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Okiepan

COVID Question

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On 5/9/2020 at 7:46 AM, Okiepan said:

If masks are the answer to help reduce The spread of  this horrible virus , Then why are states letting criminals out of incarceration ?

But to arrest and jail citizens that go to a beach or cut someones hair 

I just don't get it

You are applying logic to an organization that doesn't use it.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

I've read about the Great Covid-1 fears in the late 1870's and their attempts to prevent catching it! :ph34r::D

 

Bank-Robbers-256-pixels-wide-171x300.jpg.2b575a846180666cf7162e805a9a4365.jpg

Maybe Kwai Chang Caine was a carrier . They do call it the Kung flu after all 

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I must admit that the level of denial about the Virus has me just shaking my head.  Thankfully, the President and his people are taking the pandemic as a serious threat to the lives of Americans.  The President has said himself if his administration hadn't quickly taken mitigating action, ie, travel bans, the death toll would have been much, much higher.  Even now, with two of the White House staff testing positive (VP Press Sect and President's valet), additional measures are being activated for the President and his staff.  Pards, this is not a hoax or some evil conspiracy.  Look at the impact this pandemic has had on other countries in the world.

 

Now, for the health nation as a whole, we Americans can't continue to hunker down indefinitely.  We are going to have to open up the economy, take additional risks, and unfortunately accept additional deaths.  We can't let the nation as a whole come crumbling down.  But that doesn't mean we can't show due diligence and take precautions.  But denial that COVID-19 shouldn't be taken seriously is at the least, unwise; at the worst, deadly dangerous. 

 

Finally, using disparaging names for people who disagree does not help.   Let's continue to be kind and considerate toward one another. 

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Here are my simplistic conclusions about the Covid-19 situation.

  1. Lockdown temporarily slowed down the spread, which allowed hospitals time to gear up.
  2. Masks that are available to the public are somewhat useful in preventing an asymptomatic carrier from spreading the virus.
  3. Once lockdown is over, you are likely to be exposed unless your location is very isolated or you take extreme measures, such as staying isolated and disinfecting everything that comes into your house.
  4. Staying in lockdown will greatly reduce your quality of life, although you may live longer.
  5. We are not being given all of the facts by either the media or the government.

These are the only things I feel that I know for certain.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I must admit that the level of denial about the Virus has me just shaking my head.  Thankfully, the President and his people are taking the pandemic as a serious threat to the lives of Americans.  The President has said himself if his administration hadn't quickly taken mitigating action, ie, travel bans, the death toll would have been much, much higher.  Even now, with two of the White House staff testing positive (VP Press Sect and President's valet), additional measures are being activated for the President and his staff.  Pards, this is not a hoax or some evil conspiracy.  Look at the impact this pandemic has had on other countries in the world.

 

Now, for the health nation as a whole, we Americans can't continue to hunker down indefinitely.  We are going to have to open up the economy, take additional risks, and unfortunately accept additional deaths.  We can't let the nation as a whole come crumbling down.  But that doesn't mean we can't show due diligence and take precautions.  But denial that COVID-19 shouldn't be taken seriously is at the least, unwise; at the worst, deadly dangerous. 

 

Finally, using disparaging names for people who disagree does not help.   Let's continue to be kind and considerate toward one another. 

I agree that it is a severe health risk, especially  to those more vulnerable, but to go to the heavy handed lengths that they have in a lot of places should be very troubling. To a degree I believe it is a hoax that is politically motivated to keep Trump from serving a second term and his opponents have come together to make this happen. The damage that these state instituted lockdowns has created is immense. A large number of businesses, large and small will never recover. Are we entering a time when every new virus is declared a pandemic and we’re forced into lockdown? They couldn’t impeach the man so let’s destroy the economy to see if that will get the job done. Prove me wrong?

 

Back when this thing first started I was a believer but as it has played out I’m convinced that there is much more going on than a covid -19 virus in this country. Our local hospital furloughed hundreds of nurses a couple of weeks ago because they have no patients to care for and the federal government won’t let them perform any elective surgeries. My wife finally got her breast cancer surgery after three cancellations due to the covid scare and the strange thing is they never tested her for the virus during the entire process. My daughter has been waiting on gall bladder surgery for nearly 3 months and the hospital in Arizona where it’s supposed to be done won’t allow any elective surgeries because of the governors mandate and if they do do elective surgeries they lose federal funding and they just furloughed a bunch of nurses and other personnel also.

 

Covid-19 has become a cash cow for a lot of businesses and service providers. The federal government is throwing money at it like there is no limit. 

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Never let a crisis go to waste . It’s a shame but that’s being proven true in this one 

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Under Pritker’s edict, Illinoisans are to wear masks when outside the house.  Hmm.  The images below are of both Pritzker and Chicago's Mayor Lightfoot giving press conferences just a few days ago while all of Illinois is in Phase 2 of Pritzker’s plan.  Here are Phase 2’s restrictions: 

 

Phase 2 Restrictions:
•Non-essential workers must work from home
• Stay at home as much as possible
• Wear a face covering while outside your home
• Physically distance from anyone you do not live with, especially vulnerable friends and family

(For that matter, mask wearing seems to be required through Phase 4 in Pritzer’s plan.) 

 

Note that Phase 2 requires masks be worn when outside the house but neither Pritzker nor Lightfoot is wearing a mask.  I doubt neither of them gives press conferences from their home or lives with their sign interpreter.  If they don’t, this can only mean they believe these rules don’t apply to them or their political cohorts, just the minions over whom they govern.    

 

This is typical of politicians like them:  There is one set of rules for the governing; another for the governed.   This isn’t limited to Illinois by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Consider for a moment if they had unlimited ability to impose their the control over the governed they seem to covet?  What other “good” behavior would they mandate?  What other “bad” behavior would they make illegal? 

 

This is a bordering on a dystopian nightmare:  The governing body free to do what they wish; those deemed “essential” are allowed to venture out but then return home; while the “unessential” are, for all practical purposes, under house arrest.

 

PK

 

Pritker.thumb.jpg.043f7449c718f8278bbea1f359e37bf9.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------

The image above is from https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/a-full-breakdown-of-the-5-phases-of-chicagos-reopening-plan/2268791/

 

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29 minutes ago, Popcorn Kelly said:

Under Pritker’s edict, Illinoisans are to wear masks when outside the house.  Hmm.  The images below are of both Pritzker and Chicago's Mayor Lightfoot giving press conferences just a few days ago while all of Illinois is in Phase 2 of Pritzker’s plan.  Here are Phase 2’s restrictions: 

 

Phase 2 Restrictions:
•Non-essential workers must work from home
• Stay at home as much as possible
• Wear a face covering while outside your home
• Physically distance from anyone you do not live with, especially vulnerable friends and family

(For that matter, mask wearing seems to be required through Phase 4 in Pritzer’s plan.) 

 

Note that Phase 2 requires masks be worn when outside the house but neither Pritzker nor Lightfoot is wearing a mask.  I doubt neither of them gives press conferences from their home or lives with their sign interpreter.  If they don’t, this can only mean they believe these rules don’t apply to them or their political cohorts, just the minions over whom they govern.    

 

This is typical of politicians like them:  There is one set of rules for the governing; another for the governed.   This isn’t limited to Illinois by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Consider for a moment if they had unlimited ability to impose their the control over the governed they seem to covet?  What other “good” behavior would they mandate?  What other “bad” behavior would they make illegal? 

 

This is a bordering on a dystopian nightmare:  The governing body free to do what they wish; those deemed “essential” are allowed to venture out but then return home; while the “unessential” are, for all practical purposes, under house arrest.

 

PK

 

Pritker.thumb.jpg.043f7449c718f8278bbea1f359e37bf9.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------

The image above is from https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/a-full-breakdown-of-the-5-phases-of-chicagos-reopening-plan/2268791/

 

Do as I say not as I do. We have a governor like that and a bunch of other officials.

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23 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

Yeah, but you can't convince the sheeples of that. I've gotten shouted down making a few posts on FB like this. Lots of folks drinking the Kool Aid. They think if you don't wear some useless mask you're a selfish inconsiderate SOB. You sound like a doctor, or at least someone very knowledgeable about such things. Most people never even heard of a HEPA filter let alone about the workings of one.

 

JHC

I'm not a doctor, but I work with my share of them in my consulting work which includes healthcare operational and strategic analytics.  That deep in the data you can't help but learn a lot about the realities of the healthcare business.

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50 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I agree that it is a severe health risk, especially  to those more vulnerable, but to go to the heavy handed lengths that they have in a lot of places should be very troubling. To a degree I believe it is a hoax that is politically motivated to keep Trump from serving a second term and his opponents have come together to make this happen. The damage that these state instituted lockdowns has created is immense. A large number of businesses, large and small will never recover. Are we entering a time when every new virus is declared a pandemic and we’re forced into lockdown? They couldn’t impeach the man so let’s destroy the economy to see if that will get the job done. Prove me wrong?

Yul, President Trump has ordered many of the actions that have caused the troublesome consequences.   I assume you've been in leadership/management positions and know that decisions and actions have intended consequences and unintended consequences.  Leader makes the call, monitors the results, makes corrections where he can, improve on the good.  Yes, the Democrats are going to take advantage of this crisis for political gain and don't want Trump reelected.  I'm reasonably sure that doesn't surprise anybody.   The same also goes for the state Governors.  I believe they are doing the best they can and will make mistakes.  They're humans too.  But somebody has got to have the authority to make the calls.  In our Republic, it's in the hands of the Executive Branch: President, Governors, Mayors.  And they are all making calls.  Some better than others.  Some downright stupid and need to be corrected.

 

No I don't believe every new virus will be declared a pandemic.

 

1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Back when this thing first started I was a believer but as it has played out I’m convinced that there is much more going on than a covid -19 virus in this country. Our local hospital furloughed hundreds of nurses a couple of weeks ago because they have no patients to care for and the federal government won’t let them perform any elective surgeries. My wife finally got her breast cancer surgery after three cancellations due to the covid scare and the strange thing is they never tested her for the virus during the entire process. My daughter has been waiting on gall bladder surgery for nearly 3 months and the hospital in Arizona where it’s supposed to be done won’t allow any elective surgeries because of the governors mandate and if they do do elective surgeries they lose federal funding and they just furloughed a bunch of nurses and other personnel also.

I do see where you're coming from and your concerns for your wife and daughter.  Arizona Governor Ducey (R) lifted the executive order banning elective surgeries effective May 1st.  Also, Arizona government is looking into providing financial relief to hospitals that have suffered from the ordered lock downs.   I don't think the postponement of elective surgeries were only in Arizona.  Prayers up for your wife and daughter.

 

1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Covid-19 has become a cash cow for a lot of businesses and service providers. The federal government is throwing money at it like there is no limit. 

Some businesses and services are benefiting from the Covid-19 mandated actions, others are not.  Not surprising.  I too am concerned about the National Debt and had that concern before the pandemic.  The federal spending is going to have to be addressed seriously!

 

With all the bad things that have happened, I still have a great faith in America.  I believe in our form of government even with all it's flaws.  We have a form of government that allows for flaws to be mitigated or corrected.  I'm convinced we'll come out of the crisis a stronger and better nation.  And hopefully, a little wiser.

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do see where you're coming from and your concerns for your wife and daughter.  Arizona Governor Ducey (R) lifted the executive order banning elective surgeries effective May 1st.  Also, Arizona government is looking into providing financial relief to hospitals that have suffered from the ordered lock downs.   I don't think the postponement of elective surgeries were only in Arizona.  Prayers up for your wife and daughter.
 

Arizona has not lifted it at the hospitals where she is. I just got off the phone with her. California has bans on elective surgeries also just ask my wife as do other states. Sure Trump has instituted some of this stuff but in a whole bunch of cases nationwide local, county and state officials have taken things to a whole different level and if you don’t believe it’s politically motivated that’s fine I do and on that we’ll never agree.

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15 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Arizona has not lifted it at the hospitals where she is. I just got off the phone with her. California has bans on elective surgeries also just ask my wife as do other states. Sure Trump has instituted some of this stuff but in a whole bunch of cases nationwide local, county and state officials have taken things to a whole different level and if you don’t believe it’s politically motivated that’s fine I do and on that we’ll never agree.

Yul, I hope this helps some in understanding Arizona Elective Surgeries.  Article posted April 22.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/gov-ducey-elective-surgeries-can-resume-on-may-1-in-arizona-if-certain-requirements-are-met

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

Yul, I hope this helps some in understanding Arizona Elective Surgeries.  Article posted April 22.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/gov-ducey-elective-surgeries-can-resume-on-may-1-in-arizona-if-certain-requirements-are-met

Yep, I understand it just fine as does my daughter, after all she works closely with the governors office on a daily basis. Your conclusion that elective surgeries were not banned as of May 1 is incorrect. Hoops still have to be jumped through, hoops that they have imposed that the hospitals are not willing to jump through.

Edited by Yul Lose

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Yep, I understand it just fine as does my daughter, after all she works closely with the governors office on a daily basis. Your conclusion that elective surgeries were not banned as of May 1 is incorrect. Hoops still have to jump through hoops that they have imposed that the hospitals are not willing to jump through.

Agree. 

 

My hopes and prayers are that your daughter receives effective surgery and care soonest. 

 

Is there something I can do to help?  Seriously.  Since I'm an Arizona voter, can I make a phone call to someone?

 

 

.

Edited by Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663
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1 hour ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

Agree. 

 

My hopes and prayers are that your daughter receives effective surgery and care soonest. 

 

Is there something I can do to help?  Seriously.  Since I'm an Arizona voter, can I make a phone call to someone?

 

 

.

Unless you can convince her surgeon and hospital to do her surgery prior to June 1, your prayers are about all you can do and they’re appreciated. If elective surgeries, even one elective surgery are performed at that hospital before June 1st they have to return all federal monies they’ve received for the covid-19 program. The place is nearly empty but by golly they’re going to keep it that way.

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20 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

masks work no better one way than the other.

Of course not.  But, as my daughter reminded me, they do keep people from spitting on each other.  She sent me two masks that she had made for Mothers Day.  I think she meant the second one for her dad but I'm not sure he's going to get it.  It's got pirates on.

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On 5/9/2020 at 5:39 AM, Ozark Shark said:

Nothing short of an N 95 mask will stop most viruses including COVID 19.  The N 95 filters particles down to 0.3 microns.  At it largest, the COVID 19 virion is 0.14 microns; half the size of the N 95 filtration limit.  N 95 masks are a high-tech design that utilizes four methods of filtration; inertial impaction, interception, diffusion, and electrostatic attraction. Given that the COVID 19 virus is significantly smaller than the direct filtration limits of the N 95, virions can be suspended in the filter through the first three methods only if they are also trapped in some larger form in the aerosol like a water molecule.  It's primarily the electrostatic method that captures virions and that has a limited lifespan (8 hours of continuous use according to the CDC).  Home-made masks have no electrostatic capacity and the cloth weave even in layers is too loose to have any filtering effect on virions, but they are damn good virion incubators as they trap moisture and are rarely properly sterilized.  Knowing this, I won't voluntarily join in the farce by wearing a homemade mask.  These mandates are not based on science but sociology and politics.  Here's a good analysis of the filtering properties of cloth masks compared to the N 95.  https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744 

Covid 19 has to penetrate a cell to replicate.  Once the host cell is dead its cell wall bursts releasing many new copies of the virus that invaded the cell.  The stated reason  reason for wearing any mouth & nose covering is to stop the liquid droplets that are exhaled or expelled with a cough.  It isn't to prevent infection of the wearer.

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20 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

People don't seem to realize that masks work no better one way than the other. Kinda like tracers, they work (or don't) both ways.

JHC

Bad analogy. It’s more like A claymore mine. Put it up against a tree and the blast radius isn’t very far or wide. 

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