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WTC? 2 Blind Mice


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BWJ....... another good video.

 

One question:   If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw

1 miss".

 

As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss"

 

Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss"

 

To says.....  "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit".

 

Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind".

 

 Here is the question: 

Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO

now override that spotters vote?

 

Thanks!

 

..........Widder

 

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11 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

BWJ....... another good video.

 

One question:   If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw

1 miss".

 

As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss"

 

Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss"

 

To says.....  "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit".

 

Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind".

 

 Here is the question: 

Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO

now override that spotters vote?

 

Thanks!

 

..........Widder

 

I don’t as a TO override a spotters assertion that he called a miss. SCJ

 

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I will directly quote the ROI here

 

Quote

- The TO does not have the authority to overrule the spotters regarding misses but can question spotters as to the location of misses. (The TO is often in the best position to see the direction of the muzzle, which is helpful in determining edge hits. 

- Final assessment of penalties (not misses) is made by the TO.  

 

If, after all of your discussion with the spotters, you still have two spotters calling for one miss, the TO does not have the authority to override that.

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17 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

BWJ....... another good video.

 

One question:   If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw

1 miss".

 

As the TO, you ask...." are you sure you saw a miss or do you think you saw a miss"

 

Spotter says..... "I'm pretty darn sure I saw 1 miss"

 

To says.....  "You gotta be SURE it was a miss or else its a hit".

 

Spotter stick to his original assessment and say..... "Oh, I pretty sure it was a miss and I ain't changing my mind".

 

 Here is the question: 

Based on the spotters unsurety of the miss and refusal to change his 1 miss, do YOU, as the TO

now override that spotters vote?

 

Thanks!

 

..........Widder

 

You can't.

 

You can ask that the spotters discuss what they saw.

 

But the majority wins...period.

 

Phantom

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First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter.

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1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter.

You might want to rethink that P part.  

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1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter.

You have the functions kinda correct...but I'm going to focus on the sentence that I put in bold for a bit more clarification.

 

Yes, the three spotters DO make the ultimate call on how many Misses to apply, but are you saying that as a T.O. that you never prompt the spotters to discuss what they saw?

 

Phantom

PS: Only the T.O. can assign a "P".

 

 

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3 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too.

 

SASS ROI

Quote

The TO is often in the best position to see the direction of the muzzle, which is helpful in determining edge hits. 

 

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On 7/30/2021 at 6:11 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

...

One question:   If you are the TO, and 2 spotters call a miss, BUT..... one of those spotters says.... "I think I saw

1 miss".
...


 

** IMO **

...At that point, the spotter has negated the "1 miss" call by his own admission.
The T/O dismissing that spotter's count is not considered "overriding" it.

REF: RO1 p.27

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
clarify personal opinion
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3 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

First off all the clubs I shoot at have 3 spotters per shooter, not counting the TO, so you don't have a tie vote problem. Secondly as a TO my job is to run the timer, watch the shooter, watch the firearms, and count the rounds being fired. You can't do all that and watch targets too. After the shooter completes the stage I give the time. I let the 3 spotters determine hits and misses. If there is a P I get the explanation from the spotters and pass it along to the shooter.

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You have the functions kinda correct...but I'm going to focus on the sentence that I put in bold for a bit more clarification.

 

Yes, the three spotters DO make the ultimate call on how many Misses to apply, but are you saying that as a T.O. that you never prompt the spotters to discuss what they saw?

 

Phantom

PS: Only the T.O. can assign a "P".

 

But, the TO should consider input from the spotters on penalties besides misses.

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20 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

But, the TO should consider input from the spotters on penalties besides misses.

I think you misunderstood my comment regarding a "P".

 

Any Stage official can call a "P"...the T.O. assigns the "P". Yeah, this has been brought up 15 Zillion times. If I, or any other T.O. doesn't understand this, they should not be T.O'ing.

 

Phantom

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Phanborg.. we're in agreement here...;)

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PWB.      THANKS!

 

That is the answer I was looking for.     Seems like all the other posters may have overlooked my

emphasis on the spotter who only states he "THINKS" he saw a miss.

 

Soooooo, when that spotter is not SURE of the miss, the TO is not overriding his duties by

dismissing that spotters call.

 

I hope everyone reads your post.   Thanks again.

 

..........Widder

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Seems like all the other posters may have overlooked my

emphasis on the spotter who only states he "THINKS" he saw a miss.

I need to teach you how to be less subtle...

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56 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I need to teach you how to be less subtle...

 

 

Well, if anyone can do it....

 

:D

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I need to teach you how to be less subtle...

 

I'm eager to learn from the MasterBorg.

:D

 

..........Widder

 

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