If you don't like it,change it.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Great post, Deuce!

 

What I find very interesting is that much of what you moved away from is what a few vocal folks ask for!

 

As some other match designers and top shooters have done, you have proven an ability to analyze the game and see what the majority of folks enjoy. Keep up the great work!

 

And as you recommend, if folks want to try something a little different, give it a try and see if it works out. But folks need to understand that match directors and stage writers over the years have experimented a LOT. So some of foks "new ideas" are not being seen because they didn't work out previously.

 

But sometimes folks do find something a little different that is fun and can be incorporated into matches.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Deuce,

 

By all accounts, you are an excellent shooter and a hard-working, skilled match director. Unfortunately, not everyone has your motivation, stamina, or skill.

 

Yet, everyone has an opinion. Sometimes one person has too many negative opinions and can be a jerk. Other times, an innocent comment can catch the MD at a bad time and he/she lashes out at any criticism. I am thinking of something that happened my first year shooting. It was hotter than - - - - and everyone on my posse was complaining about the large posse size. Stupid me, saw the MD sitting, wiping his head, and thought I could go make a reasonable request. I asked him if next time it was so hot he could make posses smaller so we could finish earlier. He tore me a new .... I went back to my posse and finished the last stage of the match feeling like an utter idiot and fighting tears the entire time. I didn't mean to be critical...

 

 

What I'm trying to say is not all complaints are without warrant and to keep an open mind. Or, at least be careful how you respond.

 

Sincerely,

 

Allie "who is still sad thinking about how this went down" Mo

 

PS I tried sending this as a PM but am blocked from doing so.

 

PPS What is this about? We don't even know each other.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

As Allie and others have said, feedback is very important.

 

I know many match directors and stage designers seek feedback. Of course, some days after they have listened to the same complainers saying the same things, they may not be as eager to hear feedback. But many know how to respond well, no matter what.

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

As you know Deuce I try to write stages that folks enjoy. This year at our state match I promised here on the wire that everything would be BIG and CLOSE. I think that we did deliver that. Most folks seemed to really enjoy the match. I had pards like you and Mose and Stan to proof my stages before I came up with a final version. I really appreciated that.

But even with most folks really enjoying the match you still have the same group that only has a negative comment. But.... these are the same folks who don't volunteer to help and run to the truck as soon as the last shot is fired so as I say " it's like water on a ducks back. It just rolls

Great post. I will be at Range War in 2013 it already in the budget. Hope to see you back in Georgia next year. You guys made it a GREAT match!!!

Thanks again for all your help .

Judge

[Oklahomabound]

...great post Deuce!

 

I got lucky and joined a club that has a bunch of hard w**king folks who have a good time with each other and enjoy this 'ere sport....

 

+1

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Well put young Grasshopper.

As you travel through life you will find that SASS is no different than any other social organization run mainly by volunteers. These thing I now know:

 

A lot of people show up for the fun and go home smiling.

A few people work their fingers to the bone to put on the event.

Some just complain about everything but they're not about to get off their butts and do anything.

 

It must be human nature cause I've seen it time and time again.

 

So like the song says...keep on the sunny side of life.

 

 

That pretty well sums it up, pard. No need to pile on with more...

[Blastmaster]

Everyone should be a Match Director at least once to get the experience. Kinda like everyone should attend a Big Match at least once to get the experience too.

 

Nothing like fielding a thousand 'helpfull' comments and suggestions w/o any clear solutions by all (it seems like all but in reality, it isn;t) the attending shooters. Kinda like having a whole bunch of critical backseat drivers.

 

I have learned to just smile and wave at the MD from now on. Give lots of praise and thank you too. Whomever has done their best. Some MD can just seem to do it better but the work from all is appreciated.

 

Blastmaster

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Hi Deuce,

 

By all accounts, you are an excellent shooter and a hard-working, skilled match director. Unfortunately, not everyone has your motivation, stamina, or skill.

 

Yet, everyone has an opinion. Sometimes one person has too many negative opinions and can be a jerk. Other times, an innocent comment can catch the MD at a bad time and he/she lashes out at any criticism. I am thinking of something that happened my first year shooting. It was hotter than - - - - and everyone on my posse was complaining about the large posse size. Stupid me, saw the MD sitting, wiping his head, and thought I could go make a reasonable request. I asked him if next time it was so hot he could make posses smaller so we could finish earlier. He tore me a new .... I went back to my posse and finished the last stage of the match feeling like an utter idiot and fighting tears the entire time. I didn't mean to be critical...

 

 

What I'm trying to say is not all complaints are without warrant and to keep an open mind. Or, at least be careful how you respond.

 

Sincerely,

 

Allie "who is still sad thinking about how this went down" Mo

 

PS I tried sending this as a PM but am blocked from doing so.

 

PPS What is this about? We don't even know each other.

 

Beleive me, Deuce keeps an open mind and is very fair when dealing with people and thier concerns.

 

GG ~

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I hate to be a descenting voice, and your reasoning sounds good, BUT are we not comparing apples to oranges in many ways with this argument? Wouldn't a competitor, in his sport of choice, adapt to the rules at hand and compete within them? Since the lines that I think you are addressing actually seemed to be drawn in several places I will try to address those. Am I wrong in thinking the arguments normally tend to revolve around costuming, speed vs accuracy and caliber vs power issues? The game is what it is at any given time (and club or group) with the current rules being what governs the parameters of our game at that time only. We all know that the game has changed a great deal since SASS began and the evolution will continue as long as our sport survives. Everyone brings their vision to the table and for those who do not share the vision, any continued attempts at change would be considered unwanted dissent. But remember, it took many years of dissent and change for us to arrive at the very different game we are at today. Whether we are doing this with big guns or small, funny clothes or mod, small/far targets or giant ones at brail distance, the competition is there as long as there are two shooters who care about a final score and yes, even those two will disagree on how the game should evolve! Right now I have an even more important issue, where the heck should one bust up a meandering paragraph such as this un?

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

I hate to be a descenting voice, and your reasoning sounds good, BUT are we not comparing apples to oranges in many ways with this argument? Wouldn't a competitor, in his sport of choice, adapt to the rules at hand and compete within them? Since the lines that I think you are addressing actually seemed to be drawn in several places I will try to address those. Am I wrong in thinking the arguments normally tend to revolve around costuming, speed vs accuracy and caliber vs power issues? The game is what it is at any given time (and club or group) with the current rules being what governs the parameters of our game at that time only. We all know that the game has changed a great deal since SASS began and the evolution will continue as long as our sport survives. Everyone brings their vision to the table and for those who do not share the vision, any continued attempts at change would be considered unwanted dissent. But remember, it took many years of dissent and change for us to arrive at the very different game we are at today. Whether we are doing this with big guns or small, funny clothes or mod, small/far targets or giant ones at brail distance, the competition is there as long as there are two shooters who care about a final score and yes, even those two will disagree on how the game should evolve! Right now I have an even more important issue, where the heck should one bust up a meandering paragraph such as this un?

 

Actually if you read my post I make no argument for any of those items you mentioned. Regardless of what your agenda is my message is still the same. If you don't like, change it. My personal feeling is that I will never validate anyones complaint if all they have ever done is nothing. Like it or don't. I will continue to hit this game 110% with all the resources I have.

[Madd Mike #8595]

I hate to be a descenting voice, and your reasoning sounds good, BUT are we not comparing apples to oranges in many ways with this argument? Wouldn't a competitor, in his sport of choice, adapt to the rules at hand and compete within them?

 

 

no

............values have changed a lot in CAS as well...........

 

I personally know shooters

................... that bragg about bully-ing their posse's

and getting their way, and they volenteer as posse leaders and club vps

and still brag about bullying ta git their way

 

yes

brag, at both their state championship shoot and nationials

I know good shooters, that let em git away with it as well

 

I like SASS / CAS

I dont mind getten wooooped in a competition

if I get woooped by all or at least both of us, playing by the rules, as you mentioned

 

sadd

sadd

did I mention

its to bad, the cowboy code of ethics is loosing traction too

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

...I personally know shooters ... that bragg about bully-ing their posse's

and getting their way, and they volenteer as posse leaders and club vps and still brag about bullying ta git their way...

its to bad, the cowboy code of ethics is loosing traction too

Take heart Mike,

 

Folks know about ... and refuse to shoot with ... and tell MDs they will not attend if you posse them with ...

 

even if we don't always agree on all things!

 

Allie Mo

[Griff]

Duece,

 

I tend to agree with you... but. while everyone seems to think the game has changed... exactly WHAT is that has? Ok, from the time I started... the .30-30 as a main match round has been disallowed. We now use two handguns instead of one. We still shoot steel. Target ranges are still between 10 to 25 yards... some greater, some shorter. Stages still run 5 per pistol, 8-10 rifle and 4-6 shotgun. Some folks start their stage with a line, some don't... Speeds have increased, to almost unbelieveable levels, but we're still firing cowboy guns at steel. Some folks like their '97s, 87s or doubles in a wide variety of makes and models... '73s have replaced Marlins for many of the fast folk. But you still see Winchesters or clones in '66, '73, '92 or 94 models, Marlins in 1894 configuration, with the occasional Spencer or some other rare model... more so with the increase of clones. Armi San Marco has been replaced with Armi Sport, Pietta seems to have exploded onto the scene.

 

I don't see many folks that want to silly stuff back... but some do miss having a stage where you're sitting or laying down... but most folks recognize that some of us older folks have problems making those maneuvers.

 

While I haven't seen a single change that affected the required "costuming". I have seen the increase and improvement in such tho'. More vendors, more selections... more folks willing to take the trouble and expense of "dressin' the part."

 

One could say that I'm seeing the glass ½ full... but, I see more folks coming in than going out (and I've seen my share of those), new folks volunteering to help, looking for ways to take some of the workload off others, suggesting stages, getting out to help set up, keep score, spot, pick brass and run the timer. Sure there are those that don't... but IMO, they're the minority, as are those that complain of this or that. But, even that has not changed. Vocal? Yes. Worthy of notice? Maybe, as you say,if they are from amongst those that work and volunteer... but, I say good ideas can come from any source. And should not be discouraged.

 

On balance, changes have been for the better.

 

The game can still be played to each individual's level and desire. Don't feel like dressin' up like a Classic Cowboy? Not a problem. Want to shoot a Ruger with adjustable sights? Still allowed, in fact in more classes than ever! Want to shoot light loads (relatively speaking) and go as fast as greased lightning? Ok, more power to ya! Wanna shoot whart-hog loads and go slower? Ok there also! Wanna shoot BP or smokeless, not problems... I still see folks having fun on each and every range I've visited. I see NONE of the complaining seen on the Wire. At every club I've visited I've had folks come up and ask me if there's something they could do to increase that fun factor... tho' I'm no sort of expert on such.

[Wes Durn, SASS#18998]

Yes the game has changed but so have I. I've never been as good a CAS shooter as I am now. I am looking to get better as the newer competitors around me are getting faster. I am still improving and one of these days I'm gonna get serious. I have never had as much fun or looked forward to a match like I do now.

 

I have to quote this!! The bolded passage, in particular, speaks to me! Cannot agree with Fillmore...er, more!!!

 

WD

[Rocky Meadows, SASS#18501]

Well said Deuce darlin, I couldn't agree with you more. I've always have said unless you have ran a match you have no right to complain....not to say suggestions aren't welcome but, spewing venom is not!! I remember Aimless asked me to speak at convention in her seminar, and as the other women talked girlie girl, I spoke on GET INVOLVED !!!

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Duece, if you are asking about my agenda, the really big one is to try and improve my health and start shooting more again. Went to a distant match yesterday and bedogged if it hadnt been cancelled BUT I did enjoy going to the towns local Tandy and picking up a couple of decent leather shoulders. Not a very good orator but was trying to say, do not take the agenda of others so personal, many before you did cause the game to travel in the current direction through persistent UHHH suggestions and complaints.

 

Griff, your last paragraph says it far better than I though we do have two different interpretations on the meaning. Within each desired approach you list there can be and usually is competition present. Those guys who are shooting in the many various classes based on shooting style or load requirements are all competing within their ow niche and most will have few complaints as long as another's perceived rights do no smack them in the nose. No I have not always agreed with the path that many competitors have wanted to travel on but if there has been one situation that they have birthed that I would call a really poor negative, it would be the practice that lead to the term "Choose your category wisely".

[Samuel "Doc" Eells]

Yep! I agree entirely Deuce. And Manatee, I know what and where and you are right on as well! Karl, you did not trade cheap whiskey for those shirts, you might have shared it, but you drank your fair share........cause nobody would ever get shirts like those sober!

[Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195]

Ditto to Deuce. I've been in SASS for just over 6 years and I got involved as much as I could because it was all part of the fun of shooting and friendship. I am still involved but not as much physically at the range for the last year as my wife fights the big C. Hopefully as she gets better I can help out more.