Merwin, Hulbert & Co. Order

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Frankly, I think that most of us who have been cautious about this and adopted a "wait and see" attitude are really pulling for these guys and will be buying guns if they actually are produced. Having said that, since you are "close" to these guys perhaps you can explain why every time one of the people associated with this project posts on a thread such as this oneand the subject of photos (versus computer generated images) comes up, they suddenly go silent. I have seen that process repeated here, on the Colt Forum, on the Smith and Wesson Forum and numerous others. If the guns are in production, as has been claimed here, why no photos? The only reasonable inference I can draw is that they aren't as far along as they claim. That (a production delay), in and of itself would not be a problem, I can't remember when a new gun such as this one ever came through on time, but if that is the case why not just say so? Unless, of course, they are strapped for cash and need those deposits. These are not unreasonable questions.

 

BTW, I'll be wanting a single action opentop with scooped cylinder flutes, the "skull-crusher" grip frame and a 3 1/2" barrel if they actually come through.

 

 

All I can say is that you are wrong.They don't regularly monitor the SASS Wire...Mostly when i alert AL at MH that the Wire is misrepresenting the facts, then he jumps in and tries to straighten out the matter.They are busy enough getting ready to introduce the guns.John Taffin is writing the first review, and David Chicoine is interested as well with tech help and as a dealer.MH is doing it the right way as far as i am concerned..without too much hoopla, preferring to wait until the guns are being shipped and let the guns speak for themselves.In case you don't know, the new MH company is part of a larger existing firearms company specializing in big game hunting,ammunition manufacturing, and Shaprs rifles even.Nuff said.Believe what you want, and meanwhile , keep getting the facts wrong....Like i said, the guns are close to being shipped and then the hoopla can begin.And all you naysayers can realize your error.You are just speculating on paranoia from other promised guns that never happened..well, thats business folks..get over it, some succeed, some don't....MH is for real.

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

All I can say is that you are wrong.They don't regularly monitor the SASS Wire...Mostly when i alert AL at MH that the Wire is misrepresenting the facts, then he jumps in and tries to straighten out the matter.They are busy enough getting ready to introduce the guns.John Taffin is writing the first review, and David Chicoine has joined on as well with tech help and as a dealer.MH is doing it the right way as far as i am concerned..without too much hoopla, preferring to wait until the guns are being shipped and let the guns speak for themselves.In case you don't know, the new MH company is part of a larger existing firearms company specializing in big game hunting,ammunition manufacturing, and Shaprs rifles even.Nuff said.Believe what you want, and meanwhile , keep getting the facts wrong....Like i said, the guns are close to being shipped and then the hoopla can begin.And all you naysayers can realize your error.You are just speculating on paranoia from other promised guns that never happened..well, thats business folks..get over it, some succeed, some don't....MH is for real.

 

So, you have no answer to the photo question either. And since you chose instead to go on a rant calling people "...naysayers....speculating on paranoia..." I guess it is fair to point out that you were on here singing the praises of the Chaparral '66 and '73 replicas when they first came out as well.

 

Peace, Bro'

[Marshal Harry O'Callahan]

Just got an e-mail from them as they are accepting orders. Of the models offered what would you advise..... Single or DA, barrel length, caliber, blued or nickel (satin or bright)? Website is http://merwinhulbertco.com Thank you for the time.

 

The catalog is the best guide and has a great deal of information on construction, operation, testing, options, etc.. sales@merwinhulbertco.com is the easiest way to request it, it's free and an Adobe PDF file (fat one though, if you don't have a broadband internet connection, ask for a paper catalog.)

 

The Pocket Army is the most unique combination and while many companies made short-barreled, large caliber revolvers then (Webley, Forehand & Wadsworth, Hopkins & Allen XL's, the many "British Bulldogs" from England, the U.S., and Belgium, etc.) the Merwin Pocket Army and Webleys appear the most respected by the users of the thousands or tens of thousands across the U.S.. They could be had for half the price of a premium revolver like Colt, S&W, Remington, Merwin Hulbert, Webley and were designed for the actual gunfights/brandishing that happen in less than 10 feet of distance and inside, a dark bar/saloon usually.

 

It all depends on what you want to use it for, where, how often, hand-size, etc. like any gun. Figure out your planned use and the choices will get a lot clearer.

 

Originals were generally bright nickel-plated since that was the best protection from moisture and wear at the time while the charcoal blueing of the day abrades off very quickly with holster wear.

 

Single actions dominated then and now for aimed shots over some distance, double-action is preferred for when the shooter is getting rushed as British officers in the Crimean War found comparing the SA Colt 1851's against the Beaumont Adams DA's. The Merwin double action was introduced 1882-1883 and among the first to use coil springs instead of flat springs, gunsmiths think a lot of it.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

So, you have no answer to the photo question either. And since you chose instead to go on a rant calling people "...naysayers....speculating on paranoia..." I guess it is fair to point out that you were on here singing the praises of the Chaparral '66 and '73 replicas when they first came out as well.

 

Peace, Bro'

 

 

You really know very little about Me or anything concerning new guns it seems,'Bro'....I never 'sang the praises' of the Chaparral 73 and 66....Never...the 76, Yes,Most definitely, cause initially they were very well made and good guns..i never sold any 66 Chaparrals, and only one 73, which was a 38-40 and a gift to me from Chaparral...I dropped Chaparral when the 73 AND 66 were introduced, and so did my Importer.

So if you want to get some kick out of trying to insult me, 'Bro', try again and get your facts straight.

You want to continue this vitriol, please contact me offline and keep it between us, since you are desperately lacking in information.

I could care less what you buy or for what reasons.

Peace, Hell......

[Marshal Harry O'Callahan]

Well, I've looked at the site and fantasized about what I'd order, so here it is:

 

4th generation (top strap)

Crested bird's head (aka skull crusher) grip

Single action (so's I could use it in SASS)

Nickel

.357

5 1/2 in. barrel

Scalloped cylinder

 

It'd look something like the gun at the bottom of this page:

http://www.ocyoung.com/Merwin2.htm

 

I can always dream.

 

You'll want to look at the catalog as the 4th model top strap isn't being made (that's the one that's clearly copied from the Smith & Wesson's #1-3 with a barrel rib that flows into a heavy topstrap. The "3rd Model" top strap of the 1882-1887 models which is like a Colt or later S&W K-frame is what's being made and was the choice of far more historically interesting shooters than the later model made between 1889-1891 (which makes the 4th model more collectible though thanks to rarity.)

 

You're describing the grip of a Pocket Army model. The grip on these is part of the entire frame so it's actually a frame style. The skullcracker/birdshead (when introduced the company called it a "crescent" grip) is structurally a neat feature and all of the gun's been adapted in subtle ways to make that an effective feature rather than cosmetic when you pick up the gun like a club, it's noticeable. Shame the western sixgun makers of the time didn't realize their guns were often going to be used for hammering in fence nails and beefed them up considerably for that (a claw feature for nail extraction would have been nice too.) Haven't tried the skullcracker knuckle on a nail head but it should work better than most, unloaded of course.

 

.357 Magnum isn't offered, .38 Special is.

 

Scalloped cylinders are found on a few transition revolvers from open-frame to solid-frame, to use up remaining parts in 1882, but a solid frame Merwin then and now has modern-style fluted cylinders. The scalloped/scoop depressions that are unique to Merwin cylinders only appear on the open-frame models 1876-1882, then and now.

[Marshal Harry O'Callahan]

Marshall Harry O,

 

Are you employed by or a spokesman for the company?

 

Why is the company taking deposits on guns that have not been produced yet? In my book that is a sure sign the project is underfunded and likely to fail. THe start-up costs of a new manufacturing plant, tooling, design, R&D, etc. must be hugh especially on a design as complicated as the M&H!

 

I think I will get in line behind Utah Bob. I think he has the best plan.

 

I'm a partner in the company, which makes me less knowledgable about our finances, production, marketing, etc. than many posters on many forums. I've got six figures into this as have others so hearing it's being funded on $200 deposits is pretty entertaining nor do the prepaid orders cover it. The fact we have other guns and ammuntion we're making, existing buildings and crews, and are using long-established suppliers with their own paid-for equipment, crews, buildings, etc. is what makes this viable as a small division. Otherwise, yes setting all of this up just to make Merwins would be prohibitive although I've seen great guns produced in basement shops with a few thousand dollars of old tools and I've seen lousy guns produced from big new factories.

 

We figure, as always, most folks will wait until someone they know has a new Merwin out on the range and lets them try it. Others will wait to read some of the reviews in their favorite magazines by authors they trust. David Chicoine, John Taffin, Mike Beliveau, Rick Hacker, Todd Lofgren, and others have already stepped up and will point out the faults and fun of the new ones. The folks stepping up now are typically folks who've already owned original Merwins and shot them so they know what they like and just want a good one for smokeless powder with new parts.

 

My own marketing experience and training screams don't show incomplete or early stage parts and pieces as it sets expectations, show and test production products made a ways into it that represent fully and accurately what customers will actually receive. Prototypes by their nature are unreliable indicators as they get so much special attention in their making as well as aren't a tested design yet or they wouldn't be a prototype. Builders don't show piles of lumber, trusses, and millwork to new homebuyers nor is the model home that reliable of an indicator.

 

The proof is in the gun in hand and everyone's production quality varies over time, management, and crew as you can see with every brand of gun and ammuntion out there over their years. We're way more skeptical about the quality and manufacturing processes of guns new and old than most folks rather than dewy-eyed enthusiasts. Merwin Hulberts were made right, unusually well for the era and technology, and respecting that has been very challeging. Sharing what we've learned along the way to make it much easier for Uberti would be self-defeating, as well as deeply boring for most customers. Smith & Wesson had great videos at SHOT showing their gunmaking process and I was watching the crowd, almost no one watched it at all, and I only was for Merwin production insights even though an original Smith & Wesson 1917's the first revolver I bought.

 

We're focusing on gunsmiths as dealers as they can appreciate how these are made and explain it better, and old gunsmiths are pretty hard to fool with advertising. David Chicoine isn't a dealer, not yet at least. Bill English/Happy Trails is. Every gunsmith's experience and considerations differ, we ask a lot of them and the two in ownership here have 20 and 30 years experience respectively. We're building them to impress gunsmiths and guys who've owned and gone through a lot of revolvers in their lifetimes.

[Innocent Bystander SASS #24171]

Marshall Harry O,

 

I don't know if you've been associated with SASS for a while. Your SASS number is fairly recent. A little background on why some of us are more than reticent to plunk down serious money on guns that we can't see or handle.

 

Years ago, my wife and I were interested in the Tristar 87 shotgun out of Australia. The company was asking for $350 up front to get in the line for one. A few were produced, most people who put down the money never received their weapon. In this case, we didn't bite so we weren't out anything other than some healthy anticipation for a product that never appeared.

 

I almost bought an AWA lightning. Again, money was asked up front. Since I was appreciably poorer back then, I declined to put money down on one. Years of delays and manufacturing defects later, most everyone got their rifles, but many of the people had, by that time, moved on. Again, no pay so no foul.

 

Then more recently, my wife decided to get some Remington 75 replicas from Hartford Armory. They had prototypes out and we put down $1800 on two stainless pistols. A number of these very well made guns made it into the hands of shooters. All said the pistols were great. However, the stainless models were to be produced later than the blued models and when the time came to produce them, the company hemmed and hawed and never produced the guns. When we asked for our money back, more than once we were assured that "the check's in the mail". Nope never received a dime back.

 

We all remember San Pedro Saddlery. Many, many SASS members were left holding the bag on that one.

 

So, given this track record, many of us are understandably skeptical when someone comes on the SASS wire and says, basically, "We're makin' new guns, Give us your money and be the first on your block to receive this whizbang, newfangled invention."

 

Good luck in your endevours. I sincerely hope you make your MHs. My wife and I will probably buy 4 of them and with additional barrels to boot. BUT we will wait till they are on dealers shelves before we put any money down.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

I'm a partner in the company, which makes me less knowledgable about our finances, production, marketing, etc. than many posters on many forums. I've got six figures into this as have others so hearing it's being funded on $200 deposits is pretty entertaining nor do the prepaid orders cover it. The fact we have other guns and ammuntion we're making, existing buildings and crews, and are using long-established suppliers with their own paid-for equipment, crews, buildings, etc. is what makes this viable as a small division. Otherwise, yes setting all of this up just to make Merwins would be prohibitive although I've seen great guns produced in basement shops with a few thousand dollars of old tools and I've seen lousy guns produced from big new factories.

 

We figure, as always, most folks will wait until someone they know has a new Merwin out on the range and lets them try it. Others will wait to read some of the reviews in their favorite magazines by authors they trust. David Chicoine, John Taffin, Mike Beliveau, Rick Hacker, Todd Lofgren, and others have already stepped up and will point out the faults and fun of the new ones. The folks stepping up now are typically folks who've already owned original Merwins and shot them so they know what they like and just want a good one for smokeless powder with new parts.

 

My own marketing experience and training screams don't show incomplete or early stage parts and pieces as it sets expectations, show and test production products made a ways into it that represent fully and accurately what customers will actually receive. Prototypes by their nature are unreliable indicators as they get so much special attention in their making as well as aren't a tested design yet or they wouldn't be a prototype. Builders don't show piles of lumber, trusses, and millwork to new homebuyers nor is the model home that reliable of an indicator.

 

The proof is in the gun in hand and everyone's production quality varies over time, management, and crew as you can see with every brand of gun and ammuntion out there over their years. We're way more skeptical about the quality and manufacturing processes of guns new and old than most folks rather than dewy-eyed enthusiasts. Merwin Hulberts were made right, unusually well for the era and technology, and respecting that has been very challeging. Sharing what we've learned along the way to make it much easier for Uberti would be self-defeating, as well as deeply boring for most customers. Smith & Wesson had great videos at SHOT showing their gunmaking process and I was watching the crowd, almost no one watched it at all, and I only was for Merwin production insights even though an original Smith & Wesson 1917's the first revolver I bought.

 

We're focusing on gunsmiths as dealers as they can appreciate how these are made and explain it better, and old gunsmiths are pretty hard to fool with advertising. David Chicoine isn't a dealer, not yet at least. Bill English/Happy Trails is. Every gunsmith's experience and considerations differ, we ask a lot of them and the two in ownership here have 20 and 30 years experience respectively. We're building them to impress gunsmiths and guys who've owned and gone through a lot of revolvers in their lifetimes.

 

Thank you for Posting this information

I know that I personally appreciate it and I am one of your Dealers.

Looking forward to receiving my first order.

I wish you nothing but success and I will do my part to help ensure it.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Marshall Harry O,

 

Many of us have seen and heard empty pie in the sky promises before. Please explain why prepaid deposits are required for a gun that isn't even in production yet? This policy is not required by Smith & Wesson or Ruger when they introduced now models.

 

Remember the best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put in back in your pocket.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

For Custom Orders like the MH models a deposit is often required. This is not unusual in any Business that has a specialty.

 

The production of the MH is a personal featured product. In the catalog you order the piece very much like a Custom Colt from Colt's Shop. I paid my deposit when I ordered my Custom Colts. I waited nine Months for my Colts.

 

I doubt that Uberti will ever make the MH, they are not in the Custom business. The MH is a complicated design. There has been talk for Years about a retro of this great handgun. No doubt in my mind this will happen, and very soon.

 

I suppose some of you would prefer this be made in China.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Marshall Harry O,

 

Many of us have seen and heard empty pie in the sky promises before. Please explain why prepaid deposits are required for a gun that isn't even in production yet? This policy is not required by Smith & Wesson or Ruger when they introduced now models.

 

Remember the best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put in back in your pocket.

 

 

MH is doing nothing different by taking deposits than most if not all do.Actually, a $200 deposit is way low..most that require deposits of at least 50% if not the entire price.

That Makes ordering an MH a bargain!

[Iditarod Kid]

Folks: Thanks to Sixgun Shorty and Marshal Harry. Last year, when the MH Co. announced the intent to produce a "replica" , I thought long and hard about whether to plunk down my hard earned money. I am not rich, and the dollars come in and leave my account with rapid pace. I placed a deposit on a pair of revolvers. People are on the Wire all the time saying "Boy some one should make ......". When a group steps up to the plate and makes a BIG investment to produce a very intricate firearm; there is nothing but a line of bellyachers, naysayers, and whiners ready to run them down. (Sorry if that stepped on toes, but that is my opinion). If you do not wish to purchase a Merwin, fine. I look forward to sending lead downrange from my pair of 44-40s in the near future.

See you down the trail.....

Iditarod

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Fool me once ,,,,,, Shame on you ,,,,,, Fool me Twice Shame on ME !!!

 

Once Bit Twice shy ,,,,,,, seems to be the Take ,,,,,,, not wishing any harm !!!

 

Many of the skeptics ,,,,,,,,,,, Sure seem to wish this ventures succes .......

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Innocent Bystander SASS #24171]

For Custom Orders like the MH models a deposit is often required. This is not unusual in any Business that has a specialty.

 

The production of the MH is a personal featured product. In the catalog you order the piece very much like a Custom Colt from Colt's Shop. I paid my deposit when I ordered my Custom Colts. I waited nine Months for my Colts.

 

I doubt that Uberti will ever make the MH, they are not in the Custom business. The MH is a complicated design. There has been talk for Years about a retro of this great handgun. No doubt in my mind this will happen, and very soon.

 

I suppose some of you would prefer this be made in China.

 

You know, just because some of us don't want to put deposits down on a firearm that has not been made doesn't mean that we wish ill to the company involved.

 

As I said in my previous post, to paraphrase, "If they build it, I will come." And absolutely, being built in America is a double plus.

 

Your argument that this is like buying a Colt from the custom shop is not relevant however. Colt has been producing the SSA since 1873. Order one and you have an excellent chance of seeing it, even if it takes nine months. Harry's company has yet to produce even a prototype. Not saying they won't, not saying their MH won't be a great pistol, just saying that it will take someone else other than me to pony up money on a firearm from a company that has yet to produce one. I appreciate that they are part of a big firearms making company. Perhaps if Harry would tell us the name of that company and what exactly they produce, it would help us better in our decision making process.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

You know, just because some of us don't want to put deposits down on a firearm that has not been made doesn't mean that we wish ill to the company involved.

 

As I said in my previous post, to paraphrase, "If they build it, I will come." And absolutely, being built in America is a double plus.

 

Your argument that this is like buying a Colt from the custom shop is not relevant however. Colt has been producing the SSA since 1873. Order one and you have an excellent chance of seeing it, even if it takes nine months. Harry's company has yet to produce even a prototype. Not saying they won't, not saying their MH won't be a great pistol, just saying that it will take someone else other than me to pony up money on a firearm from a company that has yet to produce one. I appreciate that they are part of a big firearms making company. Perhaps if Harry would tell us the name of that company and what exactly they produce, it would help us better in our decision making process.

 

 

The name of the Company is listed in the catalog. They have great success with other fine Firearms Custom products. Many know of the Parent Company. They are in Montana for a starting clue. This is not a start-up Mfg. firm.

 

Some of you are Clue-Less.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

Sharps Rifle Company

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

This is what comes up for Sharps Rifle Company http://sharpsriflecompany.com/ Edit So I navigate around the web site and a couple of names of company's are in the four corners of the page, A old respected leather manufacture H.H. Heiser and in the lower right hand corner A Square,so now we know. I know A Square makes product. Adios Sgt. Jake

[Innocent Bystander SASS #24171]

No need to get pithy, Lefty.

 

So Sharps is the company. Good, a going concern that make really, really expensive rifles, I'll still wait until an MH is produced before putting down money on one. Uberti has one in the works and you are saying you doubt they will make it. They're a big company too. Guess it goes both ways. Perhaps Sharps will make it, perhaps they too will find that it's too hard, too expensive and not enough demand to build it. However, in their behalf, I suspect that they will at least give the money back if they don't do it.

 

Since we are down to name calling, I'll exit this thread. And, I suspect, Lefty Dude will go on my ignore list.

 

Bystander

[Remo, SASS #17644]

I never 'sang the praises' of the Chaparral 73 and 66....Never...the 76,

I started this topic for some input on a possible MH order but I think I will hold off. But this quote from the above irked me. I bought 2 '76's from the above and this was due to his lavish e-mail praise and Wire posts re: this item. Frankly they were not as advertised but through a lot of work they both function flawlessly and shoot dead-on. I replaced the wood with a much higher grade walnut. Will I buy another piece without certifiable input...NO. But really, all I wanted was some advise on MH.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

I started this topic for some input on a possible MH order but I think I will hold off. But this quote from the above irked me. I bought 2 '76's from the above and this was due to his lavish e-mail praise and Wire posts re: this item. Frankly they were not as advertised but through a lot of work they both function flawlessly and shoot dead-on. I replaced the wood with a much higher grade walnut. Will I buy another piece without certifiable input...NO. But really, all I wanted was some advise on MH.

 

 

I won't bother to answer such BS.

Be as irked as you like

[Curley Cole, SASS #56849]

Yes, folks have been burned in the past, and guess what folks are gonna get burned in the future. Sometimes it is because some shady dealers are trying to get as much money as they can before the run. AND, SOMETIMES, things (read that doo-doo ) happens and folks with the best of intentions have things go haywire and things go belly up. (and most of the time when those times occur the ones running the business probably go belly up or at least have lost a lot more than some deposits.

 

That said, all I can say about this situation, is that if Sixgun Shorty it telling you that he is standing up for it. Well, then that is good enough for me. The man is honest as the day is long, and will do anything he can to make a transaction a happy and successful one. I am proud to say over the years that I can call Shorty, my friend and that is due to his dealings with others on the wire, his dealings with me in my "Big Retirement Colt Purchase" and his attitude in pm's and emails. His word is good as gold........

 

So, I think folks ought to wait to slam MH at least until they show signs that they are not going to honor their promises.

 

and that is all I have to say on the subject...

curley

 

I also wonder how many folks that are bad talking the MH here on this thread, are actually interested in buying one in the first place. (I do know my pard Old Top would happly sell his first born kid to get one......) Anyways lets see how things go...

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

"Established firearms companies", do not require down payments before they BUILD a production item.

 

They build runs of firearms and then accept orders for those existing items - if you WANT something that does not run in normal production, you might have to wait.

But I have yet to see ANY products from this company.

This firearm, while a fine item in it's day, is not the space shuttle.

Nor is it a one off item.

If the engineering is done, the parts exist and the the firearms are in "Production"

Surely there is ONE complete, assembled and ready to go.

Show it to us.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

I really hope they make it. I have been lusting after the originals for years. Make mine a 4" nickled .38spec with skull crusher grip. very cool.

[Bad Hand]

I've been "burned" before (by Bill Grover), but not by this company so I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt. I have an original, bought it from an older gentleman who told me his father had bought it in Mexico when he was a boy. The barrel has been shortened, there's a repair to the topstrap, and it's been renickled. When I got it , only the double action worked, a trip to "The Smith Shop" fixed that. Has great "suction" and is just fun to shoot. After looking at the way the locking/extraction systyem works, I can see where it might be a little difficult to replicate it. Course I'm not a gunsmith, nor did I stay in a hotel last night. I think I'll look at their catalog again.

[Dog Ears Wilson, SASS #77948]

You'll want to look at the catalog as the 4th model top strap isn't being made (that's the one that's clearly copied from the Smith & Wesson's #1-3 with a barrel rib that flows into a heavy topstrap. The "3rd Model" top strap of the 1882-1887 models which is like a Colt or later S&W K-frame is what's being made and was the choice of far more historically interesting shooters than the later model made between 1889-1891 (which makes the 4th model more collectible though thanks to rarity.)

 

You're describing the grip of a Pocket Army model. The grip on these is part of the entire frame so it's actually a frame style. The skullcracker/birdshead (when introduced the company called it a "crescent" grip) is structurally a neat feature and all of the gun's been adapted in subtle ways to make that an effective feature rather than cosmetic when you pick up the gun like a club, it's noticeable. Shame the western sixgun makers of the time didn't realize their guns were often going to be used for hammering in fence nails and beefed them up considerably for that (a claw feature for nail extraction would have been nice too.) Haven't tried the skullcracker knuckle on a nail head but it should work better than most, unloaded of course.

 

.357 Magnum isn't offered, .38 Special is.

 

Scalloped cylinders are found on a few transition revolvers from open-frame to solid-frame, to use up remaining parts in 1882, but a solid frame Merwin then and now has modern-style fluted cylinders. The scalloped/scoop depressions that are unique to Merwin cylinders only appear on the open-frame models 1876-1882, then and now.

 

Um... OK The catalog (which is really only a list of options and choices) clearly states "4th Generation", not "3rd Generation". And .357 is one of calibers listed.

 

I was answering the original poster's question and I used the company's website to answer.

[Greeenriver SASS #38681]

I really hope they make it. I have been lusting after the originals for years. Make mine a 4" nickled .38spec with skull crusher grip. very cool.

 

 

I'm holding out for a square grip 4" in .44 Special, nickled. Will probibly get Ivory grips on it someday, and become my daily cary piece. Or at least, one of my SASS match guns, Or get sold if I don't like it after buying it. Be a "Once in a lifetime" purchase, as my income don't allow many pure extravengrant purchases. First, I want to hold one in my hands and see how it feels to me.

 

Greeenriver

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Sharps Rifle Company

 

 

You REALLY need to research this company. They have nothing to do with Shiloh or C. Sharps and don't make a Sharps pattern rifle. They recently (this month) announced their first fiream, an AR pattern rifle, and it seems that they are simply trading on the Sharps name in a way that would make the Henry people blush. There is info on line relating to their history, business volume and staff size-I'll leave it at that.

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

Boy looking through the "Sharps Rifle Company" website raises a few questions. From what I can see their AR style rifle is also in the "production" stage (deliveries to be made to existing orders as the guns are produced) which sounds a lot like the M&H. From what I can see from their own site, they don't appear to be an established company at all (at least not in the actual production of firearms).

 

I am also puzzled by the statement that the folks behind the manufacture of the M&H don't read the posts on their products. The have certainly had little qualm about using the wire to promote the coming of their product and the SASS membership would seem to be their target (almost sole) demographic. As such, it would be incredibly foolhardy not to keep up with what people are saying about their proposed product on the wire and other CAS forms.

 

Further more, the whole cloak and dagger routine about who they are and what they actually do dose not inspire confidence. It gave (gives?) prospective buyers a number of qualms (as evidenced by the reticence expressed in the previous responses). To put it mildly, who ever was in charge of the product roll-out for the M&H flubbed it badly; they created a high level of suspicion and product resistance even before anyone has even seen one of their guns. This was not helped by some of the product's supporters (dealers) who were happy to assert its quality and assure delivery but were strangely reticent about who these people actually were and somewhat vague (and even misleading) about what they have actually produced. For example Shorty's post stating that "the new MH company is part of a larger existing firearms company specializing in big game hunting,ammunition manufacturing, and Shaprs rifles even" combined with Lefty's Statement that "They have great success with other fine Firearms Custom products. Many know of the Parent Company. They are in Montana for a starting clue" gave me the mistaken impression that M&H production was associated with either Shiloh or C. Sharps. In addition, according to their own web site, the "Sharps Rifle Company" dose not actually produce a Sharps style falling block rifle. Why be so cryptic? Why not just say who they are and give straight forward information on what they produce?

 

As I have said before, I hope the M&H does actually go into production, lord knows its great to have old guns come back. However, in light of all that I have pointed out above, I think its quite unfair to criticize people for not wanting to put down money on these guns. People's skepticism is the direct result of the poor job the company (and others) has (have) done in bringing their product to market. Rather than lashing out to attack potential customers [a marketing strategy of dubious value at best] the company and their dealers should seriously think about establishing a more transparent and most of all accurate marketing message. Show actual images of the product, or at least the prototype, keep people informed on the march towards production, set a date for the product roll out and keep it. This would go along way to silencing the doubters. Anything else will just fuel the suspicion that the M&H is just another flash in the pan.

 

Just the view from my saddle.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Boy looking through the "Sharps Rifle Company" website raises a few questions. From what I can see their AR style rifle is also in the "production" stage (deliveries to be made to existing orders as the guns are produced) which sounds a lot like the M&H. From what I can see from their own site, they don't appear to be an established company at all (at least not in the actual production of firearms).

 

I am also puzzled by the statement that the folks behind the manufacture of the M&H don't read the posts on their products. The have certainly had little qualm about using the wire to promote the coming of their product and the SASS membership would seem to be their target (almost sole) demographic. As such, it would be incredibly foolhardy not to keep up with what people are saying about their proposed product on the wire and other CAS forms.

 

Further more, the whole cloak and dagger routine about who they are and what they actually do dose not inspire confidence. It gave (gives?) prospective buyers a number of qualms (as evidenced by the reticence expressed in the previous responses). To put it mildly, who ever was in charge of the product roll-out for the M&H flubbed it badly; they created a high level of suspicion and product resistance even before anyone has even seen one of their guns. This was not helped by some of the product's supporters (dealers) who were happy to assert its quality and assure delivery but were strangely reticent about who these people actually were and somewhat vague (and even misleading) about what they have actually produced. For example Shorty's post stating that "the new MH company is part of a larger existing firearms company specializing in big game hunting,ammunition manufacturing, and Shaprs rifles even" combined with Lefty's Statement that "They have great success with other fine Firearms Custom products. Many know of the Parent Company. They are in Montana for a starting clue" gave me the mistaken impression that M&H production was associated with either Shiloh or C. Sharps. In addition, according to their own web site, the "Sharps Rifle Company" dose not actually produce a Sharps style falling block rifle. Why be so cryptic? Why not just say who they are and give straight forward information on what they produce?

 

As I have said before, I hope the M&H does actually go into production, lord knows its great to have old guns come back. However, in light of all that I have pointed out above, I think its quite unfair to criticize people for not wanting to put down money on these guns. People's skepticism is the direct result of the poor job the company (and others) has (have) done in bringing their product to market. Rather than lashing out to attack potential customers [a marketing strategy of dubious value at best] the company and their dealers should seriously think about establishing a more transparent and most of all accurate marketing message. Show actual images of the product, or at least the prototype, keep people informed on the march towards production, set a date for the product roll out and keep it. This would go along way to silencing the doubters. Anything else will just fuel the suspicion that the M&H is just another flash in the pan.

 

Just the view from my saddle.

 

I said "Sharps Rifles", NEVER Shiloh

Frankly, whether you buy one or not is your business..I just don't care...I know what I am doing re MH, and that's all that really matters, isn't it? My decisions are mine alone

I'm through with this Post.It's gotten ridiculous,off topic and nasty which is typical of the misinterpretation that this Wire is famous for.

Do what's right for YOU..I'll do what's right for Me

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

On November 18, Mashall Harry O'Callahan indicated that the guns were "in production." Here's the latest from the company website.

 

http://www.forum.merwinhulbertco.com/showf...page=0#Post1396

 

I think I'm a resonably bright guy, but every time I read one of the Montanian's posts I find myself going "Huh?"

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

nevermind

[Trooper John Smith SASS 5561]

Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what develops, rather than bad-mouthing each other and maybe later having to eat one of them black-feathered birds?

 

Trooper

[Mordis]

I understand why sixgun shorty is upset with people here, he probably has alot of money wrapped up in the vapor ware gun from this "company". I have been watching them for some time and there have gotten no where at all. Why the hell wont they just release a picture of a finished gun. They claim there in produciton but dont have any samples to take pictures of?? If the guns are actually made, ill put a order down untill then i will waste my money on a vapor ware product that will most likely never see the light of day.

 

For those not into computer games, a sequal to the very popular computer game series duke nukem, Duke nukem forever has been in a state of "its right around the corner" for about the last 10 years. It even spawned the term vapor ware which is now common vernacular for a developer or company/companies promising a product(game or gun or anything else) and saying its almost here, just right around the corner and years and years go by with no new developments and the gun/game brand/license keeps getting pushed off for a later date. In the case of Duke nukem forever it keeps getting passed from one development crew to the next with out anyone actually doing any work on it. Which is sad becuase duke nukem was hugely popular back in the day and alot of people would love to see his continuing adventures. Sadly duke nukem could have been a movie franchise as well, but the vapor ware shenanigans he has been subject to have seen his memory ebb from the minds of many in the gaming public.

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

I understand why sixgun shorty is upset with people here, he probably has alot of money wrapped up in the vapor ware gun from this "company".

 

That is no business of yours...Whether you choose to buy one or not, I could care less.Speculate all you want, but that's all it is : Speculation without any knowledge based facts, much like your above comments

[Mordis]

Shorty that dosent change the fact that the MH is following a similar development pattern as the aforementioned Duke nukem forever. I just dont understand why a company would go out of its way to piss off its biggest potential customer base? All this secrecy and criptic posts are not helping their standing among the shooting community especial the one that should matter the most to them, the cowboy action shooters who will be there predominant customer base. Jesus christ all it would take is a few pictures of a real gun and this whole discussion would end. People want proof that there $300 deposit will net them a gun and not just dissapear into the mists.

 

The MH designe is a very good design and i would love to own one, but this company has given no indication they are legit and at least making something.

 

Man i didnt want to get involved in a internet argument about a gun that may or may not make it to production. Im done arguing for today, just gonna watch this thread and check there website perodicly to see if anything changes. Im hoping it does, I would love a modern day replica.

 

Shorty, if this company is ligit, and apparantly has your stamp of approval, what will happen if this company fails at this product. Will all the people who made deposits get there refunds or are they going to be hung out to dry?