Winchester/Miroku 1892 feeding problems

[Izzy Kwik]

Ok, I'm new to CAS and maybe jumped before I should have. I bought a new Winchester 1892 in .357 to go along with new Vaquero's with the intention of shooting 38 Special in all of them. No problems of course on the revolvers with the 38's but they don't feed worth a dang in the rifle. Will the rifle only feed properly with .357's or is there maybe an issue with the rifle? The 38's hang up at the chamber as well as the base of the cartridge seems to jump up too high part of the time also. It doesn't happen on every round, but probably 50% of the time or more. Any help would be appreciated. (Right now this would put a serious damper on my alias.)

[Tejano]

What kind of ammo are ya running in it? I believe to run smoothly you need to switch to a longer over sized round. Try Black Hills cowboy ammo if you aren't already. Also contact Cliff Hanger here on the board, he set me up with some darn good ammo to run in my 1866 when I was having problems.

[Billy Bristol]

Try using some .357 in it. If they work with no problem you can get some .38 reloaded ammo that is to the length of the .357

[Izzy Kwik]

Thanks Tejano. I was trying to run reloaded 38's. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch to .357 I guess, but I would like to run my own loads from an economical standpoint. Appreciate your suggestions.

[Izzy Kwik]

Try using some .357 in it. If they work with no problem you can get some .38 reloaded ammo that is to the length of the .357

 

Trying the .357's makes sense. Are you suggesting just seating the bullet shallower in the .38 cases, to the .357 length?

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

Find some 38s loaded to 1.5 inch. and with a smooth round flat nose bullet.

The 1892 was designed for tapered cases like the 44 W.C.F. and we are

feeding them straight wall cases.

That Nate Kiowa Jones fella has a dvd about fixing the 92 for cas.

He works on em but has a long wait list.

You COULD probably buy a 92 from him all ready to go.

Then have yours tuned later. Then you would have a good main and

a good backup. Yes a little expensive but good running guns are very easy to sell.

I am watching a couple new shooters try to make it with untuned rifles and it

is downright painful. They don't listen and think guns should come from

the factory ready for rapid accurate shooting. Ive loaned them some gear

but I wont sell mine yet.

Another alternative is to buy a tuned 92 from someone who sells one to get a 73.

Some think the 73 is the best cas rifle. Could be but I like marlins 94 and win 92.

Best

CR

[Snakebite]

Load you up some Snakebite Bullets in 38 cases... they have worked for a lot of folks... the OAL is right and the weight is forward which helps keep the nose down on the carrier.

[Flying W Ramrod]

+1 on the Snakebite bullets. Been running them since they came on the market with no hitches in the '73 or my wifes marlins.

162g rnfp, weight forward with a large lube groove for bp does the trick.

[Izzy Kwik]

Hey guys, thanks for all the quick responses and suggestions...looks like I have some work to do. I hear ya Chili Ron on what to expect/not to expect on out of the box stuff. Found that out on the Vaquero's but already did a "spring fix" and now they are buttery smooth. The '92 and the Stoeger are going to need some good TLC, but it's not a horse race for me, so hopefully they will be fun to work on too. I'll be trying the suggested loads/lengths and post back with the results.

[Pit Bull Tex]

Anvil Al at Lone Star Bullets makes and sells a157 gr. 38 cal that you can load to about any OAL you may want in 38 cases.It runs in any of my 92s and my 73s and my Lightning.

[Yusta B.]

Al's bullets are 147 gr TC with no crimp groove, They are excellent for adjusting OAL in .38s. If you use them be sure to adjust your crimp die for a firm crimp.

[Conejo Kid #51342]

Izzy,

 

I had a Winchester/Mirouku 1892 when I first started. Same problem. You will need to use 357 cartridges to get it to feed reliabily.

 

You also should consider reloading. You'll need to reload if you really get into this game anyway because the ammo expense is high. If money is no object, sell the 1892 and go straight to the Uberti 1873.

 

You can run light (cowboy) loads in 357 cases. Some people use 357 mag primers to ensure a good "light off". You can solve the problem(s) with a little extra effort/expense.

 

Your 1892 is a nice gun with excellent workmanship, fit and finish. Unfortunately, it is an entree level gun with a long "stiff" stroke that will never be close to an 1873 or even a slicked up Marlin. Unless you shoot B Western (and need the Marlin) go straight to the 1873. In my opinion the "JM" (old model) Marlins are overpriced since they stopped making the 1894. What you used to buy at Big 5 for $300, they now are asking $900 for a used gun!!!! You might as well spend a little more money and get the Uberti 1873. Ask some of the Cowboys at the club matches to try various rifles, then decide for yourself. You'll be happier with your choice, the next time around.

 

Good choice on the pistols -- those will last you a lifetime.

 

Now the shotgun -- that's a subject for another thread.

 

Good luck, CK

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

Try using some .357 in it. If they work with no problem you can get some .38 reloaded ammo that is to the length of the .357

This is what I had to do with my 92. I don't reload so I found this reloading service for cowboy shooters. He calls the long 38s "Marlin Longs". http://gunfirearms.com/

[Tom Bullweed]

Each gun is different, even within models and manufacturers. Every cowboy and cowgirl uses their guns way beyond the original intent.

The 1892 (and Marlin) feed the cartridge at an angle to the bore, which makes the cartridge guides the intolerant part of OAL.

The toggle-actions (1860Henry, 1866 and 1873) can be intolerant of OAL in the feed cutoff function of the carrier.

Find what your specific gun likes and duplicate it. Some amount of adjustability can be done. The 1892 is a super-strong action (compared to the toggle actions) but is compromises strength for OAL tolerance.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

The first thing to keep in mind is all leverguns are ammo length and bullet shape
sensitive. You don't think about it much if you are dealing with a rifle cal.
Most of those are bottleneck calibers. Bottlenecks always feed better than straightwall ammo, whether it is a rifle cal or a pistol cal. That's because you have a small diameter bullet going into a really big hole by comparison, the bottleneck chamber being much like a funnel.

 

The problems shows up the most with these short straightwall pistol cals. and it's even more common with cals like 38/357m and 44spec/44mag because of the diverse selection of ammos to chose from.

 

The original 92's were designed to work with bottleneck ammo in the 1.5" to 1.6" OAL. What that means is they don’t work well with really long 357’s or really short 38’s. Just keep in mind these pistol cal rifles are a lot like semi-auto pistols. There's just some ammo it's not going to work with.

To compound your particular problem, and one of the reasons I prefer the Rossi made 92 is because these new Winchester/Miruko made 92's still use the old shell guide design of the original 82. But, the problem is none of the originals were chambered for the straightwalls we use today. They were all bottleneck ammo. The old shell guide design will make the current guns more ammo sensitive with the straightwall chambering's.

Rossi has been making 92's for almost 50 years now. They redesigned the shell guides long ago just for this problem.

[Izzy Kwik]

I was able to find some 158 gr. RNFP bullets yesterday and loaded some to .357 OAL...will test them this morning when our range opens but they do seem to feed a lot better. I'm not real comfortable though loading them in the .38 cases and will probably just switch over to .357 cases.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Anvil Al at Lone Star Bullets makes and sells a157 gr. 38 cal that you can load to about any OAL you may want in 38 cases.It runs in any of my 92s and my 73s and my Lightning.

 

 

Al's bullets are 147 gr TC with no crimp groove, They are excellent for adjusting OAL in .38s. If you use them be sure to adjust your crimp die for a firm crimp.

 

 

Thanks.

I have both.

147 without a crimp groove

And the 157 with a crimp groove.

Both give you a long bullet for those that need it.

[Izzy Kwik]

Just got back from the range, the longer 158 gr. seems to have done the trick as the '92 never missed a lick...well, I did miss a few targets, but the cartridges performed like y'all suggested.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

[Hellgate #3302 L]

Izzy,

I have two Rossi '92s and shoot a variety of bullet shapes in them. Each shape has an OAL sweet spot". In working up a load I determine the sweet spot for that particular bullet that functions in BOTH of my guns. You can also load 38SPL cases out to .357 OAL (like the Snakebite bullet often is loaded). I make up 5 dummy cartridges at the maximum length I can get away with then load 'em in the magazine and rapidly rack them through the guns. Write down the OAL then seat them a little deeper, load and rack them through writng down the OAL each time. After about 5 or 6 reseatings to where they look just too short or they jam way too much I stop. In almost every case I found an OAL that functioned flawlessly for both rifles. I write that down in my load book so I can go back to it whenever that bullet becomes available at a good price. RN, RNFP and SWC all have differing OALs that run well. Once the OAL is found THEN I go to finding the most accurate powder charge for that bullet.

[Diamond S Doug]

I had the same problem with a bone stock Miroku '92 that wouldn't feed 38 specials. Even used some shorter .357 and it wouldn't feed. Sent it back to the factory and they said nothing was wrong with it, that it was designed and intended to shoot full length .357. Loaded all my 38 specials to 1.500" and it works fine. Used it with full length .357 and it works fine with those as well.