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Subdeacon Joe

Winter Care of Lts

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Go ahead. A Bad Tolz story?

Yup. Und schifahren.

:)

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Please pardon my ignorance. I understand a Master Chief is feared and revered next to God but isn't a MC an NCO and an Ensign an officer or an officer wannabe. I've heard that a MC doesn't outrank most officers but most officers don't give MCs many orders. What is the protocol here? Thanks

BTW, I love your stories.

I have been witness to more than a few run ins between a senior NCO and the officer corps while in the Navy. Have never seen the officer come out on the winning end even if they win the battle they always loose the war. Funny part is that the Officer always seemed to be one of those that most of the enlisted had little respect for. Those that earned the respect of the enlisted they served with never seemed to have any problems.

 

One thing I did learn in the Navy was to always look at the ribbons a Navy junior officer was wearing. If they had that little red Good Conduct Ribbon you knew to give them the benefit of the doubt because they had at one time been enlisted before getting their commission.

Navy called them Limited Duty Officers or LDOs and to become one you had to have been a CPO. There was an exception that allowed First Class Petty officers to apply for CWO/LDO if they were CPO selection board eligible. You had to be a pretty exceptional First Class Petty Officer to actually make CWO/LDO so they were few and far between.

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Funniest thing I ever had happen was meeting three Midshipmen while a group of us were walking over to the chow hall for mid-rats one night and having them salute us. Those poor guys looked so young that we wondered if they even had to shave. It was the end of our shift and had turned off really cold and windy so we were wearing our green flight deck coats. Guess they thought we Pilots or NFOs wearing flight jackets.

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We had a 2nd Lt assigned to our unit that was every cliched embodiment of what a 2nd Lt should not be. Little, weak eyed, stoop shouldered and quiet. We knew he would be the butt of jokes throughout the unit but also knew he had to make his own way through them.

A Staff Sgt decided that he would do everything he could to embarrass the young man and he started by giving the Lt no respect and pulled all of the disrespectful tricks that NCOs sometime use.

I don't know what the final insult was but I know that my office window faced the motor pool and I first noticed that the Sgt was standing at boot camp attention with the Lt's nose about 3 inches from the Sgt's shirt buttons. The conversation went on for about 15 minutes before the Sgt was allowed to take one step backward, salute, do an about face and march to the 1st Sgt's office.

I caught the Lt and asked what the problem was and the Lt looked at me and said "Problem? What problem, sir?"

I went to the 1st Sgt and asked if he knew what the problem was and got the same answer. Upon further questioning the 1st Sgt said that the Lt and the Staff Sgt had had a little disagreement on what constituted correct military courtesy between a Lt and a Staff Sgt. The 1st Sgt had been in a location to observe the incident and he told me that the Staff Sgt had deserved what he got which was the most masterful chewing he (1st Sgt) had ever heard.

Strangely enough, Lt Dupree had no further problems with any of the enlisted men and became one of the better officers in the unit.

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Noz, I had a fine lieutenant who was very much like LT Dupree. We are still friends today and maintain personal contact with one another.

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Noz,

 

Thanks for the story. As a maverick, I did not put up with the NCO tricks, as I knew most of them.

Glad to see a good story on the thread, as all those great Generals and Senior Officers people laud about were Lieutenants once. I am retiring and became a Lieutenant AGAIN...Lieutenant Colonel that is.

 

Colonel Lou

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There was a period of about 6 or 7 months where I had guard duty every fourth day. Well, if it's worth doing it's worth doing well so I took up the challenge to be Colonel's Orderly. In HQ Battery, this was easy because few guys there gave a rat's patootie. After a few months I got transferred to Special Weapons squad in a firing battery. The guys there said "You're in a firing battery now." Those guys would actually watch the guard mount (from our third floor windows).

 

We would ask about all the new 2Lts and how they tested the guards, especially how they inspected the rifles and what kinds of questions they would ask. For some we would read the front page of Stars and Stripes during breakfast.

 

I recall letting go of my rifle about 1/8 second before Lt Troutman's hand grabbed it. Heard the Oooohs and ahhhs from the battery's windows.

 

Thinking back, it was a little funny because I always had an indoor guard post. The guys who had to walk the outdoor posts had more incentive to exceed.

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Hell, nobody wants to hear Good stories about 2Lts.

;)

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Hell, nobody wants to hear Good stories about 2Lts.

;)

 

Sure we do, Bob...

 

Lay one on us! ^_^

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Well at least he was thinking ahead. That's a part of leadership. ;)

 

He was (I assume still is) exceedingly intelligent. Leader? Not so much.

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Sure we do, Bob...

 

Lay one on us! ^_^

I always paid my bar tab on payday. ;)

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I always paid my bar tab on payday. ;)

 

:lol:

 

A debt of honor satisfied. ^_^

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During my Army career, I only encountered one Second Lieutenant that didn't make First Lieutenant. He had lost the code book (SECRET)...twice. Sometimes he'd fly into screaming fits. I was a warrant officer at the time and once I had to physically retrain him to keep him from damaging high value equipment.

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Master Chiefs and Sergeants Major are the highest ranking of NCOs. Their decades of service and military knowledge far exceed that of junior officers. They understand they are not commissioned officers. But woe betide the Ensign or 2Lt who attempts to pull rank.

They will follow, advise and respect good officers. But that respect must be earned.

 

 

I once had the pleasure of overhearing a First Sergeant dressing down a Lieutenant Colonel. Very polite, very respectful, with every term of respect dripping with scorn. But not a single thing that the officer could call him on for disrespect or insubordination.

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I once had the pleasure of overhearing a First Sergeant dressing down a Lieutenant Colonel. Very polite, very respectful, with every term of respect dripping with scorn. But not a single thing that the officer could call him on for disrespect or insubordination.

It's an art. :D

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It's an art. :D

Here is a letter supposedly written by Wellington when he was Viscount Wellington. There is disagreement as to whether Wellington actually wrote this letter, but it does illustrate the "art" Utah Bob mentioned.

 

MESSAGE FROM WELLINGTON TO THE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE IN LONDON -- written from Central Spain, August 1812

 

Gentlemen,

Whilst marching from Portugal to a position which commands the approach to Madrid and the French forces, my officers have been diligently complying with your requests which have been sent by H.M. ship from London to Lisbon and thence by dispatch to our headquarters.

We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tents and tent poles, and all manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's Government holds me accountable. I have dispatched reports on the character, wit, and spleen of every officer. Each item and every farthing has been accounted for, with two regrettable exceptions for which I beg your indulgence.

Unfortunately the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains unaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has been a hideous confusion as the number of jars of raspberry jam issued to one cavalry regiment during a sandstorm in western Spain. This reprehensible carelessness may be related to the pressure of circumstance, since we are at war with France, a fact which may come as a bit of a surprise to you gentlemen in Whitehall.

This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions from His Majesty's Government so that I may better understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as given below. I shall pursue either one with the best of my ability, but I cannot do both:

1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London or perchance,

2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.

Your most obedient servant

Wellington

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Interesting.

I'm going to put that in the same category as Yamamoto's supposed "rifle behind every blade of grass" statement though. :D

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:o And all of these years that I have been cutting my grass.

 

Alas, I may have destroyed thousands if not millions of guns.

 

I could be the poster boy for the anti gun community.

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During my Army career, I only encountered one Second Lieutenant that didn't make First Lieutenant. He had lost the code book (SECRET)...twice. Sometimes he'd fly into screaming fits. I was a warrant officer at the time and once I had to physically retrain him to keep him from damaging high value equipment.

I have seen three that didn't make First Lieutenant. Two came from commissioning sources where English was a second language and they struggled in their verbal and written communication so they were not recommended for promotion. Third one had UCMJ issues. Failure to adapt from college to military life.

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In the same group that brought us Lt Dupre came another that shall remain un-named.

He was lazy, stupid and generally incompetent. To make a long story short, his reputation spread rapidly and we could not even give him away. He really was a nice guy, pleasant, could sing well but any job given to him was sure to be screwed up.

We made him Assistant Communication Officer where none was listed on TOE.

He spent most of his day light hours doing the crossword in the Stars and Stripes.

After 14 months or so we were on a field problem when a problem arose that none of us (the other Lts) could solve. He walked in took a look and gave us the answer. He immediately got a "deer in the headlights-I've screwed up" look as we all turned to look at him.

The little SOB was brilliant. He had decided to play the part of the dummy and do as little as possible for his 18 months in Germany.

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During my Army career, I only encountered one Second Lieutenant that didn't make First Lieutenant. He had lost the code book (SECRET)...twice. Sometimes he'd fly into screaming fits. I was a warrant officer at the time and once I had to physically retrain him to keep him from damaging high value equipment.

 

3 times I can recall in 20 years of being in the Navy

 

One was a Navy Lt jg that was a very bad navigator. The individual in question was the navigator for one of the aircraft while on deploymenat as part of war games. Violated a not so friendly nations airspace twice on the same deployment. Second time Det OIC grounded the individual. Once back at home plate the individual in question permanently lost their wings.

 

2nd time the an individual performed an unbriefed manuver as part of a photo op. Don't know his/her rank as I was part of the contractor test team and not part of the squadron.

Pilot literally came within inches of destroying 3 Navy FA-18 Super Hornets in flight. Pilot in question attempted to do an unbriefed barrel roll over two other aircraft flying in tight formation. Screwed up the manuver and passed between the two aircraft instead of over them. Had his plane not been with the wings oriented just prefectly in the vertical plane he would have struck the wings of the other two aircraft. The entire incident was captured on video by a Photographers Mate in the back seat.

Individual was told on the radio to immediately RTB. But instead of doing as told, the pilot decided to perform an unauthorized high speed low level through a nearby canyon. This manuver used up almost all the fuel the jet had so that by the time the aircraft landed it was running on fumes. Pilot had tried to hide the low fuel state but that is pretty hard to do when one of your engines flames out due to fuel starvation while taxing back to the ramp.

Pilot was grounded and Admiral's Mast was held a few days later. Admiral made a memorable example of the individual as a warning to any future Tom Cruise wannabes that failing to follow the rules was bad for their careers and pocketbooks.

 

3rd time an Ensign got into an argument with a First Class supply clerk. Ensign took a swing at the PO1 but was a little short and just grazed the PO1 on the chin. Instead of walking away the PO1 swung back. Only thing was the PO1 had a crow bar in his hand and tagged the Ensign across the temple with it rather than his fist.

 

Ensign came away with a crease in his skull and some permanent brain damage. The PO1 became an Airman (E-3). Lots of witnesses to the incident from start to finish and to a man all stated that the Ensign started the argument and was 100% at fault. At mast the Skipper told the PO1 that if he has just used his fist rather than the crow bar he would have dismissed the charges against him. However because the Ensign suffered permanent brain damage he couldn't just sweep the incident under the rug.

I only know about this one because I was standing next to the guy during a dress whites uniform inspection. A Sailor in dress uniform with 4 service stripes, a chest full of medals including a Navy Comendation Medal, Navy Achievement Medal and 4 Good Conduct awards that is also wearing airman stripes does tend to stand out. Having been in the squardon for only a couple of days I was unaware of the incident but learned the whole story in graphic detail over a few beers at the club later than day. Only person I ever heard of retiring after 20 years in the Navy with teh rank of airman.

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