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The danger of militia groups


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Patriot rally in Denver with antifa/blm countering with their own rally sponsored by none other then  the Denver Communists among other groups. 2 opposing protesters argued, the conservative sprayed the other with pepper spray and the antifa/blm guy shot him dead. Been arrested.  Larger news organizations report, we don't know what happened. Smaller ones say it was the antifa who fired after the antifa/blm protesters tried to tear down barriers between the groups. As usual initiating the violence.

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I don't want to poke the bear but isn't a common counter argument about individual right for 2a the militia clause in the sentence? So militias are bad and individual gun ownership is bad?

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On 10/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Never underestimate the collective stupidity of a group of idiots.  They are much more likely to act as a group than as an individual.     

I’m amazed they actually thought they were going to kidnap a governor, kill a bunch of cops and then start their own little utopia in Wi.

Although the chaz/Chad people kinda did it without the kidnapping a government official. And they seem to have gotten away with it :) 

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Since 2016 conservatives or Trump supporters have had rallies. Leftists show up and initiate trouble. Meanwhile at the same time Hillary or liberals were holding their rallies uninterrupted by conservatives showing up to counter protest. This is how it was at that time.

 

Now it has devolved to the point where since the the liberals won't just let the conservatives have their rallies, uninterrupted,  conservatives have begun counter protesting at liberal rallies.

 

The left has continually initiated the problems. If an instigator doesn't have "antifa" tattooed on his forehead they will not identify them as leftists. The linked article states the shooter was hired security. Have they done a thorough investigation into all his social media and if they find even one comment supporting antifa or blm identify him as a Biden supporter? That's exactly what they'd do if they found anything in any way shape or form that they could link to Trump.

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On 10/9/2020 at 7:39 PM, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It’s my opinion they are a serious threat. Not particularly violence but a threat to our 2A rights. I think their actions will simply Increase public support for more gun control. :angry:

Well you know the Democrats playbook is never let a crisis go to waste. Whitler has wasted no time blaming Trump. But the press doesn’t like to tell everyone the anarchists  hate Trump just as much as her 

Edited by Buckshot Bob
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1 hour ago, Texas Joker said:

I don't want to poke the bear but isn't a common counter argument about individual right for 2a the militia clause in the sentence? So militias are bad and individual gun ownership is bad?

My take on that is that you don't have a standing militia armed and training at all times. But when the need arises you must have an armed populace to draw from to form the needed militia.

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Well looks like the national media forgot to report this part of the Michigan story - the govenor wasn't the only target seems republicans were targets too.....

 

https://www.wilx.com/2020/10/10/michigan-speaker-of-the-house-writes-letter-to-governor-whitmer-regarding-plot/

 

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1 minute ago, Raylan said:

Well looks like the national media forgot to report this part of the Michigan story - the govenor wasn't the only target seems republicans were targets too.....

 

https://www.wilx.com/2020/10/10/michigan-speaker-of-the-house-writes-letter-to-governor-whitmer-regarding-plot/

 

Seems as the democrats can't get out of their own way when it comes to their agenda and not the truth.

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8 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

My take on that is that you don't have a standing militia armed and training at all times. But when the need arises you must have an armed populace to draw from to form the needed militia.

The founding fathers brought their own CANON to the fight. Private ownership of arms has been a freemans right established in English common law well before the colonisation of America, if you can afford it manage to get it home,  feed it and shoot it safely I have no problem with what you keep in your safe, garage or barn.

 

It was late when I posted so I guess I was pointing out the rock and the hard place media messaging is creating unclearly.

'Guns r bad mmmmmkaay' .

'2A says you need to belong to a militia to own guns'

 

'Only racist nutjobs belong to militias'

 

Ergo gun owners are racist nutjobs.

 

Strict constructionist reading of the BOR always comes across as an individual right and errs on the side of not infringing on the citizen except 2a. 

 

Look at the issues with mail in voting right now imagine if you had to fill out a 4473 EVERY TIME you wanted to vote. Their heads would explode

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12 hours ago, Raylan said:


 

In the context of the times, we have to keep in mind that not only was the lesson of the Revolutionary War fresh in the minds of the Founders, but also the lesson of Shays’s Rebellion. 
 

The rebellion was crushed by militia units firing on the approaching members of the rebellion. There is considerable argument over whether the followers of Shays were attacking, or simply approaching the ranks of the state militia to talk. Either way, a ‘well-regulated militia’ was used by the state to crush Shays’s Rebellion. 
 

If the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to enable the People to oppose an oppressive government, and the government has the ability to call out a militia, then the People must be guaranteed access to weapons sufficient for the defense of of their liberty. 

Edited by Ozark Huckleberry
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Re the Denver shooting. It seems, according to DPD that the shooter was a security guard, Not one of the Patriot rally protestors.

 

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I see many thought-provoking ideas discussed here.

However, when the anarchist arrives at YOUR door, it will no longer be academic.
When he is on YOUR doorstep with a Molotov cocktail and smashing YOUR windows and cars with his skateboard, you have two choices:

Stand Aside
Stand Up

The abject failure of politicians to deal with anarchy has now put you into a Lose/Lose posture that is not academic.

 

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If those anarchist are willing to die for their cause and you are willing to help them fulfill their 'death wish',  why should

you be labeled a militia member or white supremacist?

 

..........Widder

 

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Here in the PRK, I will be labeled a murderer, destroyed financially by the courts, and spend the rest of my days being the E-Ticket Attraction in the general population wing.

So, I figure Go Big or Go Home.

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34 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Re the Denver shooting. It seems, according to DPD that the shooter was a security guard, Not one of the Patriot rally protestors.

 

The person the shooter was supposedly guarding in the blue shirt didn't appear to have anything on him identifying him as press.  I don't know if it's true but the photo of the shooter with his hands up(unless photoshopped)  shows an anti racism  space invaders tattoo on the inside of his wrist. This is a stance antifa takes, while claiming conservatives are the racists. 

 

I doubt in the few hours it took for the police to announce that the shooter has no ties to antifa that they were able to complete a thorough investigation into him. The amount and quality of evidence required to announce that a person is right wing supporter as opposed to an antifa supporter are vastly different. If a right wing militia member (not white supremacist) is hired as a security guard they won't identify him as only a security guard.

Edited by Smokin Gator SASS #29736
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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

The person the shooter was supposedly guarding in the blue shirt didn't appear to have anything on him identifying him as press.  I don't know if it's true but the photo of the shooter with his hands up(unless photoshopped)  shows an anti racism  space invaders tattoo on the inside of his wrist. This is a stance antifa takes, while claiming conservatives are the racists. 

 

I doubt in the few hours it took for the police to announce that the shooter has no ties to antifa that they were able to complete a thorough investigation into him. The amount and quality of evidence required to announce that a person is right wing supporter as opposed to an antifa supporter are vastly different. If a right wing militia member (not white supremacist) is hired as a security guard they won't identify him as only a security guard.

I can’t imagine a liberal news agency hiring a conservative as a security guard. I can definitely see them hiring one from the other side though.
 

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Both the shooter and "journalist" have social media supporting antifa/socialist or marxist views. They were following their agitator(wearing a false flag black rifles matter shirt) trying to get video of him arguing with Patriot rally attendees and hopefully getting attacked. The newsman was filming holding 2 phones up.    Coincidentally?  he stops filming when his bodyguard gets into it with the victim then shoots him. They have the same image as the tattoo the shooter has on antifa masks and other wearable gear. But Denver PD can't find any of this. Make no mistake, I am a big law enforcement supporter but much of law enforcement  is either willingly or being forced into operating in this manner today mostly in big cities.

 

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3 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Both the shooter and "journalist" have social media supporting antifa/socialist or marxist views. They were following their agitator(wearing a false flag black rifles matter shirt) trying to get video of him arguing with Patriot rally attendees and hopefully getting attacked. The newsman was filming holding 2 phones up.    Coincidentally?  he stops filming when his bodyguard gets into it with the victim then shoots him. They have the same image as the tattoo the shooter has on antifa masks and other wearable gear. But Denver PD can't find any of this. Make no mistake, I am a big law enforcement supporter but much of law enforcement  is either willingly or being forced into operating in this manner today mostly in big cities.

 

Where did you get this info? Got the reporter’s name?

 

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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1 minute ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Where did you get this info?

 

Much of it is on the calguns website. Photos and video progression of events. The agitator put on a vest partialling obscuring his black guns matter shirt and was walking away about 15 seconds after the shooting. Shouted out "it was a white supremacist, right in the dome. F@#$ yeah!" as he was leaving. They also had links to twitter etc. showing the shooters and newsmans support of antifa and communists. 

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1 hour ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Reporters name is Kyle Clark.

I have no problem with him. I have never considered him a raging liberal. I have even corresponded with him on occasion.

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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Well according to another Denver new outlet there is no record of the shooter being legally approved as a bodyguard per the Denver Department of Excise and Licensing. In any case whether he was or wasn't acting as a bodyguard, he was not legally per the law acting as one as he was not uniformed, was carrying concealed, and did not have proper identification displayed identifying himself as a bodyguard. If the TV station hired him as a bodyguard they could be in for a major lawsuit as they evidently did so without verifying he had a valid license to do so.  The victim had a concealed firearm in a crossdraw holster and it looks like from pictures slapped at the shooter to keep him from grabbing it from him. The victim was not drawing his firearm and in fact was holding a mace or pepper spray canister in the hand he would have had to use to draw it with, when the shooter drew his gun and shot the victim. The sound from a video recording and the pictures available seem to show that the victim had taken a step back from the shooter and that the shooter pulled his firearm and pointed it at the victim prior to the victim discharging the pepper/mace spray. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

The Denver Dept. of Excise and Licences reports no record of security guard license currently or ever in their records in the shooters name.

 

Bob. Clark doesn't appear to be too bad. But he has retweeted antifa/blm posts.

I have watched him for years? His reporting and commentary is more balanced than 90% of the journalists I have seen. He is constantly 

accused by both the left and right as being biased. 

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Just now, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I have watched him for years? His reporting and commentary is more balanced than 90% of the journalists I have seen. He is constantly 

accused by both the left and right as being biased. 

If it is true that he and the shooter were shadowing their agitator so they'd coincidentally be in position to film a confrontation (not knowing it would be lethal) would that change your opinion of him. 

 

Being accused by the left of being biased to the right is near meaningless. It's not enough for the left if you merely don't voice an opinion against them. If you don't 100% vocally support them you will be accused of being racist or against whatever issue is being discussed. Your silence is all it takes for them to vilify you. 

 

 

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