1851 Navy Replicas (Pietta) and Loading Off the Gun

[Bisley Joe]

I was thinking of loading my Navy replica cylinders off the gun, and leaving the loading levers off of them.

Anyone do this and has any advice?

I was thinking of building a small reloading jig so I can load multiple cylinders of the Navy. Maybe later do so also with a Remington.

[Slapshot]

https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/quick-6-revolver-loading-stand/

[Bisley Joe]

1 hour ago, Slapshot said:

https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/quick-6-revolver-loading-stand/

Thank you!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

https://bangandclangllc.com/tower-loading-stand/

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I've been loading "off the gun" forever.  I Shoot SNUBBIES as my match guns and only leave a stub of the loading assembly for balance weight.  Unless you prefer the reduced weight without the loading assembly, there is no reason to remove it.  I can highly recommend loading Cap Gun cylinders "off the gun."

[Bisley Joe]

7 hours ago, Slapshot said:

https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/quick-6-revolver-loading-stand/

Thanks!

6 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

https://bangandclangllc.com/tower-loading-stand/

 

Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I've been loading "off the gun" forever.  I Shoot SNUBBIES as my match guns and only leave a stub of the loading assembly for balance weight.  Unless you prefer the reduced weight without the loading assembly, there is no reason to remove it.  I can highly recommend loading Cap Gun cylinders "off the gun."

Thanks!

[Bisley Joe]

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I've been loading "off the gun" forever.  I Shoot SNUBBIES as my match guns and only leave a stub of the loading assembly for balance weight.  Unless you prefer the reduced weight without the loading assembly, there is no reason to remove it.  I can highly recommend loading Cap Gun cylinders "off the gun."

Do you shoot Navies? Seems like a pain to remove and replace cylinders on those compared to the Remingtons.

New to the Navy revolvers so have to experience it.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yes, it can be seen as a hassle.

The flip side is that you can clean off the cylinder face, run a snake thru the bore, wipe the fouling off the revolver's water table, brush off the nipples, and get easy consistent loads.

I've been doing this for 20+ years.

Whether you shoot Colts, Remmies, or ROAs, a good cylinder loader is a wise investment, IMHO.

My advice is to get a QUALITY cylinder loader, like the Powder inc model [https://powderinc.com/shop/]

or Dick Dastardly's Tower of Power [http://www.biglube.com/howto.aspx]

Don't buy one of the cheapies.

--Dawg

[Bisley Joe]

1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Yes, it can be seen as a hassle.

The flip side is that you can clean off the cylinder face, run a snake thru the bore, wipe the fouling off the revolver's water table, brush off the nipples, and get easy consistent loads.

I've been doing this for 20+ years.

Whether you shoot Colts, Remmies, or ROAs, a good cylinder loader is a wise investment, IMHO.

My advice is to get a QUALITY cylinder loader, like the Powder inc model [https://powderinc.com/shop/]

or Dick Dastardly's Tower of Power [http://www.biglube.com/howto.aspx]

Don't buy one of the cheapies.

--Dawg

Great advice!

Thank you!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

First Step is to FIT the wedge so it can be tapped out with a light tap (Plastic screwdriver handle) and replaced with Thumb Pressure.  The rest is actually quite quick.

 

OOPS:  Yes.  My Cap Guns are built on Pietta .44 Navies (yea, never never)

[Bisley Joe]

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

First Step is to FIT the wedge so it can be tapped out with a light tap (Plastic screwdriver handle) and replaced with Thumb Pressure.  The rest is actually quite quick.

 

OOPS:  Yes.  My Cap Guns are built on Pietta .44 Navies (yea, never never)

Makes sense.

I’ve seen a lot of people put those wedges in like they’re driving railroad spikes. They get all marred up. 
That never made sense.

 

Going to work on having the wedges tap out easy like you said.

[Lucky R. K.]

Here is a stand I made a few years ago. I made three different pilots where the cylinder pivots. One for '51's, one for Old Armies, and one for '58's. To change pivots,

 

The diameters do not make enough difference to affect loading.

Lucky

Messy but I hope you get the idea.

 

[Griff]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:02 PM, Bisley Joe said:

Thank you!

Although... as point of grammar, we don't "load" the cylinders until we're at the loading table.  You can however, "CHARGE" each chamber of the cylinder with powder, lube or lube-wad, & ball howsomever & wheresoever you may wish. 

 

And, if you load rifle & shotshell ammo with BP or a qualifying sub, you can shoot in Frontiersman... which is a single handed shooting category.  Some places even offer Cap & Ball Gunfighter... for double your fun!  But, if you're the weak hearted type, you can fire your cap guns in any category and any shooting style allowed therein.  

[Pee Wee #15785]

I won't say what is right or wrong when loading a cap gun.  Some are faster and safer off the gun and some are not.  You start shooting and learn what works for you.  From what I have read most pistols used a paper cartage during the States Rights Dispute (Political correct??).  The Navy was loaded with about 18 gr of black.  If you smoke the spoters enough they have no idea if you hit or missed the target so you hit. 

[Bisley Joe]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Although... as point of grammar, we don't "load" the cylinders until we're at the loading table.  You can however, "CHARGE" each chamber of the cylinder with powder, lube or lube-wad, & ball howsomever & wheresoever you may wish. 

 

And, if you load rifle & shotshell ammo with BP or a qualifying sub, you can shoot in Frontiersman... which is a single handed shooting category.  Some places even offer Cap & Ball Gunfighter... for double your fun!  But, if you're the weak hearted type, you can fire your cap guns in any category and any shooting style allowed therein.  

Thank you for the clarification. It would be unpleasant, I imagine, to have a capped chamber go off because of bumping or dropping it.

 

 

 

And yes, I used to load my shotgun and pistol/rifle ammo with black powder. It’s the best experience! LOVE IT!

[Bisley Joe]

1 minute ago, Pee Wee #15785 said:

I won't say what is right or wrong when loading a cap gun.  Some are faster and safer off the gun and some are not.  You start shooting and learn what works for you.  From what I have read most pistols used a paper cartage during the States Rights Dispute (Political correct??).  The Navy was loaded with about 18 gr of black.  If you smoke the spoters enough they have no idea if you hit or missed the target so you hit. 

It would be funny to find a way to make the black powder deliver even more smoke than standard!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

5 minutes ago, Bisley Joe said:

It would be funny to find a way to make the black powder deliver even more smoke than standard!

 

If using real BP, use a larger grain of powder or more than 15 g.

 

Many of the subs are denser than real BP on a grain by grain comparison, and thus appear smokier.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE for Branchwater -

 

Load for Equal load, APP makes more smoke than traditional Black.

[Bisley Joe]

9 hours ago, Lucky R. K. said:

Here is a stand I made a few years ago. I made three different pilots where the cylinder pivots. One for '51's, one for Old Armies, and one for '58's. To change pivots,

 

The diameters do not make enough difference to affect loading.

Lucky

Messy but I hope you get the idea.

 

Messy?

That looks great!

[Bisley Joe]

I’m thinking: what if I remove the loading levers off the Navies, and make something to attach one of the levers to? Something that can be carried in a saddle bag. Like a mini loader. 
 

just thinking.

[Bisley Joe]

Any recommendations for ball size in Pietta 1851 Navy 36? I believe it should be .375, but not 100% sure.

Any recommendations on best place to get the molds for round ball? Black Powder? Wads?

 

PS, also lead. Going to look at a few tire shops and see what they say. Have heard some are using zinc now.

 

I just ordered the cap maker contraption with the ingredients to prime the caps and setting up to shoot my Navies.

 

Thanks.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:38 PM, Pee Wee #15785 said:

...  If you smoke the spoters enough they have no idea if you hit or missed the target so you hit. 

When I shoot BP, I usually start out with a statement to the posse like "remember, if you can't see the target you can't call a miss!"  It usually doesn't work. 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Powder inc is now taking backorders for Swiss

 

https://powderinc.com/

 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

The rule of thumb has always been:

36 caliber Pietta--375.    Uberti--380

44 caliber  Pietta 451.    Uberti 454.    Ruger 457

--Dawg

[Griff]

And yet for 35+ years I've shot .375 out of my Uberti 1851s.  three 2nd Gen Colt, one Signature Series, and one ASM assembled of Uberti parts (left overs from the Colt 2nd Gen run).   

[Bisley Joe]

On 5/7/2022 at 4:41 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I've been loading "off the gun" forever.  I Shoot SNUBBIES as my match guns and only leave a stub of the loading assembly for balance weight.  Unless you prefer the reduced weight without the loading assembly, there is no reason to remove it.  I can highly recommend loading Cap Gun cylinders "off the gun."

I just saw this.

you probably already know about it, but just in case:  https://www.slixprings.com/proddetail.php?prod=SliX-Hand

 

I like how the Navies look without the loading lever on. They look even slimmer.

I may go that route: get one of those loaders you all recommended, and maybe make a small one that fits in a saddle bag out of the oem lever and screws. 

[Bisley Joe]

I was reading that the Pietta takes .375 round ball. Would I still be able to use balls from a .380 mold? I've heard it don and seems ok with soft lead.

Advice?

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yes, a slightly larger ball works fine.
The problem with undersized balls is that sometimes they move forward from recoil, cuz hey are not tight enuf in the chambers, which can cause ignition problems or tie up the gun.

--Dawg

[Bisley Joe]

8 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Yes, a slightly larger ball works fine.
The problem with undersized balls is that sometimes they move forward from recoil, cuz hey are not tight enuf in the chambers, which can cause ignition problems or tie up the gun.

--Dawg

Thanks!

I just ordered a .380 buckshot mold that casts 16 balls at a time. Now I have to find lead and powder!

The lead melting pot will be a thrift store pot on either an old single electric burner, or the gas burner from the turkey fryer contraption.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

If you're going to be melting wheel weights into ingots, a good lead thermometer will be your friend.

 

It will help you keep the temp down to where it is hot enough to melt the lead, but cold enough to not melt the zinc.

[Bisley Joe]

3 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

If you're going to be melting wheel weights into ingots, a good lead thermometer will be your friend.

 

It will help you keep the temp down to where it is hot enough to melt the lead, but cold enough to not melt the zinc.

Thank you!

 

[Eyesa Horg]

16 hours ago, Bisley Joe said:

Thanks!

I just ordered a .380 buckshot mold that casts 16 balls at a time. Now I have to find lead and powder!

The lead melting pot will be a thrift store pot on either an old single electric burner, or the gas burner from the turkey fryer contraption.

My .36 uses .375 balls.

Check with some plumbers for some old lead pipe or a scrap yard. You want pure soft lead. Wheel weights these days have antimony and zinc in them, some are not lead at all. It doesn't take much lead pipe to make a lot of balls.

The last time I got some, it was a small pile of old drains with brass flanges. Once melted down, I ended up with 148 pounds of lead and quite a bit of brass for my scrap pile. Good Luck

[Bisley Joe]

13 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

My .36 uses .375 balls.

Check with some plumbers for some old lead pipe or a scrap yard. You want pure soft lead. Wheel weights these days have antimony and zinc in them, some are not lead at all. It doesn't take much lead pipe to make a lot of balls.

The last time I got some, it was a small pile of old drains with brass flanges. Once melted down, I ended up with 148 pounds of lead and quite a bit of brass for my scrap pile. Good Luck

I asked my neighbor teacher (construction class) about the lead. His brother in law is a plumber, so hopefully I'll get some lead. Will also check scrap yards. Thank you.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Another reason to make friends with a plumber is that old showers had a lead pan under the floor.

Scrap folks sometimes get the lead lining id old dentist's offices that get torn down.

--Dawg

[Eyesa Horg]

I've also heard, but don't know how to get, that Dentists and x- ray labs change out those heavy blankets they put over you during an x-ray. They are lead as well.