Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Since I'm already on a roll, why not create more trouble. One of my favorite clubs, Robbers Roost Vigilantes, is offering a class titled, Frontier Gunfighter. Cap and Ball gunfighter. Sounds like a lot of fun. Now the only C+B pistols I have anymore are Walkers, so that makes it even more interesting. I have shot GF before using Old Army Rugers and my Walkers (60 grns FFG), and it is a lot of work but it's also a lot of fun. So how many of you would like to do this? And how many of you would vote for this next time the TG's get together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I shoot Frontiersman a lot. To be candid it is already an underpopulated category. All your proposal would do is make an already small category smaller. My guess would be it would not even come close to passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Josey Wales could do it.. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Larsen, Live a little. Just imagine how much fun it would be. After all this is a "Fantasy Game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 GG, My Walker holsters are patterned from the ones in the movie, not exact but close. There's lots of Walker barrel hanging out the bottom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Your bada@@ pard... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I shoot Frontiersman a lot. To be candid it is already an underpopulated category. All your proposal would do is make an already small category smaller. My guess would be it would not even come close to passing. +1 Don't need another category. You can shoot that anytime you like in GFer. So have at it. No need to water down the categorys anymore than what they already are. I mean really. Just how watered down to you want them??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Larsen, Live a little. Just imagine how much fun it would be. After all this is a "Fantasy Game". Don't need a category to do that. At club matches I just get a few pards together that want to shoot something different, sign up for any category and shoot. We just compare times at the end even though we shot "out of category" and didn't qualify for any awards. Who cares. But, at big club annuals, State, Regional, WR and EOT the proliferation of categories can be a real challenge to the match organizers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Our Michigan state match director has no issues with categories...FCGF and Pale Rider Gunfighter is allowed...EVERYONE is accommodated and it runs smooth. Thank goodness for MDs who make it happen for it's participants... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 So how many of you would like to do this? And how many of you would vote for this next time the TG's get together? I have shot GF with the Navy .36's and it is a blast Marshal (I think they gave me a penalty for shooting out of class) :lol: . Too bad we can't shoot Frontiersman GF within the class to keep it populated. If BG gets fixed by the Robbers Roost deal, I'll try to do the FGF with you Marshal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Our Michigan state match director has no issues with categories...FCGF and Pale Rider Gunfighter is allowed...EVERYONE is accommodated and it runs smooth. Thank goodness for MDs who make it happen for it's participants... GG So he'd let me shoot SFBBBWG? Short Fat Bald Blind Bearded White Guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm going to propose another new category myself which I call the "Slinging Lead" category. In this the shooters will have to fire their handguns in the manner of the early TV and movies where they bring the gun over their head between shots and "sling" it forward as they fire. It's obviously a very accurate technique as they could shoot guns out of hand and hats off heads with every shot. As I recall Andy Devine was very proficient with this method. I assume the "slinging" action gives more velocity to the bullets if the technique is performed properly and the gun is fired as the downward motion is begun. It's like putting a marble in a piece of pipe and "slinging" it downrange. SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Too bad we can't shoot Frontiersman GF within the class to keep it populated. Now I would vote for that. No need to add a category for it. Just allow them to shoot GFer with in what is already there. Helps keep more people in Frontiersman that way also. Which most places has little or no entrys. Think that would really help Frontiersman out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So he'd let me shoot SFBBBWG? Short Fat Bald Blind Bearded White Guy? Make that LHSFBBBWG (left handed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So he'd let me shoot SFBBBWG? Short Fat Bald Blind Bearded White Guy? Good one,,,, Then can we subdivide that into a Knock-Knee, Buck-tooth, cross-eyed division? I mean,,,,, a division for each of what I listed,,,,, or any combo there of,,,,,LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Grizz..you will have to ask our match director yourself. . I aint gonna do the work for ya.. LOL GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have shot GF with the Navy .36's and it is a blast Marshal (I think they gave me a penalty for shooting out of class) :lol: . Too bad we can't shoot Frontiersman GF within the class to keep it populated. If BG gets fixed by the Robbers Roost deal, I'll try to do the FGF with you Marshal. Shouldn't have gotten an OOC penalty for shooting in the GF category with Navy .36s. Shooters Handbook specifies that Gunfighters can use any main matchg fixed sight revolvers. Any club that will not allow you to shoot GF with C&Bs is not following the handbook and is one to steer clear of IMNSHO. Now, if you were entered as a Frontiersman and shot GF, that's a horse of a different color. I agree with Larsen, Frontiersmen are close to being an endangered species as it is without diluting the pool any further. One of the things I look for in the Chronicle articles about regional and club annual matches is who won the Frontiersman category. There are way too many matches listed that don't have Frontiersman winners. I've passed on a few matches that didn't offer Frontiersman category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That one confused me when I read it as well. Both GF and FC allow the use of percussion revolvers with fixed sights. FCGF as proposed, specified the same firearm regs. FWIW - The penalty for "failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing" is the progressive P/SDQ/MDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The places where I've been shooting seem to have plenty of Frontiersman shooters. One recent annual event had nine cap'n'ballers in a match that had a total of around ninty shooters. It would have been eleven of 'em, but I had promised to shoot FCGF and one of the others went Josey Wales to fill out that category. Of the ones who shoot Frontiersman around here, about half would do it gunfighter if allowed. I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Why not allow the Gunfighter discipline in all gun and costume specific categories? You're allowed to shoot Gunfighter in B-western but not Classic Cowboy?? If you TGs can't bring yourselves to make FCGF a category, (which would probably have happened if the proposal had not been poisoned by somebody) then stop prohibiting us from doing it in the categories we are already supporting. No new categories and at least we don't get dinged for shooting out of category! Ain't quite win-win, but.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rodgers Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 My observation is that most people who would shoot this would not be at a competitive disadvantage if they shot with the rest of the regular gunfighters. No new class needed. I would also be for allowing frontiersmen to shoot gunfighter style in their regular category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Until you shoot Black Powder against those who aren't, in the same category, you'll never comprehend the disadvantage. Unless it is a really windy day and the wind is blowing the right way, you won't run with the top shooters in whatever category you're shooting, even if you are one of the top shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Until you shoot Black Powder against those who aren't, in the same category, you'll never comprehend the disadvantage. Unless it is a really windy day and the wind is blowing the right way, you won't run with the top shooters in whatever category you're shooting, even if you are one of the top shooters. Same song, same dance of what you are saying if you shoot left handed in a right handed world. I manage just fine. Just saying. Blastmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 My observation is that most people who would shoot this would not be at a competitive disadvantage if they shot with the rest of the regular gunfighters. No new class needed. I would also be for allowing frontiersmen to shoot gunfighter style in their regular category. Have you shot BP? We're not crying in our beer, we just want to compete against each other. A GF shooter can go to any match an know they' be able to sign up. Any one can decide that they'd like to shoot a legal SASS category and know it will be safe to set up and practice. It's not fair to the regular Gunfighters to make them compete against us, they don't stand a chance CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal barnes sass #5792 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Same song, same dance of what you are saying if you shoot left handed in a right handed world. I manage just fine. Just saying. Blastmaster What in the wide world of sports does shooting left handed in a right handed world have to do with BP shooters competing against smokeless ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Same song, same dance of what you are saying if you shoot left handed in a right handed world. I manage just fine. Just saying. Blastmaster If you've ever tried to shoot competitively in a major match where every stage is written with only the right handed shooter in mind or vise-versa, you'll quickly rethink that statement. Having to do everything backwards is not fun, especialy when everybody else is going forward. What in the wide world of sports does shooting left handed in a right handed world have to do with BP shooters competing against smokeless ones? You're right!! Smoke don't care what hand you shoot with! Only which way the wind blows!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Must be winter and no place to shoot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Loving Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Shooting Frontiersman is something you just have to have a love for due to the extra work involved, but every time both revolvers fires off all cyclinder chambers it put a smile on my face. As for FMGF I often shoot that style when practising. The ROA are the best to use. Both my Pietta and Uberti 58's jam more n that can be a problem on the fireing line if you don't have a place to stage a revolver while fixing the jam. Normally I finish out the un-jammed revolver and holster before working the jam out of the other. All in all I'm still carring around cap and balls so I must enjoy the fun of it all. Also everyone is correct C&B revolvers are main match weapons and can be uses in GF. Just my little 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 What in the wide world of sports does shooting left handed in a right handed world have to do with BP shooters competing against smokeless ones? Shooting left handed when the stages are written for a right hand shooter has its disadvantages,,,,, just like shooting BP (smoke) against a person shooting smokeless has its disadvantages.. Not that hard a concept to grasp. Just saying, there are other situations that some shooters have to deal with besides shooting through smoke. Since I shoot left handed, I have learned to deal with it and it only becomes slightly lopsided against me when shooting against a very good right hander on a right hand stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If you've ever tried to shoot competitively in a major match where every stage is written with only the right handed shooter in mind or vise-versa, you'll quickly rethink that statement. Having to do everything backwards is not fun, especialy when everybody else is going forward. Rethink? Your second sentence says it..... but I have fun,,,, lots of fun shooting left handed in a right handed world. Ya just gotta get better at running backwards... but you will never get as good running backwards as running forwards. Besides, there are a gazillion other things during the process of shooting a stage that affects your time besides the running right/left component... perfect those skills. You're right!! Smoke don't care what hand you shoot with! Only which way the wind blows!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal barnes sass #5792 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Shooting left handed when the stages are written for a right hand shooter has its disadvantages,,,,, just like shooting BP (smoke) against a person shooting smokeless has its disadvantages.. Not that hard a concept to grasp. Just saying, there are other situations that some shooters have to deal with besides shooting through smoke. Since I shoot left handed, I have learned to deal with it and it only becomes slightly lopsided against me when shooting against a very good right hander on a right hand stage. I'm also left handed. You just learn to deal with it or you encourage stage writers to allow starting on either end. Many large matches have learned to accommodate lefties. It still has nothing to do with the difference between BP and smokeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 FWIW - The penalty for "failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing" is the progressive P/SDQ/MDQ.[/b] I was signed up for Frontiersman but the urge to shoot one particular stage GF took control of my brain. I happily took the penalty as a trade off for a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly SASS #45219 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Having shot, and enjoyed shooting, Frontiersman Gunfighter I'm thinking that there wouldn't be enough of us to populate a separate category for it. So, since it's so similar to FCGF, I'd say to shoot with them. No, it's not exactly the same, but cartridge and C&B guns served in the same time frame and may have even filled the holsters opposite each other. I carry a cartridge gun as a spare/backup when I shoot Frontiersman. I don't have three cap guns. I may also pack a C&B gun as a spare/backup when I'm shooting FCGF. They mix quite agreeably. DD-MDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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