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Uberti El Patron Retractable Firing Pin


Ashley D Austin
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I have a set of Uberti El Patron pistols that fail to fire at least once in every match when I shoot fast, sometimes once or twice a station, which is very frustrating.

Other shooters, trying to be helpful offered; my thumb was in the way, I was short stroking the hammer, the spring was too soft to detonate the primer. All of these could be, but are not the problem.

 

Uberti has designed a safety into the pistols, that allows the pistol to safely hold six rounds which SASS does not allow, that requires the trigger to held back all the way or the pistol will not fire-hence the problem when shooting fast.  https://www.uberti-usa.com/news/uberti-adds-retractable-firing-pin-to-1873-cattleman-revolvers

 

I am thinking of replacing the hammer with the retractable firing pin with a hammer with a fixed firing pin that is offered by Taylor. Has anyone else tried this? Were there any problems? Or, has anyone found other fixes to this problem?

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Ashley D Austin...

Yes, Uberti has gone overboard in implementing a bunch of safeties in all of their guns. I urge you to replace both the trigger and hammer with a standard non-safety trigger and hammer. It is a straight swap. You can get them from VTI Gun Parts (www.vtigunparts.com). I can post pictures if you want to see what they look like.

RR

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As RR stated, new hammers are the way to go. 

 

Some of our more knowledgeable (and frugal) cowboys, however, have replaced the retractable pin behind the firing pin with a longer solid pin that lets the firing pins operate as normal firing pins. Other shooters who have made this conversion might want to chime in here.

 

Fortunately, the couple pair of Ubertis I own, have regular firing pins. 

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ADA...

Here are the two trigger/hammer systems side by side. The one on the left is the Uberti (original Colt-style) non-safety hammer and trigger. The one on the right are the Uberti hammer and trigger with safety mechanism. The long vertical extension on the trigger at the 11:00 0'clock position pushes up on the pin that is protruding from the bottom of the hammer at the 5:00 o'clock position. When the trigger is all the way back, and the hammer drops forward, the long protrusion on the trigger pushes up on the pin in the hammer which, in turn, pushes forward on the firing pin, and - hopefully - the pistol goes BANG!

 

Uberti's gunsmith did a very clever design job. Unfortunately, the safety is very iffy, the mechanism is clunky, and the pistol doesn't always go BANG!  :(

 

Swap them out!

 

RR

Uberti safe&non safe hammers sm.jpg

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1 hour ago, Ashley D Austin said:

Why does the trigger also need to be changed?

Ashley

Ok, I see that the trigger also needs to be changed, thank you for sending the photos and explanation.

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Wouldn't it be possible to just cut off the long vertical extension on the trigger and just buy the hammer?

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2 hours ago, Roger Rapid said:

Ashley D Austin...

Yes, Uberti has gone overboard in implementing a bunch of safeties in all of their guns. I urge you to replace both the trigger and hammer with a standard non-safety trigger and hammer. It is a straight swap. You can get them from VTI Gun Parts (www.vtigunparts.com). I can post pictures if you want to see what they look like.

RR

The hammer is MUCH less expensive from Taylors.  I don't know how they do that, but they do.  Currently in stock.

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When Uberti came out with that piece of crap safety retractable firing pin...they became the best sales force Pietta and Ruger could have hoped for

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I have a Uberti Cattleman, Taylor's, and I've had no problems with it at all. It's not my main gun, I use Colts. I put about 200 rounds through it and my son has it now. He's shot it a few times with no issues at all!

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I am glad to read you are not having any problems with your Cattleman. Taylor's. I am not sure why, the problem could have started at the factory or along the way at the importers, but my new El Patron Competitions, imported by Stoeger, have been having issues right out of the box. From the start the two pieces handled differently, both were supposed to have Wolf springs and when we checked they had factury springs of different tensions (one was curved and one was almost straight).   I emaled Uberti about the springs over a month ago and have not received a reply. Then, when ever I shot fast there is at least one miss fire per match. At my last match it happened once per station - extremely fustrating!!! They are nice pieces and I do enjoy using them and am glad both issues are fixable, but these issues should never have occured and the warrenty will be void when the pieces are swapped out.

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50 minutes ago, Ashley D Austin said:

I am glad to read you are not having any problems with your Cattleman. Taylor's. I am not sure why, the problem could have started at the factory or along the way at the importers, but my new El Patron Competitions, imported by Stoeger, have been having issues right out of the box. From the start the two pieces handled differently, both were supposed to have Wolf springs and when we checked they had factury springs of different tensions (one was curved and one was almost straight).   I emaled Uberti about the springs over a month ago and have not received a reply. Then, when ever I shot fast there is at least one miss fire per match. At my last match it happened once per station - extremely fustrating!!! They are nice pieces and I do enjoy using them and am glad both issues are fixable, but these issues should never have occured and the warrenty will be void when the pieces are swapped out.

A friend of mine who recently got into cowboy shooting bought two Taylor's Smokewagons with the retractable firing pin. One failed to fire a few times he sent it back to Taylor's and they fixed it. The other started doing the same thing and he wound up sending that one back. He's had no problems since. I guess it's who has the better service, Taylor's has pretty good service. I don't know about Uberti USA/Stoeger.

 

 

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I had issues as well. There are several parts that work together to make it all happen, and they are not made precise enough. I replaced the parts and it all works now. IMHOP a very poor design. 

 

There are work arounds, and they have been illustrated here. basically the movable pin can be turned so the ramp faces rearward. then the firing pin is fixed. 

 

Alternately I suppose some sort of spacer behind the firing pin would do the same thing. 

 

A Ruger transfer bar is also attached to the trigger, but it is a solid attachment. The Uberti pin hits the trigger and if it's sticky or has any interference you can feel it in your finger. 

 

20220802_201222.thumb.jpg.0ad022ee246905881e35d13b17f40cf7.jpg 20220802_201251.thumb.jpg.b3fbfbeba9c070a9fa75a9001b08d5a7.jpg

 

Proper operation is too dependent on the ramp on the firing pin and rod mating properly. 

 

Search on this forum for the work around. 

 

BB

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You certainly can do the conversion, but be aware that the problems you mentioned might not all be the fault of the retractable firing pin.

 

I have two Cattleman II revolvers, one of which I did the conversion and the other one I left stock.  Very rarely I have a FTF during a match, and it has happened with each of the revolvers.  The conversion to the four-click hammer system might help, but it might not completely eliminate FTF.

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28 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

You certainly can do the conversion, but be aware that the problems you mentioned might not all be the fault of the retractable firing pin.

 

I have two Cattleman II revolvers, one of which I did the conversion and the other one I left stock.  Very rarely I have a FTF during a match, and it has happened with each of the revolvers.  The conversion to the four-click hammer system might help, but it might not completely eliminate FTF.

Hi Diamond Jake,

 

I spoke to my gunsmith and he felt if I converted to the four click hammer system the action might be rough and need to be slicked. My El Patrons are well broken in and i am concerned they will be stiff, like new pieces, if I convert. Did you find this when you converted yours?

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The conversion kits might require minor fitting or timing adjustments, from one gun to another.  I put the kit into my Stoeger import Cattleman first, and it was a bit sticky and gritty.  So I took it out and put in in my Cimarron and it was much smoother.  So I guess it's back to the standard response "it depends".

 

Having said all this, I think I'll take the standard hammer and trigger from my Uberti Model P and put it in my Stoeger match revolver...keeping the Model P (with the Stoeger's retracting firing pin) as a backup.

Edited by Diamond Jake
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Ashley,

 

Regretfully, almost all Uberti or Pietta parts will need some fitting.  Any decent gunsmith who knows his/her way around Colt style single actions should not have a problem fitting these parts.  If you need recommendations of someone good in your area, this group will gladly hook you up.  

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I've done this conversion on an Uberti Jesse. You can use the same trigger, you just need to grind that arm off the trigger. Saved a few bucks. But I wanted a completely blue pistol (I hate color case hardening) so I bought a blued hammer from EMF, and I had to file a tiny bit of the new firing pin off so it wouldnt sit too proud or puncture the primers.

Edited by JackSlade
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On 8/1/2022 at 8:37 AM, Ashley D Austin said:

I have a set of Uberti El Patron pistols that fail to fire at least once in every match when I shoot fast, sometimes once or twice a station, which is very frustrating.

Other shooters, trying to be helpful offered; my thumb was in the way, I was short stroking the hammer, the spring was too soft to detonate the primer. All of these could be, but are not the problem.

 

Uberti has designed a safety into the pistols, that allows the pistol to safely hold six rounds which SASS does not allow, that requires the trigger to held back all the way or the pistol will not fire-hence the problem when shooting fast.  https://www.uberti-usa.com/news/uberti-adds-retractable-firing-pin-to-1873-cattleman-revolvers

 

I am thinking of replacing the hammer with the retractable firing pin with a hammer with a fixed firing pin that is offered by Taylor. Has anyone else tried this? Were there any problems? Or, has anyone found other fixes to this problem?

Buy Rugers

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On 8/9/2022 at 7:38 AM, JackSlade said:

EMF,

I just looked up EMF and being relatively new to CAS was pleasantly surprised to read about the EMF Company's history and involvement in the founding of SASS. I also recognized from the offering on their site many of the pieces our club members use.

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7 hours ago, Ashley D Austin said:

I just looked up EMF

Yeah general rule of thumb is EMF for Pietta parts, Taylor's/VTI for Uberti Parts. Although there is some overlap for certain things, between those two sites, you should be covered for any factory replacement part of almost every Italian clone.

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