Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 (edited) Tell me that that you haven't been there before... Edited July 31 by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Added missing title 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 BWJ....... another good video. One question: If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw 1 miss". As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss" Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss" To says..... "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit". Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind". Here is the question: Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO now override that spotters vote? Thanks! ..........Widder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Creek Jack Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 11 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: BWJ....... another good video. One question: If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw 1 miss". As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss" Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss" To says..... "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit". Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind". Here is the question: Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO now override that spotters vote? Thanks! ..........Widder I don’t as a TO override a spotters assertion that he called a miss. SCJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Creek Jack Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 And yes another good video, keep em. Coming BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 If the 2 spotters won't change their call even after being shown the hit on the edge , it's one miss. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 I will directly quote the ROI here Quote - The TO does not have the authority to overrule the spotters regarding misses but can question spotters as to the location of misses. (The TO is often in the best position to see the direction of the muzzle, which is helpful in determining edge hits. - Final assessment of penalties (not misses) is made by the TO. If, after all of your discussion with the spotters, you still have two spotters calling for one miss, the TO does not have the authority to override that. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 17 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: BWJ....... another good video. One question: If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw 1 miss". As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss" Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss" To says..... "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit". Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind". Here is the question: Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO now override that spotters vote? Thanks! ..........Widder You can't. You can ask that the spotters discuss what they saw. But the majority wins...period. Phantom 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter. You might want to rethink that P part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter. You have the functions kinda correct...but I'm going to focus on the sentence that I put in bold for a bit more clarification. Yes, the three spotters DO make the ultimate call on how many Misses to apply, but are you saying that as a T.O. that you never prompt the spotters to discuss what they saw? Phantom PS: Only the T.O. can assign a "P". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 3 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. SASS ROI Quote The TO is often in the best position to see the direction of the muzzle, which is helpful in determining edge hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 (edited) On 7/30/2021 at 6:11 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said: ... One question: If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw 1 miss". ... ** IMO ** ...At that point, the spotter has negated the "1 miss" call by his own admission. The T/O dismissing that spotter's count is not considered "overriding" it. REF: RO1 p.27 Edited August 1 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L clarify personal opinion 9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 3 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter. 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: You have the functions kinda correct...but I'm going to focus on the sentence that I put in bold for a bit more clarification. Yes, the three spotters DO make the ultimate call on how many Misses to apply, but are you saying that as a T.O. that you never prompt the spotters to discuss what they saw? Phantom PS: Only the T.O. can assign a "P". But, the TO should consider input from the spotters on penalties besides misses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 20 minutes ago, Griff said: But, the TO should consider input from the spotters on penalties besides misses. I think you misunderstood my comment regarding a "P". Any Stage official can call a "P"...the T.O. assigns the "P". Yeah, this has been brought up 15 Zillion times. If I, or any other T.O. doesn't understand this, they should not be T.O'ing. Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Phanborg.. we're in agreement here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Any Stage official can call a "P"...the T.O. assigns the "P". Basically what I was meaning in my last sentence, just said a lot clearer by Phantom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 PWB. THANKS! That is the answer I was looking for. Seems like all the other posters may have overlooked my emphasis on the spotter who only states he "THINKS" he saw a miss. Soooooo, when that spotter is not SURE of the miss, the TO is not overriding his duties by dismissing that spotters call. I hope everyone reads your post. Thanks again. ..........Widder 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 54 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Seems like all the other posters may have overlooked my emphasis on the spotter who only states he "THINKS" he saw a miss. I need to teach you how to be less subtle... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 56 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I need to teach you how to be less subtle... Well, if anyone can do it.... 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I need to teach you how to be less subtle... I'm eager to learn from the MasterBorg. ..........Widder 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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