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Why Four + Shotgun Requirement


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1 hour ago, Diamond Jake said:

OK, back to the original post.

 

If the stage instructions said 4+, and he knocked them all down with less that 4 shots, does he have to fire more "empty" shots to keep clean?

 

I don't know if I'll ever place this situation personally, but as a shooter with still less than 10 matches under my belt, I want to know.

The answer is yes. Shot min. requirement is 4.

 

That means you need 4 big bangs or you're no good.

 

Phantom

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2 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

OK, back to the original post.

 

If the stage instructions said 4+, and he knocked them all down with less that 4 shots, does he have to fire more "empty" shots to keep clean?

 

I don't know if I'll ever place this situation personally, but as a shooter with still less than 10 matches under my belt, I want to know.

When a stage is written it has a round count listed.

You must fire that number of rounds out of that type of gun. Anything less will be counted as an unfired round and be scored as a miss.

If the round count for a gun has a + after it, it means that you may fire more than the number of rounds normally required. (Usually to make up for misses)

If the round count DOES NOT have a + behind it then you MAY NOT fire more rounds than stated.

If you look at page 13 of the Shooters Handbook under Stage Conventions - All shotgun knockdown targets may be reengaged until down.

This is why you will almost always find the shotgun round count written as X+ rounds. 

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2 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

OK, back to the original post.

 

If the stage instructions said 4+, and he knocked them all down with less that 4 shots, does he have to fire more "empty" shots to keep clean?

 

I don't know if I'll ever place this situation personally, but as a shooter with still less than 10 matches under my belt, I want to know.

When a stage is written it has a round count listed.

You must fire that number of rounds out of that type of gun. Anything less will be counted as an unfired round and be scored as a miss.

If the round count for a gun has a + after it, it means that you may fire more than the number of rounds normally required. (Usually to make up for misses)

If the round count DOES NOT have a + behind it then you MAY NOT fire more rounds than stated.

If you look at page 13 of the Shooters Handbook under Stage Conventions - All shotgun knockdown targets may be reengaged until down.

This is why you will almost always find the shotgun round count written as X+ rounds. 

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2 hours ago, Chantry said:

Not if every shooter doesn't have to fire the same minimum number of shots. 

 

Do I think being able to knock down 2 or more shotgun targets would be fun, certainly, but I don't think it is something we would want to see at a state level match or above and I think it will frustrate far more shooters than it will please.

I’ll disagree with you on the last part. From my experience those that try it like it and see it as an additional level of challenge. 

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OK , so dump an extra round when not needed - i have shells , i was thinking of those that didnt , who knows ? maybe they will become plentiful and cheap as they always were , if not - i dont care much , i have a good supply , i was thinking of those that dont - shoot the round count , om good with that 

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4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 Normal spread is between targets is 6 feet.

Since when did they say that SG targets have to social distance?

 

And trying to knock down multiples with one shot adds some fun to the game. (It's still a game, right?) I put it right there with pop ups.

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4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 Normal spread is between targets is 6 feet.

I must be stuttering....

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1 hour ago, Hendo said:

Since when did they say that SG targets have to social distance?

 

And trying to knock down multiples with one shot adds some fun to the game. (It's still a game, right?) I put it right there with pop ups.

No...actually, it's a competition. You want games??? Go the range with your buddies and play some cowboy games.

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

No...actually, it's a competition. You want games??? Go the range with your buddies and play some cowboy games.

 

Phantom

I'll try and keep that in mind the next time I'm at a baseball competition.

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8 hours ago, Hendo said:

I'll try and keep that in mind the next time I'm at a baseball competition.

So when you go to the Baseball Game...are they competing...or is it just a "Game"?

 

You can try and wiggle out of the intent of your post...I couldn't care less. Take the timer out of your stages and tell everyone that you're just "Playing a Game"...just like the Baseball players are just "Playing a Game".

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I couldn't care less.

Apparently you could.

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40 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Apparently you could.

I know you think that was a cleaver response...and you might get some "LIKES"...awwwwwwsome for you!!!!!!

 

And yes, I couldn't care less is you keep trying to wiggle out of the intent of your early post...:wacko:

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The separation of targets (or lack thereof), if done deliberately, can add an element of strategy to an event.

 

But it has to have some risk attached to it that may offset the potential gains.

 

In other words - if you deliberately set SG in such a manner that a single shot might hit two targets - give your shooters that option.

 

But make their choice involve some risk.

No Comstock - No PLUS on the shotgun count.

Maybe move the targets out a little further so that patterns are more spread out and less dense risking that a poorly aimed shot may not take down either target.

 

Then your shooter has a strategic choice to make.

Take the risk or play it safe.

 

There are plenty of ways to integrate game elements while maintaining the competition as well.

 

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1 minute ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

The separation of targets (or lack thereof), if done deliberately, can add an element of strategy to an event.

 

But it has to have some risk attached to it that may offset the potential gains.

 

In other words - if you deliberately set SG in such a manner that a single shot might hit two targets - give your shooters that option.

 

But make their choice involve some risk.

No Comstock - No PLUS on the shotgun count.

Maybe move the targets out a little further so that patterns are more spread out and less dense risking that a poorly aimed shot may not take down either target.

 

Then your shooter has a strategic choice to make.

Take the risk or play it safe.

 

There are plenty of ways to integrate game elements while maintaining the competition as well.

 

My thoughts also. As stated in my initial post trying to take multiple KDs down with one shot has rewards and risks but to me it does add another option or element of fun or skill to the game.

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17 hours ago, watab kid said:

OK , so dump an extra round when not needed - i have shells , i was thinking of those that didnt , who knows ?

 

Well, I suppose you could point the SG and holler BANG really loud.  Doesn't that count as engagement?  Might be worth a shot if you really don't have any more shells on you.  For instance you only came to the line with 3, or you fumbled a shell and threw it out beyond the firing line.  If you did it while you still had shells in your belt you might get a different reaction. 

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12 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

Well, I suppose you could point the SG and holler BANG really loud.  Doesn't that count as engagement?

 

Just make sure the timer picks it up if SG is last gun :D

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My cas club uses WASA rules which allow the shooter to load his pump sg on the clock with as many shells as needed to do the stage. It’s not faster than loading one or two but it’s a lot more fun when you get to the shootin part. We also use spring loaded resetting sg targets so a 6-8 round sg stage fired from several positions is not uncommon. 

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50 minutes ago, Baltimore Ed said:

My cas club uses WASA rules which allow the shooter to load his pump sg on the clock with as many shells as needed to do the stage. It’s not faster than loading one or two but it’s a lot more fun when you get to the shootin part. We also use spring loaded resetting sg targets so a 6-8 round sg stage fired from several positions is not uncommon. 

I believe "CAS" is a registered trademark(?) of SASS...so...your "WASA" is not a CAS club.

 

Phantom

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We indeed are not a SASS/CAS affiliated club anymore having voted ourselves out of SASS when SASS had the rulebook dust up years ago but we adopted WASA rules [same basic safety and dress rules with a 1916 firearm cut off date]. We are a ‘small letters’ cowboy action shooters club. I would have voted to stay affiliated but had to work that day and didn’t get to the match. I still have a current SASS membership card in my wallet even though I’ve not shot a state or regional in many years. 

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At our monthlies, once in a while I will set the SG close and let the shooter have a chance to get a two fer one and I reflect that in the round count. Either a lower "+" number or a "?". Do lots of pistol and rifle KD too, with makeups with the SG. Hey, if you do it just right and get a two-fer, more power to ya. If I want two shots fired at two targets, I'll probably move em farther apart. Variety... spice it up. If it's always 4+, folks get bored. I always tell em, you may see something like this when you go out of town.

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