Well, I got myself in fine mess now.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Loaded up some .45 ACP rounds and took them to the range this morning.

First off they would not feed. When they did feed they went bang just fine and

threw the empty brass out as normal.

 

My first reaction was that the magazine was shot. But after working the problem I

think it might have been my selection of bullets. I loaded some 230 grain and 185 grain

HORNADY hollow points. They seem to be the culprit.

 

Came home and loaded some dummy rounds with just the brass cartridge and bullet,

no primer, no powder. Working them through the action, they seem to suffer from the

same problem.

 

I have some lead round nose bullets in .452 that I might try to see if I can replicate the

issue or if it is going to work. If it does, I guess the next step would be to polish the ramp?

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Maybe. Maybe Not. 1911's are notorious for being picked what they will eat. It may just be matter of finding it's (the 1911) favorite food.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

"My first reaction was the magazine is shot."

 

Since you use a singular term are you saying you are only using one magazine?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

"My first reaction was the magazine is shot."

 

Since you use a singular term are you saying you are only using one magazine?

No, I used three.

 

I did find a bag of Winchester 230 grain round nose bullets. Going to work with them to

see if it is a bullet issue. I suspect that it is.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Colt?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Springfield 1911 A1 Milspec

 

Springfield mags.

 

I'm leaning more toward the feed ramp.

But according to the printed word, Springfield "CLAIMS" that the ramps were polished

to take any and all bullets. Maybe not, Springfield.

 

I want to try my Round nosed Winchester 230s to see if they feed better.

Won't be able to get to the range again until next week end.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

What do you mean by not feed? Where was the stoppage? Did the bullet noses stop on the feed ramp? Did they not fully chamber? Did they stove pipe? Not feeding can mean several things.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

No stove pipes. Bullets stopped against the rear bottom of the ramp. Did not feed into the chamber.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Try loading dummy rounds with a loose fit bullet and use the barrel as your sizing gauge.

 

When working with cowboys who have decided to try Wild Bunch, when they loaded lead bullets they loaded to standard length and they would not feed.

Looking over the rounds with a set of calipers, the lead bullets do not taper as quick as the normal ACP bullet sharps and were hitting the barrel before the case hits the step.

So, the lead bullets needed to be set a little deeper in to the case to feed.

 

If you dummy rounds are not seeding or completely chambering, try setting the bullet a little deeper in the case.

 

You can also put graphite on the bullet and then drop it in the chamber and push with your finger.

Then take it out and see if the graphite shows a ring around the bullet just above the brass.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I reseated the bullets deeper into the case. There was a small improvement but they still hang up on either the bottom of the barrel or on the ramp. It looks to me like the ramp.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Using your barrel as a sizing gauge is a waste of time. Might as well throw your ammo in a milk jug. The barrel will "gauge" about 70% of the cartridge. So nless you sit there and turn the cartridge 360 degrees in the barrel, you won't know if it does any good.

Besides, the ammo is stopping before it even gets to the chamber. Badger, can you post pics of the hand loads next to some of that Winchester ball you mentioned? Sounds like it could be a length problem or magazine issue still.

And before I'd recommend polishing anything on the gun, I would have a professional look at it. Especially if you've never done it before.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, I appreciate all of your comments and I apologize for my poor communications skills.

I think before I do anything, I will sleep on the problem and then look at it again in the light

of a new day. I have a strong suspicion that the hollow point bullets are the culprit. Never had

this issue before today.

Since I can't get back to the range until next week end due to other commitments, I have time

to work on the issue.

Funny thing is, there seems like a lot of mojo in loading the .45 APC. Maybe because it is a semi automatic.

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Brother, I don't believe there is that much to loading 45 Auto. The last few years, I have loaded several tens of thousands of rounds of Wild Bunch ammo that has worked through at least 8 different guns.

And there is absolutely no need to apologize! Just trying to figure out what's going on.

Feel free to PM me and I'll do everything I can to help.

BD

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Brother, I don't believe there is that much to loading 45 Auto. The last few years, I have loaded several tens of thousands of rounds of Wild Bunch ammo that has worked through at least 8 different guns.

And there is absolutely no need to apologize! Just trying to figure out what's going on.

Feel free to PM me and I'll do everything I can to help.

BD

Thank you. You will probably hear from me, and when I get this thing solved I will let everybody know.

We may even have a party on my TAB.

[Tom Bullweed]

My Dan Wesson gave me similar issues in the past. It ended up being a worn mag catch. Mags that worked well in my other 1911 were not sitting high enough in the DW for the top cartridge to feed correctly.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, I thought it might be a mag problem, Tom. But I tried three different mags and they all seemed had the same issue.

Right now, I am leaning more to the bullet seating and the type. IIRC it did feed hollow points at one time, but that was

only a few and long ago in a far away galaxie.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, maybe it is just bad karma. I tried the dummy rounds again this morning and they fed ok.

Yesterday I set the seating die a little deeper but I still had issues. After testing this morning

I think I may have been the bad factor by not releasing the slide with enough pressure to feed

the round. In any event, I will re-test the bullets I have next week end to see where I am.

 

I am still looking at polishing the feed ramp, but as a wise man once told me, IF IT AIN'T BROKE

DON'T FIX IT.

[Lead Monger]

Can't see how polishing the feed ramp could hert. Mine is mirror bright and feeds everything.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Fellow recommended using 800 grit sandpaper. Heard other say 400 and some say 1000.

Wondering if sandpaper or emery paper would be in order and then what to polish with.

Any suggestions will be welcome.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

I had a 1911 parts gun (Essex frame, Colt series 70 slide, colt barrel that simply would not feed hollowpoints. I tried everything I had ever learned, read or thought about the subject and nothing worked. In the end I simply shot round nose lead. That's what it liked and was reliable with. I wish you better luck with yours

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, I got the hollow points to feed but I am still a bit shaky on the matter.

A trip to the range and no hang up will instill a great deal of confidence in me.

 

I just made a date with David, Willie Wheelgun's son, to meet him in

Renton on the 30th to check out the RUCUS cowboy match and shoot some

.45 ACP at the pistol range. He is joining SASS and awaiting the paper work

from the home office. I gave him the phone number to call on Monday and

see if we can get things rolling. I don't think he has an Alias as yet, but when

he does, I will post it.

[Shawnee McGrutt]

Badger, I have the same 1911. She has never been to fussy as to what is loaded into her. I mostly shot UMC, 230 with a jacket. I have ran several boxes of hollow points, without a hitch. I have also ran reloads, without issues.

Yes Springfield says, the ramps are polished.

Keep us posted, I am interested.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thanks for the update. I am leaning more and more to operator error. Looking at the C.O.A.L.

Looking at the manual again, always good to ask directions on the highway to disaster, the bullets

seem to be a tad long. I shortened them up and they seem to work through the action well with the

inert rounds. I will make a trip to the range again and test my theory.

 

I really like the pistol and love to shoot it. But I like for it to go bang with a round in the chamber

when I pull the trigger.

 

IF the reloads work as I hope, and I can settle on a powder and load data that I like, I will be off like a

dirty shirt. Next program will be to polish the ramp. Like the man said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But polishing the ramp should make things work smoother, wouldn't ya think?

[Boggus Deal #64218]

BMC,

Cartridge over all length with a round nose FMJ or lead bullet will be different than with a HP bullet. Think of seating the HP bullet as if you took a round nose and cut the nose off.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I know 1911s and other semi-autos can be sensitive to hollow points. That's why I leave hollow points to factory ammo. I don't target shoot with them as I don't see the point, and won't use anything but factory for carry guns, so I just keep a box or two of Winchesters around for self-defense. My Colt and baby Glock (9mm) digest them just fine.

 

My 1911 reloads are 200 gr lead RNFPs for Wild bunch and paper targets. Never a problem. Never had the itch to expand on bullets beyond those.

 

Point of reference, in case its applicable: my Winchester 230 JHPs COL is 1.21. My 200 gr lead RNFPs are 1.197. The lead bullets have more of a curved shape than the blunt end of the JHP.

 

My 2 cents, nothing more. Hopin' you find a solution and will post results!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I think I might have a handle on the issue. Will not know until I test it out at the range and I can't get to the range until next Saturday. When all else fail, read the reloading manual a little closer. I reseated the bullets and the dummy rounds run like

poop through a goose. Update will follow after the range session. Thanks for you help.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Just got back from the range test firing my 1911. Had some success with only two stove pipes, that was new, and three failure to feed into the chamber. Rest all worked just fine.

The failure to feed properly seemed to be when the magazine was full. When I loaded no more than four rounds, everything worked fine. Could be a magazine issue too.

 

Although I was not trying to punch out the black spot, the rounds all seemed to find the target

so the action was working ok except for feeding.

 

I think I will concentrate on the rounds for now, and then later on polishing the ramp and getting some information o the magazines.

 

This could be an all summer project, requiring a lot of shooting. Oh well, somebody has to do.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, I think the issue is in the magazines. Will know more after the next range session.

Now my problem is I know nothing about magazine culture. I did call Springfield and

was told that polishing the ramp might void the warranty. But the bullets, seated to the

proper C.O.A.L. seem to load ok. When I get down to the last three or four round in the

magazine is when the problem seems to manifest itself. I take that to be a magazine

problem, perhaps a spring issue.

 

Springfield is sending me instructions on disassembly of their magazines, but that will not

tell me what to do to fix the problem. I guess patients in a virtue in this case and to take

one step at a time. At least I am learning things that I did not know about a 1911, or forgot

from 55 years ago.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

When I worked at Brownells I seemed to get dumber and dumber. When I started I didn't know one thing, I didn't know anything about the 1911. As I put a 1911 together from parts I realized there were dozens of things I didn't know about the 1911. Once assembled and I started shooting it and things like trigger pull, fitting bushings and adjusting overtravel and reset I realized there were hundreds of things I didn't know about the 1911. The more I learned about the gun it seemed the more I needed to know.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Mr. Browning was protecting his interest.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

When I bought my Colt 1911 (used) it came with one one 7-round Colt magazine. I bought 4 Chip McCormick 8-round magazines from Midway USA and everything has been flawless, provided I did my part on stuffing them with proper ammo. For about the same price in my area, one could buy a box of factory ammo, but that doesn't wouldn't do anything except to suggest it's the ammo.

 

Every now and then (rarely) I disassemble and clean the mags. I don't know enough about them to fix 'em, so if they fail me, at $19 apiece, I'll just buy some new ones. But that hasn't happened yet.

 

Badger my good friend, polishing the ramp and thus voiding the warranty, is the last thing I'd recommend until you've exhausted all other possibilities. Buy a couple of new mags and if that doesn't solve it, focus on your ammo. Whenever I've had a problem, it's due to the ammo I made and not the hardware.

 

Please keep us posted. Good luck!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, I am getting ready to reload some rounds for a trip to the range later in the week.

A report will follow. I am confident about the ammunition for now. I think I found the

weak link and fixed it. But time will tell. I do want to see what Springfield has to say

about their magazines. Just my stubborn nature I guess. I may purchase a couple of

other brands if things go south this week. Give you the break down when I have it,

Thanks for the tips. For now polishing the ramp is on the back burner. When I do,

I think I will just polish it with metal polish and not use an abrasive of any sort.

[ShadowCatcher]

Well, I am getting ready to reload some rounds for a trip to the range later in the week.

A report will follow. I am confident about the ammunition for now. I think I found the

weak link and fixed it. But time will tell. I do want to see what Springfield has to say

about their magazines. Just my stubborn nature I guess. I may purchase a couple of

other brands if things go south this week. Give you the break down when I have it,

Thanks for the tips. For now polishing the ramp is on the back burner. When I do,

I think I will just polish it with metal polish and not use an abrasive of any sort.

Hey partner -

 

Gimme a yell a day or so in advance of when you're going. I'll come along and bring my 1911 and

several magazines, we can do a little investagatory work - and make some holes in paper.

You have me curious as to "what's up doc"!

 

Shadow Catcher

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thinking of going down to Renton this week end to meet David Schell. He wants to get started in SASS.

I do not know his alias as yet. Maybe I will learn it on the week end. More when I get some detail.

[Dubious Don #56333]

I doubt its the ramp Springfield sets their guns up pretty well. I don't mean to sound rude but why does everyone always ASSUME the feed ramp is the culprit and break out the dremel to "POLISH" the ramp right from the get-go? I've fixed more of these butcher jobs than I can remember. Some of my friends are cussing Dubious under their breath because guess how a gunsmith makes money? Leave the ramp alone for now. (here's a thought; if all three of the magazines tried are equally worn, maybe its all three that need springs...hold that thought)

 

Ok, sorry, rant off.

 

All 1911 magazines are not equal. GI type (there are several) present the rounds at a somewhat flat angle compared to Chip McCormick with the Shooting Star followers. One of the reasons they use those followers is it presents the rounds at a nose high angle more than 'standard' which improves feeding. Wilson mags use a different style follower but the feed lips are different. Those usually work well.

 

The first thing that goes when the magazine spring gets weak is that nose high profile...goes away. It will still feed but you can actually feel it (or at least I usually can) because when the gun cycles you can feel the hitch as the slide goes forward, kind of a ker-chunk as the bullet (and it depends on the type of bullet) hits the lower ramp (on the frame) just a little too low but the recoil spring is just strong enough to shove it in there. If you run a competition gun with an 18-20-22 pound recoil spring you can get away with some really crap mags because the recoil spring is going to shove that round in there unless its way off. No, don't go out and buy a heavy recoil spring....there's more involved than just that one spring. (tell ya a funny story at the end)

 

THAT by the by, is something else to check. In addition to the magazine spring, the MAJOR cause of feed issues in the 1911 isd that recoil spring. (Hint...Brownells type B 16lb ten pack)

 

It's cheaper to replace the springs in your magazines providing the feed lips aren't bent. New mag springs and a recoil spring. You tried several different bullet profiles? Overall lengths and the problem is still there? Probably not the ammo.

 

Some bullet profiles just don't feed for sour owl crap. The 168 H&G, basically a semi-wadcutter. Yeah, it feeds fine if you set the gun up right for it. I shot a crapload of these, casted'em on my kitchen counter right next to the stove of course (one burner for the lead pot, the other for cooking dinner) way back in the day in a Colt Commander with the original stingy feed ramp which was my army-guy-on-a-budget IPSC gun. No throating, no nothing. That gun even fed the Sierra 185 JHP which had a really wide flat nose. Hardest bullet I ever saw to set a gun up to feed with. I still got some set up as action dummies and guess what I still use'em for? LOL Back in the day ever-dang-thing was a custom thing, feedramps, porting, beveling, tuning before the factories got wise and started doing that stuff right out of the box..

 

So, that there pistola of your'n ought to feed FMJ's even with shady magazines. If it don't, springs. If you use lead round nose, not all of them are the same profile as FMJ. They're a little poinmtier some'a them. A little shorter too and that changes things. You can adjust the OAL but you already knew that.

 

The only other thing it might be, is the extractor. When the slide goes forward, the stripping rail at the bottom of the breech pushes that top round forward. Bullet hits ramp just about the time it gets far enough forward in the magazine lips to tip up and aim for the chamber. Just after that the feed lips release the back end of the cartridge and it pops up (that's another ker-chunk you feel when the gun cycles) The head of the cartridge slides up the breechface sliding UNDER the extractor as it goes up. There's an angle at the bottom of the extractor hook that needs to be just so for this to happen. Yes it can wear, yes there can be crap in there to FUBAR things up. Being weak as in worn doesn't cause this but being too heavy does. When the thing "jams" it looks a lot like a feed malfunction on the ramp end...but it ain't.

 

So now for my funny story;

 

The drug detectives run across this bozo who was selling, in addition to meth, wacky-weed and the odd assorted pill, modifying Glocks to full auto. He told'em how he did it but they didn't believe'em so they called the "gun guy". I got one of the Office guns out of the vault, followed the rather simple directions...yep it works as a machinegun. Told'em to box that sucker up and put it in evidence and I'd test it official like so they could take it to the County Attorney all nice and tidy with a pretty little bow on it.. Later. But then my cohort/partner said that wouldn't happen with a 1911...go full auto. Will...betcha won't...betcha a twenty.... (little did he know that the week before one of the guys, who had "fixed" his duty pistol with a 22 pound recoil spring and couldn't understand why it was firing two and three rounds at a time so he brought it to me to fix) I got me a twenty! (There's a reason Brownells/Wolff sells those heavy recoil spring kits WITH an extra power firing pin spring)