussion about Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

9 hours ago, El Chapo said:

A civilized society has none of those things.

 

What you describe are how animals live.

And you think there aren’t vicious animals among us now??

Your notion of civilization is very uncivilized!!

Real civilization eliminates threats to the populace!

[El Chapo]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:50 AM, One Gun Jimmy said:

Plenty of places in the US ARE living like animals. 

 

Chicago

Detroit 

LA

Baltimore

Little Rock

Cleveland

St Loius 

 

All of these are in the "civilized" society of the US.

I don't consider those places all that civilized, but you can I guess.

[Texas Joker]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:45 PM, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

And you think there aren’t vicious animals among us now??

Your notion of civilization is very uncivilized!!

Real civilization eliminates threats to the populace!

Civilization is 3 meals deep.

 

There are 24 hours between what you will and won't do.

[Texas Maverick]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:38 AM, Henry T Harrison said:

Lesson #1 from the police academy and the department manual Never shoot at a moving vehicle.  All you are doing is turning it into an unguided missile 

This is also what we were taught in the Denver PD Academy. It was one that was drilled into our heads because in real life it would be hard to just watch them drive on.

 

TM

[One Gun Jimmy]

5 hours ago, El Chapo said:

I don't consider those places all that civilized, but you can I guess.

They are in the US....supposed to be civilized....know why they aren't?

 

Cause criminals run free, gun free zones, low punishment and early release.

 

Businesses are fleeing and the poor are left to fight for themselves....you know...like animals.

 

I do not understand your argument.

[Cowboy Small]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:18 AM, El Chapo said:

A civilized society has none of those things.

 

What you describe are how animals live.

I have a good friend that says "If you think you come from monkeys,  you're going to act like one. "

 

 

[El Chapo]

19 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

They are in the US....supposed to be civilized....know why they aren't?

 

Cause criminals run free, gun free zones, low punishment and early release.

 

Businesses are fleeing and the poor are left to fight for themselves....you know...like animals.

 

I do not understand your argument.

My argument is for decent people to stay out of places like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, among other places.  Don't go there, don't give them your money, and keep your family away from places like that.

[Rip Snorter]

Pretty simple.  Decided a while back, I won't go places where my permit isn't honored and when practical, I avoid buying from businesses based in Blue States.  

[Texas Maverick]

1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

My argument is for decent people to stay out of places like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, among other places.  Don't go there, don't give them your money, and keep your family away from places like that.

You forgot some of the worst like Chicago, LA, NYC and Detroit. I don't go to any of the blue states much less blue cities where you take you life into your hands while there. The biggest problem I am looking at right now is that we have had so many non-Texans invade us and now want to turn us blue and have a good foot hold here so it is possible in the future. When that happens my wife and I will be moving to another red state. We just don't know which one at this time. 

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

Pretty simple.  Decided a while back, I won't go places where my permit isn't honored and when practical, I avoid buying from businesses based in Blue States.  

Same here. If I can't pack heat I will not be going there. I believe in at least being able to try to defend myself from some crazy person.

 

TM

[One Gun Jimmy]

1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

My argument is for decent people to stay out of places like San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, among other places.  Don't go there, don't give them your money, and keep your family away from places like that.

Right...and trust me, stay far away from the blue debacle areas...but if they are just left to there own devices. They will spill over.

 

Ask California's bordering states how there housing markets are doing and what may be the cause of it. 

 

The mess created needs snuffed out, not just ignored.

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

5 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

The mess created needs snuffed out, not just ignored.

Unfortunately, the people that vote this type of thing into being don't pay attention at election time. They just look for the (d) behind a name and mark it.

[El Chapo]

23 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

Right...and trust me, stay far away from the blue debacle areas...but if they are just left to there own devices. They will spill over.

 

Ask California's bordering states how there housing markets are doing and what may be the cause of it. 

 

The mess created needs snuffed out, not just ignored.

 

 

The solution to this in our republican tradition is to run candidates who can actually beat these people.  Thus far, it looks like that is the greatest difficulty as the "other side" empowers these lawless degenerates by running people against them (predictably I might add) who cannot win.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

38 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

The solution to this in our republican tradition is to run candidates who can actually beat these people.  Thus far, it looks like that is the greatest difficulty as the "other side" empowers these lawless degenerates by running people against them (predictably I might add) who cannot win.

There are a couple problems to this approach. 

(1) Sometimes, like here in Tucson, as I mentioned in another thread, we are just plain outnumbered. Tucson runs about 3 to 1, dems vs. Rep. Even if EVERY Rep AND Ind vote, and only half of dems voted, we still lose. 

(2) Even if we do manage to get more votes, the other side cheats. 

[One Gun Jimmy]

1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

 

The solution to this in our republican tradition is to run candidates who can actually beat these people.  Thus far, it looks like that is the greatest difficulty as the "other side" empowers these lawless degenerates by running people against them (predictably I might add) who cannot win.

The political process is tainted by feelings and emotions.

 

If there were only facts allowed in campaigning, a modern day Democrat couldn't buy an election. 

 

It dosent matter the candidate anymore.

 

And in these blue hell holes the control the narrative, they control the information and information is POWER.

 

History is written by the winners and these cities and even states in some cases are a LOST CAUSE.

 

Chicago for example, it will take outside intervention, non PC, no limit, force to get this place in order.

 

20-50X the police with special exemption to prosecution to gonin and get ride of criminals and restore order including in the government building.

 

Problem is....this is a VERY VERY dangerous amount of power to give any ordinary men and what would have to be the government...so that's a no go.

 

What's the alternative? The new mayor of Chicago is somehow farther left and crazy dumb then the last one.

They are in an information bubble and done for as far as I can tell.

[El Chapo]

3 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

The political process is tainted by feelings and emotions.

 

If there were only facts allowed in campaigning, a modern day Democrat couldn't buy an election. 

 

It dosent matter the candidate anymore.

 

And in these blue hell holes the control the narrative, they control the information and information is POWER.

 

History is written by the winners and these cities and even states in some cases are a LOST CAUSE.

 

Chicago for example, it will take outside intervention, non PC, no limit, force to get this place in order.

 

20-50X the police with special exemption to prosecution to gonin and get ride of criminals and restore order including in the government building.

 

Problem is....this is a VERY VERY dangerous amount of power to give any ordinary men and what would have to be the government...so that's a no go.

 

What's the alternative? The new mayor of Chicago is somehow farther left and crazy dumb then the last one.

They are in an information bubble and done for as far as I can tell.

 

The alternative is the genius of our founders--federalism.  You live in Ohio.  You get zero say and have no reason to be concerned about how people choose to live in Chicago, which is in a state foreign to yours.

[One Gun Jimmy]

3 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

The alternative is the genius of our founders--federalism.  You live in Ohio.  You get zero say and have no reason to be concerned about how people choose to live in Chicago, which is in a state foreign to yours.

An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere.

 

The statement that I live somewhere so have no reason to care about other places is STUPID.

 

Am I from Chicago, do I have friends and family there? You have no idea do you. 

 

Also, Illinois isn't "foreign" to Ohio. Everything going on in Chicago can easily happen here.

Come up any time and I'll drop you in East Cleveland , you'll have till dark to make it out with your belongings and pray to God you don't take a wrong turn.

 

Stop in to the McDonald's to ask directions where you have to be buzzed in and speak thru speakers and 6inches of bullet proof glass....and hope you don't have to use a bathroom because there isn't a public one open in the whole city...well, guess you can piss on the sidewalk like the rest do.

 

The rot in these major cities should be a concern to anyone that cares about society and the right to live free and provide.

 

I get going to the woods and the hell with the rest, your choice and I don't hold it against you.

 

But this country travels around the globe sticking its nose in foreign affairs like there drive-thrus while cities RIGHT HERE rot and burn to the ground.

 

And how is Federalizm an "alternative" exactly?  The more that rolls around the less sence that makes.

[El Chapo]

16 hours ago, One Gun Jimmy said:

An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere.

 

The statement that I live somewhere so have no reason to care about other places is STUPID.

 

Am I from Chicago, do I have friends and family there? You have no idea do you. 

 

Also, Illinois isn't "foreign" to Ohio. Everything going on in Chicago can easily happen here.

Come up any time and I'll drop you in East Cleveland , you'll have till dark to make it out with your belongings and pray to God you don't take a wrong turn.

 

Stop in to the McDonald's to ask directions where you have to be buzzed in and speak thru speakers and 6inches of bullet proof glass....and hope you don't have to use a bathroom because there isn't a public one open in the whole city...well, guess you can piss on the sidewalk like the rest do.

 

The rot in these major cities should be a concern to anyone that cares about society and the right to live free and provide.

 

I get going to the woods and the hell with the rest, your choice and I don't hold it against you.

 

But this country travels around the globe sticking its nose in foreign affairs like there drive-thrus while cities RIGHT HERE rot and burn to the ground.

 

And how is Federalizm an "alternative" exactly?  The more that rolls around the less sence that makes.

 

It might be stupid, but it is part of the genius of our founders that the states are foreign to each other.  The United States was founded on this idea, that we are a limited federation of independent, separate, sovereign states that gave very limited power to one national government only for issues of national importance.  Other than that, the States govern themselves separately.

 

You can save me the speech about where you're "from."  Both of my parents are from Chicago and I will always regard Illinois as my home state.  I voted with my feet and left, much for the concerns underlying your complaint.  Virtually all of my friends and family live there.  But I am not a citizen of Illinois and it is a feature, not a bug, that I have a 0% say in how they govern themselves. Illinois is as foreign to my state as Mexico is.

 

The rot in cities where I have zero role or influence in changing them is not something I spend time worrying about.  It is a local issue for their citizens to handle.  Just as I am not going to be nosying into Ohio politics, you have no business nosying yourself into Illinois politics.  Our system is set up for them to rise or fail on their own.  It looks to me, and you likely agree, that they have continued down the degenerative path that they were on ~14 years ago when I left.  The genius of federalism is that while I have zero say in fixing it, I also can choose not to go there and not suffer the consequences.  The genius of our founders' idea, this federalism, is that the citizens of Illinois can decide to use their state for a little laboratory for stupid policies.  We all know how well that is working for them.  But their experiment also stops at their borders.

 

Federalism was the alternative to an absolute sovereign monarch that we had before the American revolution, one where a single man, the King, ruled over our entire country.

 

The radical left wants to make America into one "country" so they can undermine our ability to have local control over how we live.  They want to move all the power to Washington so you can't hold your politicians accountable.  If that were to happen, it would be the worst thing that ever happened to this country.  Federalism is why our constitution has survived for over 200 years--because the powers of our national government are limited, and power is separated and kept local where governments are more accountable.

 

You can think it's "stupid" if you want.  I think it's genius.  And I'm quite confident that when we're both dead and gone, federalism will continue to be an important part of how we, as sovereign people, govern ourselves and hold our public officials accountable.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:56 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

Unfortunately in today's world it depends on the DA and their political leanings.

Yep. Why I left the day I was eligible 

[Rip Snorter]

Nothing new except scale.  In the late 60's, one of the judges was an anti police lefty.  He let all sorts of crims off.  Fortunately, he was also slow.  Every so often a Judge from the northern part of the state would come down and clear the backlog.  When he was on the bench there were always off duty officers in the courtroom.