Cypress Sun Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said: At our parish one time I was going to do some vacuuming in the church - built by volunteers in 1936. Plugged into the combination receptacle, turned on the vacuum, and the overhead light in the sacristy came on. Turned off the vacuum and the light went out. Turned the light on with the switch, turned on the vacuum, and the overhead light went out. I just unplugged the vacuum cleaner and used a different outlet. I described the issue to one of our members who was an electrician and he gave me an odd look. When he dug unto it he was just shaking his head. During the remodel he rewired the entire building. Don't know if it applies in the situation above but I always hated working on electrical problems in two type locations...old churches and bars. They either (or possibly both) had parishioners that mean well "electricians" or drunk "electricians" that'll do it for drinks. In your case, I suspect that an "electrician" had replaced a receptacle that was switched. To do that, there is a little tab between the two screws on the hot side that needs to be snapped off so that the top and bottom can operate independently of each other. That's not the problem usually. The problem is that there is also a tab on the neutral side also (why, I don't know) and sometimes "electricians" break that off also which leads to some interesting (sometime dangerous) situations. When you turned your vacuum on, it completed the circuit. It might have gotten very interesting if you'd have the vacuum on AND turned on the switch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 23 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: They either (or possibly both) had parishioners that mean well "electricians" Built by Russian and Arab immigrants. 24 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: It might have gotten very interesting if you'd have the vacuum on AND turned on the switch. Which was why I unplugged and used a different outlet. I knew enough to know That's Not Good. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Stump Water Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) On 5/10/2024 at 11:19 AM, Alpo said: All of the bedrooms had a ceiling fan with a light kit. And I had them put in a double light switch. One turned on the light kit, and the other turned on the ceiling fan. There was none of this nonsense of having to have the light turned on and then turn on the fan by pulling the string. Just turn the switch on. For the new house we got ceiling fans with controls like this. The moron that wired the house assumed we needed a conventional switch for the fan and another for the light. When it was all said and done there was a switch plate in every room with a switch that did nothing. So I pulled the do-nothing switches out and replaced them with blanks... which cost five bucks each. On a similar note, we got bridge faucets for the bathroom. When the moron that did the counter tops showed up to install he had already drilled the hole for the faucet dead-center of the sink opening. Because, that's one hole he wouldn't have to drill on-site donchaknow. Edited May 11 by Stump Water 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 2 hours ago, Stump Water said: For the new house we got ceiling fans with controls like this. The moron that wired the house assumed we needed a conventional switch for the fan and another for the light. When it was all said and done there was a switch plate in every room with a switch that did nothing. So I pulled the do-nothing switches out and replaced them with blanks... which cost five bucks each. On a similar note, we got bridge faucets for the bathroom. When the moron that did the counter tops showed up to install he had already drilled the hole for the faucet dead-center of the sink opening. Because, that's one hole he wouldn't have to drill on-site donchaknow. Perhaps the "moron" that wired the house wired it based on electrical blueprints drawn by the owner's architects and approved by the owners before construction even started. I seriously doubt that the electrician "assumed" anything and added switches at his own extra cost. Usually adding anything extra (for any trade) requires a Change Order before the extra item is added. Change Orders usually require both the General Contractor and the homeowner to agree to the extra item and extra charge before proceeding with the work. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 43 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: Perhaps the "moron" that wired the house wired it based on electrical blueprints drawn by the owner's architects and approved by the owners before construction even started. I seriously doubt that the electrician "assumed" anything and added switches at his own extra cost. Of course he did. He also had the fans. He didn't look in the box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, Stump Water said: Of course he did. He also had the fans. He didn't look in the box. He had the fans at the rough-in stage of the job? That's somewhat rare. Typically, the electrician would wire the house according to the blueprints anyway unless directed otherwise by the GC or homeowner. Sometimes, the architect specifies the make/model of the light fixures/fans, sometimes it's the owner. Very often, the electrician must request this info as it is rarely supplied at the rough-in stage of the job. I've wired well over 100 residential homes over 40+ years. I've never seen an electrical contractor have physical possession of light fixtures/fans of a residence at the rough-in stage of the job. Even if your electrician had possession of the fans prior to rough-in but the prints called for two switches, installing the 2-gang box and 3 conductor (+ground) wiring to the fan, then the electrician followed the plan correctly. An old adage in construction that often rears it's ugly head during trim out is "I didn't design the *****r, I just installed the ******d." As a side note - the electronic speed control/light control/on-off control such as the one in the picture is very susceptible to damage from voltage surges and fluctuations, most of which are utility company related. Almost all of your appliances, etc., are the same way. Make sure you have GOOD surge protection, starting at the utility meter or main electrical panel. The pos, run of the mill surge protection that is common on new installations is junk. Do some research and get the best that you can. Remember though, nothing will stop a direct lightning strike but that's not where the vast majority of surges originate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Stump Water Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: He had the fans at the rough-in stage of the job? Yes. 34 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: Sometimes, the architect specifies the make/model of the light fixures/fans, sometimes it's the owner. Very often, the electrician must request this info as it is rarely supplied at the rough-in stage of the job. Plans were done in April. Construction started in September. We had 4 months to pick out fixtures. 34 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: Even if your electrician had possession of the fans prior to rough-in but the prints called for two switches, installing the 2-gang box and 3 conductor (+ground) wiring to the fan, then the electrician followed the plan correctly. An old adage in construction that often rears it's ugly head during trim out is "I didn't design the *****r, I just installed the ******d." We told the contractor about the "special" controls for the fans. The contractor told the electrician. He didn't open the boxes. Why are you defending this guy? I'm pretty sure it wasn't you. 34 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: As a side note - the electronic speed control/light control/on-off control such as the one in the picture is very susceptible to damage from voltage surges and fluctuations, most of which are utility company related. Almost all of your appliances, etc., are the same way. Make sure you have GOOD surge protection, starting at the utility meter or main electrical panel. Surge protection is in the panels. 34 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: The pos, run of the mill surge protection that is common on new installations is junk. Do some research and get the best that you can. Remember though, nothing will stop a direct lightning strike but that's not where the vast majority of surges originate. I've told hundreds of people the same thing over the years. Likewise for the POS outlet strips that have "surge protection". ETA: A year after the house was built we started the garage/shop. Same contractor, same electrician. I spec'd a 50 amp outlet in the shop. Electrician said (to my face), "Whadda ya want that for? Ya gonna run a welder in there?" I said, "If I ******g want to." Edited May 11 by Stump Water 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Cypress Sun Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 17 minutes ago, Stump Water said: Yes. Plans were done in April. Construction started in September. We had 4 months to pick out fixtures. We told the contractor about the "special" controls for the fans. The contractor told the electrician. He didn't open the boxes. Why are you defending this guy? I'm pretty sure it wasn't you. Surge protection is in the panels. I've told hundreds of people the same thing over the years. Likewise for the POS outlet strips that have "surge protection". ETA: A year after the house was built we started the garage/shop. Same contractor, same electrician. I spec'd a 50 amp outlet in the shop. Electrician said (to my face), "Whadda ya want that for? Ya gonna run a welder in there?" I said, "If I ******g want to." I'm not defending him, simply trying to find out who the "moron" is. It appears, after your latest post, that you are indeed correct on your assessment of him...he's a moron. I always kept a spiral notebook for each larger job. In this notebook, I kept a sort of dated diary of the day's events including notes about conversations with homeowners, GC's, other trades that concerned any and all changes, critical measurements and the like. That "diary" came in handy on several occasions in the event of discrepancies and 'who said what on what date'. I also would have a copy of the electrical as-built plan made and keep it at the office in storage boxes with job names/date. Even though I retired 5 years ago,I still do the date, time, who I talked to, what we talked about, note keeping to this day. If you'd have wanted to add a 50 amp outlet in your shop, I'd have said "No problem, anything else while we're at it?" Extra items mean extra money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Excuse me are we still doing cartoons here? Just sayin’….. 2 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 15 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Excuse me are we still doing cartoons here? Just sayin’….. 3 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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