.22 LR division

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

We are now allowing it, but not eligible for overall.

[watab kid]

im in agreenment with offering it , the youngsters have always been allowed , one of them got me involved back in the day and she was a good shot too ,,it might actually allow some older shooters to continue shooting with all the aches and pains that come with old age - or is it just me ? i dont think so ..............

[The Loose Moose]

I think the single biggest hurdle for attracting new shooters is ammunition. 
My biggest gripe isn’t the cost of the  components, but the enormous amount of time needed to make all the ammo for my wife and I. Luckily for MOST existing sass shooters, they’ve qualified enough laps around the sun to be AARP members and they may have a lot of discretionary time to slave in an ammo plant to make their own in order to “save on costs”. However, the target demographic of the population we’d like to attract are most likely still in the working age class who are trying support their families and probably don’t have a lot of free time to dedicate to making ammo, and not to mention the additional costs needed to get setup to reload.

The .22 rim fire is simply the easiest solution to the value of costs vs time. 

In a different yet similar world of BPCR silhouette competition, a massive drop off in the number of shooters is happening much like sass, however the BPCR game adopted a new 22BPCR game and it is showing steady growth contrary to the big bore matches.

 

I can readily order thousands of rounds of 22 for an avg cost of $0.05-$0.07 per round and the time it took me to do that was about a minute. At todays costs, one primer costs as much if not more than one 22 round, so I’m curious to learn how anyone can show me their 38 ammo is cheaper than a 22 not even considering time value.

Let’s face it, it takes a lot time to dedicate to sass fun, and time is the most precious commodity. It’s hard to get anyone, besides the truly dedicated, to invest the time it takes to play these games.

 

$0.02

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

2 hours ago, The Loose Moose said:

a new 22BPCR game and it is showing steady growth contrary to the big bore matches.

 

I can readily order thousands of rounds of 22 for an avg cost of $0.05-$0.07 per round

 

How is that a black powder game (BP CR) if using commercial .22 rimfire ammo?     Sounds more like just a single-shot rifle game.

 

ACTION sports are usually not shot with a .22 due to the frequent use of knockdown and other reactive targets.  Hard to calibrate those to go down with hits from .22s. 

 

And, as already mentioned several times, match directors are free to open a special "open" .22 category for SASS matches, if they can figure out how to deal with quiet muzzle report, difficult reloading of most 22 guns on the clock, and other problems with rimfire shot on anything but paper or very frangible targets.  GJ

Edited February 24, 2025 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

4 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

How is that a black powder game (BP CR) if using commercial .22 rimfire ammo?     Sounds more like just a single-shot rifle game.

 

ACTION sports are usually not shot with a .22 due to the frequent use of knockdown and other reactive targets.  Hard to calibrate those to go down with hits from .22s. 

 

And, as already mentioned several times, match directors are free to open a special "open" .22 category for SASS matches, if they can figure out how to deal with quiet muzzle report, difficult reloading of most 22 guns on the clock, and other problems with rimfire shot on anything but paper or very frangible targets.  GJ

 

Other than shotgun targets, reactive targets seem to be pretty rare these days.  Shotgun last solves quiet problem.   Is reloads really a thing anymore?   Spotters have to watch closely.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

All are losses to our game that I lament.  COWBOY shooting of the era involved guns capable of knocking down horses, dispatching cattle and some game for the pot.  GJ

[Hoss]

I generally drag out my 22s & 410 double to shoot at least one match a year, usually in the summertime )when it’s hot and the lighter guns are less work!) this is for a monthly club match. I’ve never had a problem with our knockdowns, if fairly hit. I do aim a bit more for the upper 1/3 of target than I would with my 38s. 
shooting 22s is fun. I have a Win pump and a Marlin 39a. A Ruger Single Six, a Ruger Shopkeeper, a Colt new frontier. I bring them all and have fun. 

[Waimea]

I shoot .22s regularly at the SW FLORIDA REGULATORS in beautiful sunny Punta Gorda Florida where we shoot year round. Yes, even in the chilly winter weather. Today it didn't get above 75°.

[Jasper Agate]

On 12/7/2016 at 1:59 AM, Snakebite said:

It certainly has ZERO interest for me, and I seriously doubt that many more folks would be interested in a Long Range 22 RF category.... of course if you can find someone else interested, then the two of you can most likely go out to the range and shoot it out. I do, however see some interest in short range 22 RF shooting gallery type side events, IF DONE PROPERLY. One of our neighboring clubs has a very talented member who has made a motorized arcade for 22 RF. It has the ducks and all sorts of whiz bang targets to shoot. This draws many shooters when ever he sets it up.

 

Snakebite

Hey Buddy,

Don't knock the 22 long range until you've tried it!! I shoot 22 BPCR with little tiny chickens at 50 yards off hand ( with a 12 lb rifle), pigs at 100, turkeys at 150 and rams at 200 yards and it's a hoot!! I also shoot with world class shooters with 22's on paper at 200 yards with scaled down targets to mirror 300 and 400 yards and do pretty well. It's something I can do with this tired old body.

                             Hope you and Connie are well and maybe well see you on the road this year.

                                                         Your old Friend,

                                                         Jasper or as you like to call me Timmy

[Snakebite]

Timmy, how do you load the 22 RF with BP? 

[Erasmus]

I'm all for it, and have been advocating for it for a couple of years now. 

 

An all ages .22 category using two .22 single action pistols, any lever action .22 rifle, and a 20 gauge or better single shot (or single loaded double/repeater) shotgun. 

 

There are plenty of folks out there with a single action .22 revolver and a single action .22 lever rifle already that would like to play Cowboy Action but don't want to borrow gear (being dependent on the good will of others) or buy gear (buying 4 new guns). 

 

If we had an all ages .22 category, even as a side match, people could dip their toes in the game and drum up some more participation. 

 

Sure, many of us can reload .38 cheaper than we can buy .22; but LOTS of people interested in trying out CAS don't reload, and some of them aren't interested in reloading. 

 

Sure, you can buy cheap used guns from people on this forum, but you have to know about this forum and be willing to deal with the particulars of buying a gun from some random person you met on the internet. 

 

You can walk into Bass Pro and buy two Heritage .22 pistols, a Stoeger coach gun, and a Rossi Rio Bravo for under $1,000 and still have money to go to Tractor Supply for a shirt, some boots, and a hat. And tons of people already have some (or some variation) of those guns (like Dad's Single Six and Marlin 39a) and wouldn't only have to supplement their current armory. 

[Erasmus]

On 2/24/2025 at 8:07 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

All are losses to our game that I lament.  COWBOY shooting of the era involved guns capable of knocking down horses, dispatching cattle and some game for the pot.  GJ

I would suggest there's less of a leap from gamers using super light .32s to people use .22RF, than from those same gamers using super light .32s and other people choosing to shoot full house .45s. 

 

That is we are so far gone, with how formulaic the game has come, and the allowance for things other than guns capable of knocking down horses (etc., and for reasons other than just gamers, plenty of people have health problems preventing them from safely shooting full black powder power 45 LC) there might as well be an all ages .22 category to attract new shooters from all ages. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Said I lament it.   You are certainly  free to have your own opinions.  But no need to "suggest" to me that I ought to feel that way.  GJ

[Erasmus]

42 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Said I lament it.   You are certainly  free to have your own opinions.  But no need to "suggest" to me that I ought to feel that way.  GJ

I'm not suggesting how you should feel, I'm suggesting the difference between gamer .32s and .22RF is less than the difference between gamer 32 (or 38s for that matter) and full house full house 45 LC. We are so far removed from those old loads, why stop there? And if that's what we need to grow the sport, maybe it's not that bad. 

Edited February 27, 2025 by Erasmus

[Sam Sackett]

I have shot at clubs that allowed 22’s and have seen folks shoot them that could not afford larger calibers. It’s not just about ammo cost. 22’s are cheaper to purchase and a lot of folks already have a lever rifle in 22. Lower cost. Means we can see new shooters. 
Our loca club has a Plinker category for them and we all have a great time. 
 

Sam Sackett 

[Jasper Agate]

11 hours ago, Snakebite said:

Timmy, how do you load the 22 RF with BP? 

Carefully, very carefully my friend!!!

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Resurrecting this thread yet again, it may have more lives than most Cats, because of a conversation I had with a shooter at today's monthly match which kind of took me by surprise.  I was asked if I was planning to continue to offer the .22 Category in the future.  I answered yes, and followed up later with the shooter asking why they asked that question.  Did they not like the category itself or were they planning on shooting it but didn't want to buy something if it was going away.  The answer was that they understood why it was put in place, but that they felt it had served it's purpose, and now that components were (mostly) readily available, the need for that Category had passed.

 

To be honest, I had never really considered it an issue, and this was the first negative opinion about this that I have ever personally received, so this caught me off guard.  They were not trying to change my opinion, just expressing theirs, and I thanked them for the honesty of their answer.  I hope to continue that discussion with them in the future to flesh out my thinking on it a bit.  Not sure my answer will change, but I like to have a well reasoned opinion and not just an off the cuff answer with no supporting data.

 

A little background information...

 

We started offering this category (Originally Plinkers, now we call it Deuces Wild) back in May 2021 at the height of the Primer/Powder shortage and we have continued it since then.  In fact, at our monthly matches, it has become our biggest category, every month.  At today's monthly match, we had 19 shooters, 4 of which were Deuces Wild.  We have had it as an unofficial category at the State Match, with the understanding that they could not ever win Overall, not that it was ever even close to being an issue for us.

 

The shooters tend to be older (Elder Statesman and up) with a few exceptions who are typically the grand child of one of the above group.  Many of them shoot .22 revolvers and .38 rifles, but not all.  Getting a 22 rifle that will reliably fire every time, and not be a total PITA to do a reload seems to be the ticket.

 

We don't do sub categories, so it's Deuces Wild (Open or Ladies - although we have yet to have a lady Deuces Wild shooter) but any style is allowed.  So I guess I could shoot FCGFDW (Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter Deuces Wild) in the Deuces Wild category if I had the patience to make the ammo and the ability not blow myself up in the process! 

 

Things I have noticed.....

• I have never seen a DW shooter finish higher than the middle of the pack, and even that is way down in the time stats.
   
• For the most part, they don't have any problems with the knock-downs.  I've seen them go down with a .22 that a .38 bounced off of, shot placement is the key.  And if they don't go down, they don't complain about it, they just do the makeup with the shotgun when allowed or take the miss.
   
• For the most part, if they have a misfire on the pistol or rifle, or jack one out, they just take the miss.  One shooter seems to have mastered the reload on a Henry, but only because the number of misfires is a factor so he has had practice...
   
• Good Ammo Selection is critical to whatever success is possible in this category.

 

Random Thoughts Against....

• I certainly understand those folks who believe that this is "Not Cowboy" and, in fact, SASS has yet to official endorse a .22 category.  Will it happen, maybe?  I seem to recall reading something from SASS that they were investigating that as an option, but I don't recall the details, or whether a determination in the negative was the final answer.
   
• I do recall the whole Rattlesnake Wrangler issue from days long gone, so I do realize there is the possibility that the Match Champion might someday be a Deuces Wild shooter, but that would require an exceptional shooter and the seemingly extremely rare circumstance that all of their rounds when BANG on the first hit.
   
• I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of them at the moment.
   

Random Thoughts In Favor....

• If you are a new shooter, you can get into the game for about half the price of anything else, even compared to used stuff.  A pair of Ruger Wranglers will set you back less than the cost of a single New Vaquero.  The rifle is about half the cost of a beat up '92.  That is a BIG factor for a lot of folks starting out.
   
• We want not only new shooters, but their kids also, to get into the game.  Compare the cost of outfitting a family of 4, and then keeping them shooting, and it quickly becomes "Real Money"!
   
• Although reloading components are becoming readily available, they are still not "cheap".  Primers are still $65/1K, or $130/2K, My GoTo Bullet is a 38 130gr RNFP Bullet from RimRock and they are $69.00/500 or $276.00/2K, and Tightgroup is  $41/1lb container (which makes 2K bullets at 3.5gr).  I have not added in any shipping or hazemat charges.  So to make 2K rounds (assuming you already have the brass) is $130.00+276.00+41=$447.00 / 2K = $0.225 per round.  CCI Quiet 42gr .22LR is $46.99/500 = $0.094 per round.  Less than half the price, and you don't need a reloading press.
   
• New shooters, and those with limited time, don't typically have a reloading setup so they start out buying ammo, and for some, it's the only way they can shoot.  Purchased Cowboy Ammo is running $175.00 for 250 rounds which is $0.70 per round, although I will admit that I purchased some for $400.00/1K or $0.40 per round not that long ago at a match because we don't load smokeless anymore and needed some for a trip.
   
• A lot of folks live in Multi-Dwelling Units (be it a TownHome, Condo, or Apartment) and there are specific exclusions in many areas about having reloading components in those structures.  We certainly have it here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland....

 

General Comments....

• I was told when I started this sport that I would be reloading before I knew it, but at the time way back in 2002, I could buy 1000 rounds of once fired brass, Cowboy Loads, for $99.99 shipped to my door, so even then it was $0.10 per round, but I just didn't have the time.  When we started  reloading it was about $0.05 per round using the 10K rounds of brass we (Me, my wife, and our two sons) accumulated in the first 4 years of our shooting using purchased ammo.
   
• Maybe we should stress that need to learn reloading to prospective shooters and run classes on reloading, but I suspect the Liability Lawyers would be lining up waiting for an "Incident"...
   
• In our area, the mid-Atlantic States, we are all suffering from falling attendance at our matches.  Back I started, it was typical to have 80-90 shooters at our monthly matches.  Now we seem to be stuck on that terrible number between 17 and 19, where it is really too big for one posse and just too small for two posse's.
   
• Prior to the conversation today, I hadn't given much though to it, other than it was bringing in new shooters and keeping others playing the game.  Would they switch back to .38's if .22's were verboten?  Probably, but I suspect I would see them less often, but that is just my opinion at the moment.
   
• Maybe the answer is to score them separately, but at the end of the day, anybody that can run Excel, could combine the scores into a single match score.
   
• Maybe we need to score the .22 shooters using Rank Points!  

 

At the end of the day, the bottom line question is, what will keep the most shooters possible attending our matches so that SASS and Cowboy Action Shooting doesn't die.  I see signs of new life, new shooters, folks attending the New Shooters Clinics we offer, but they typically shoot for a while, then disappear, and I don't think it's due to not liking the sport or the people.  I think it largely has to do with costs, specifically ammo, because by that point, they already have all the guns and gear.

 

So, at least for now, I am in favor of keeping the UN-Official Deuces Wild category alive, but I am certainly willing to listen to dissenting opinions.

 

Thanks,

 

Dogmeat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Some specific objections to a .22 match have been raised that I shall now comment on.

To wit...
 

>A full size rimfire revolver costs the same as a center fire revolver.

Well, that's true, to an extent.  But, for this game, let's face it, we spend a lot of money anyway. 

But that being said...



Both are Colts.   I got the top one for $400 at a time when a .45 would have gone for about $800
The bottom I got for $700 at a time when a .45 was going for about $1200.   Granted, I got both of them used, but well, I got 'em.

>Never seen a rimfire 66 or 73.
Hmmm...

Well...

 

The middle rifle is an Uberti 66 in .22.   It is very similar to the reproduction 73 .22 that Uberti also made that is a replica of the 73 .22 made by Winchester.  But that's not your only option.  The top gun is a small frame Colt Lightning .22 and the bottom is a Winchester 9422.

To say nothing of the plethora of pump action .22's made by Winchester and others, both originals and replicas.


>What's the point ?

The point?   It's fun!   I've never shot a ".22 match" but I'd jump at the chance to do one, just for something different.   Now, I do not think a general .22 category is a good idea.  But, if once a year a club wants to do a .22 match where it's an option, I don't see the harm.   Prolly have to write every stage where the shotgun is last, and still require 20 gauge or larger, just to make sure the timer can hear something.

[watab kid]

i think i might as well , if one was offered to us adults , 

[Sedalia Dave]

Anything that keeps people shooting is a good thing.

[Wild Eagle]

+1 for Sedalia Dave

 

I shoot at four different clubs that all offer "Double Deuce" category at monthly matches.  As many have noted above there are many reasons that people shoot this category.  We have a young family of four that shoots it because "dad" doesn't have time to load for four shooters.  There are several young guys that work long hours.  They shoot 38's when they have time to load and shoot 22's when they don't.  We have several older shooters that just find it easier to shoot the lighter, lower recoiling 22's.  We have some older shooters that are caring for parents and/or spouses and no longer have time to reload so they also shoot 22's.  And the list goes on....  So far no one is shooting 22's in order to gain a competitive advantage. 

 

The clubs I shoot at all have room for a few more shooters, and a couple really need a few more to maintain financial stability.  So far, offering the 22 categories has not created any problems and have helped to keep more people shooting.  I think that offering it at monthly matches is a good thing.  I don't shoot it myself, but as I get older, I may need to in order to keep shooting.  I'm not sure that it should be a formally recognized SASS category for major matches, but it would probably be a good option for SASS to explore.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

My initial attraction to SASS was precisely that it wasn't more plinking with 22s. The idea of shooting big bore 44 or 45 caliber single action revolvers really excited me. I always shot 44 Specials and occasionally 45 Colt.

[Captain Bill Burt]

12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Anything that keeps people shooting is a good thing.

With some reservations I agree.

17 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

My initial attraction to SASS was precisely that it wasn't more plinking with 22s. The idea of shooting big bore 44 or 45 caliber single action revolvers really excited me. I always shot 44 Specials and occasionally 45 Colt.

We need a tent that’s big enough for Dave and Gator while retaining the Cowboy vibe. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

On 2/24/2025 at 11:07 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

All are losses to our game that I lament.  COWBOY shooting of the era involved guns capable of knocking down horses, dispatching cattle and some game for the pot.  GJ

Our sport is losing people so allowing .22’s is allowing new people to get involved. I’m all for it. .22’s have been around since the 1845l  

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:08 PM, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

There is nothing stopping a local club from offering a sub category like you propose. But in my experience of match directing even the most casual of competitors will not like placing below an adult shooter be it a man or woman who is shooting .22's when they are shooting centerfires.

 I wouldn’t mind someone now matter what age or experience getting into shooting.22, as it has become fairly expensive shooting even .38 not the ammo but the firearms. I would only caution that there might be a higher amount of lead recoil depending on how far a way and the angle of the steel targets. 
seriously a couple of .22 revolvers and a lever rifle might be around $700?  If it gets a lot more people into the “game” they can always move up into higher calibers. 

[Griff]

How many of those advocating for a official .22 category would be traveling to either the National or World Championships to compete in that category on that stage.  So many of you talk of costs for reloading and arms in the center-fire categories as justification for such a new category.  Given the costs associated with attending just those two events as well as attending the various Regional & State championships, (not to mention the additional costs to the host organizations), I wonder about the cost/benefit to the governing body (SASS).  Would the value of adding 1,000 new members to the rolls of SASS equate to even a 100 new entrants at large events... maybe just 10... 5... maybe only 2?  Would the cost savings on ammo for shooting every monthly match available to me, exceed the cost of adding such firearms to my collection; AND include the cost to even attend one of these large, multi-day, prestigious matches?  Frankly, I would postulate, not!  I firmly believe that if your leisure-time monetary & time budget allows you to travel and compete in these events, you can afford centerfire ammo, whether you buy same or make your own.

 

My personal, and long-standing feelings of the whole of the category question is that every call for a new category has been fueled by self-centered interests.  Often felt by a large number of members... but self-serving, none-the-less.  

 

Not many here have seen the proliferation of categories from a real historical view... Well, I'll share this from my unofficial historical records.

The first two EOTs, 11982 & 1983 had 2 categories, Male & Female.  

1984 saw the addition of "Modern".  

1986 had the "Blackpowder" category added.

1987 had "International" added.

1988 added "Traditional"

1989  the addition of "Junior" and "Senior".

1990 rang in Frontier Cartridge and the loss of the "Blackpowder" category.

1993 saw the addition of "Junior Girls" & "Duelist" to the list.

1994 added "Ladies Traditional" as a category.

1997 the "Frontiersman" category was added.

1998 was the first year for "Ladies B-Western", "Lady Duelist", "Lady Senior" & "Ladies International".  

1999 is the 1st year I have a winner listed for "Gunfighter" & "Elder Statesman"; and the last year an "International" award was presented.

2001 added "Senior Duelist".

2003 had "49'er","Lady 49'er", "Ladies Gunfighter" & "Classic Cowboy" added.

2004 has the 1st listing for "Grande Dame".

2005 adds "Buckaroo", "Buckarette", "B-Western", "Classic Cowgirl", "Lady Frontier Cartridge", & Lady Frontrier Cartridge Duelist".

2007 added "Lady Senior Gunfighter" & Silver Senior Gunfighter".

2008 added "Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge Duelist", & was the last year "Modern" & "Traditional" in both men's and ladies categories were honored.  Replaced in

2009 by "Lady Wrangler", & "Wrangler".

 

From there on, it seems as tho' it's mostly age based divisions of shooting style, propellant, or costume categories.

 

Remember, my list is "unofficial", and may contain some mistakes as shuffling around categories has created a couple of gaps that I've tried to fix to the best of my ability, but...  Also note that a couple of category name changes have occured... and I've tried to keep my record in accordance with the latest category name.  The early days (pre-1990) is largely based on the memory of a couple of shooters as actual records from then don't seem to exist.  (If you find one an error, please let me know, as I'd like to have an accurate, if unofficial record).

 

 All the above to say... Adding a .22 caliber category to a shoot like EOT or Land Run is likely to ultimately add several divisions of style, costume, along with gender & age divisions that will become onerous to the parent and host organizations.   Be (insert favored navel expletive here) happy if your local club allows you to shoot with your .22s!  Methinks you doth ask too much.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

At the expense of starting out in this game not counting if someone has never loaded Ammo yet or dont have loading equipment. 

Shooting. 22's would be the least expensive way to draw a new shooter to the game .

Unfortunately some of us are dying off or getting to the point we can no longer Participate in the game.

It might be a way to draw in new or young shooter who has never been able to participate for whatever reason.

Rooster .

PS. I think it would be fun also .

[Sedalia Dave]

7 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

My initial attraction to SASS was precisely that it wasn't more plinking with 22s. The idea of shooting big bore 44 or 45 caliber single action revolvers really excited me. I always shot 44 Specials and occasionally 45 Colt.

 

That's the beauty of CAS. Within reason, you can shoot the caliber and load you want. 

 

Some of us shoot mouse fart loads, some shoot middle of the road, some of us shoot Wart Hog loads, some shoot that new fangled smokeless powder, and some of us aspire to be Soot Lords.  Some are out to shoot as fast as possible. Others couldn't care less about their times.

 

All the above plus the camadrie is what keeps me shooting CAS. There is a place for everyone to play the game as we like. No other shooting sport comes close.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2025 by Sedalia Dave

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

How many of those advocating for a official .22 category would be traveling to either the National or World Championships to compete in that category on that stage.  So many of you talk of costs for reloading and arms in the center-fire categories as justification for such a new category.  Given the costs associated with attending just those two events as well as attending the various Regional & State championships, (not to mention the additional costs to the host organizations), I wonder about the cost/benefit to the governing body (SASS).  Would the value of adding 1,000 new members to the rolls of SASS equate to even a 100 new entrants at large events... maybe just 10... 5... maybe only 2?  Would the cost savings on ammo for shooting every monthly match available to me, exceed the cost of adding such firearms to my collection; AND include the cost to even attend one of these large, multi-day, prestigious matches?  Frankly, I would postulate, not!  I firmly believe that if your leisure-time monetary & time budget allows you to travel and compete in these events, you can afford centerfire ammo, whether you buy same or make your own.

 

My personal, and long-standing feelings of the whole of the category question is that every call for a new category has been fueled by self-centered interests.  Often felt by a large number of members... but self-serving, none-the-less.  

 

Not many here have seen the proliferation of categories from a real historical view... Well, I'll share this from my unofficial historical records.

The first two EOTs, 11982 & 1983 had 2 categories, Male & Female.  

1984 saw the addition of "Modern".  

1986 had the "Blackpowder" category added.

1987 had "International" added.

1988 added "Traditional"

1989  the addition of "Junior" and "Senior".

1990 rang in Frontier Cartridge and the loss of the "Blackpowder" category.

1993 saw the addition of "Junior Girls" & "Duelist" to the list.

1994 added "Ladies Traditional" as a category.

1997 the "Frontiersman" category was added.

1998 was the first year for "Ladies B-Western", "Lady Duelist", "Lady Senior" & "Ladies International".  

1999 is the 1st year I have a winner listed for "Gunfighter" & "Elder Statesman"; and the last year an "International" award was presented.

2001 added "Senior Duelist".

2003 had "49'er","Lady 49'er", "Ladies Gunfighter" & "Classic Cowboy" added.

2004 has the 1st listing for "Grande Dame".

2005 adds "Buckaroo", "Buckarette", "B-Western", "Classic Cowgirl", "Lady Frontier Cartridge", & Lady Frontrier Cartridge Duelist".

2007 added "Lady Senior Gunfighter" & Silver Senior Gunfighter".

2008 added "Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge Duelist", & was the last year "Modern" & "Traditional" in both men's and ladies categories were honored.  Replaced in

2009 by "Lady Wrangler", & "Wrangler".

 

From there on, it seems as tho' it's mostly age based divisions of shooting style, propellant, or costume categories.

 

Remember, my list is "unofficial", and may contain some mistakes as shuffling around categories has created a couple of gaps that I've tried to fix to the best of my ability, but...  Also note that a couple of category name changes have occured... and I've tried to keep my record in accordance with the latest category name.  The early days (pre-1990) is largely based on the memory of a couple of shooters as actual records from then don't seem to exist.  (If you find one an error, please let me know, as I'd like to have an accurate, if unofficial record).

 

 All the above to say... Adding a .22 caliber category to a shoot like EOT or Land Run is likely to ultimately add several divisions of style, costume, along with gender & age divisions that will become onerous to the parent and host organizations.   Be (insert favored navel expletive here) happy if your local club allows you to shoot with your .22s!  Methinks you doth ask too much.

 

I was not trying to advocate for having it at State, Regional, or Above matches, although I could certainly see my  post being interpreted that way.  This was more about "Allowing It or Not at all" in the game we play.  Monthly Matches, even club annuals, is where my thoughts were really headed.  I have no problem if SASS were to say that it was specifically "Not Allowed" at ANY Sanctioned Match, but the person with whom I was discussing this thought it should be ended completely, and that was the basis for my post.

 

I absolutely agree that if someone is willing to spend what it costs to attend Land Run, EOT, or any of the Regional Matches, then they should step up and play the game with the big guns.  But I will also note that EOT and Land Run are about the only matches that are selling out.  In the old days, if you didn't have your app into any State Level or above match within a couple weeks of the application being posted, you were not getting in.  Today, with a few rare exceptions, those same matches are seeing attendance at about 50% of capacity, so folks know they can wait until the last minute to register, and a lot of them do.  How can a match director possibly recruit Vendors or Sponsors for a match that may end up with 50 shooters, but site at 15 or 20 until 3 or 4 weeks before the match date.   (Sorry for the thread derail, just more data on the pile...)

 

For this sport to survive, we need new shooters because the older shooters are fading away, and that is happening faster and faster every day.  If this gets them in the door, I see no reason not to keep it alive, at least at the local level.  If they decide to stay, and upgrade their hardware, that is awesome, but if they are only going to go out an play Cowboy once a month, 8-9 times a year, let them shoot the .22s, learn the game, support the local clubs, and have some fun.  Some of our Deuces Wild folks have never shot a cowboy match other than at our club in the 4 or 5 years they have been doing this.  They aren't winning any awards that matter to anybody but them.

 

 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

As a 36 year old in this sport, I have friends my age I have brought shooting. But I can't get any of them into the sport because the cost to join is so high when these people are neither reloaders nor own any of the right guns either. 

 

I am just fortunate enough to have a high income as an engineer and other than my gun addiction I am very fiscally responsible, as is my wife. 

 

Time is another factor. I have a Dillon XL650 that is all setup to rock n roll out 45 colt and I struggle to have the time to keep my guns fed most months. It's just hard to find time in the garage with young kids that I have to keep a close eye on (my 2 boys are hell on wheels!).

 

As Dog Meat Dad pointed out, 22LR rounds can be bought for under 10 cents each right now. In my area the only primers in stock are also 10 cents each so it's significantly cheaper to shoot 22LR than to reload anything. So with 22LR not being an official category I think that makes it hard to hang on to new shooters who know they can't shoot at bigger matches otherwise if they so choose to in the future. 

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

3 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

That's the beauty of CAS. Within reason, you can shoot the caliber and load you want. 

 

Some of us shoot mouse fart loads, some shoot middle of the road, some of us shoot Wart Hog loads, some shoot that new fangled smokeless powder, and some of us aspire to be Soot Lords.  Some are out to shoot as fast as possible. Others couldn't care less about their times.

 

All the above plus the camadrie is what keeps me shooting CAS. There is a place for everyone to play the game as we like. No other shooting sport comes close.

 

 

 

 

What I tell folks is that Cowboy Action is a sport where you can be as Competitive, or as Un-Competitive, as you choose to be! 

[Shawnee Hills]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

How many of those advocating for a official .22 category would be traveling to either the National or World Championships to compete in that category on that stage.  So many of you talk of costs for reloading and arms in the center-fire categories as justification for such a new category.  Given the costs associated with attending just those two events as well as attending the various Regional & State championships, (not to mention the additional costs to the host organizations), I wonder about the cost/benefit to the governing body (SASS).  Would the value of adding 1,000 new members to the rolls of SASS equate to even a 100 new entrants at large events... maybe just 10... 5... maybe only 2?  Would the cost savings on ammo for shooting every monthly match available to me, exceed the cost of adding such firearms to my collection; AND include the cost to even attend one of these large, multi-day, prestigious matches?  Frankly, I would postulate, not!  I firmly believe that if your leisure-time monetary & time budget allows you to travel and compete in these events, you can afford centerfire ammo, whether you buy same or make your own.

 

Forget the World, National, Regionals, and even, perhaps, annuals.  How many folks begin shooting CAS with the goal of scoring well at a big match in mind?  The vast majority are plenty happy simply attending the monthlies and that is where recruiting efforts should be focused.  If allowing the use of .22s brings folks to the game, why on earth wouldn't that be acceptable; even if it means an extra category at the local level?

 

Those saying that new shooters need to suck it up and pay their money seem incapable of putting themselves in another's shoes.  Dropping a bunch of Benjamin's on decent equipment for CAS is a big ask for a young family and enduring pressure to do so will chase them elsewhere.   

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Another option to consider.

At something like EoT, there is a side match.  One stage of of 10-10-4.    Ten .22 Pistol, Ten .22 Rifle, 4 shotgun.  It's a side match.  No one has to do it, and it doesn't take anything away from anyone who does or does not do it.

[Crisco]

Although .22s got started in this area as a way to avoid hunting for rifle brass in the snow, we have more than one club in the area that allow .22s any time you want to shoot them.  We just figure out what to call the category when needed, “Senior Buckaroo” being one example.  We have even included “mild bunch” in our Wild Bunch matches allowing .22 1911s and rifles.

I do not think it has brought in any new shooters though.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

1 hour ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

 

 

What I tell folks is that Cowboy Action is a sport where you can be as Competitive, or as Un-Competitive, as you choose to be! 

 

That's not exclusive to SASS.