9mm inquiry: questions, dilemma, etc......

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy PR.

How do I ask them to 'fix' something that is within their normal, approved manufacturing standards?

I read a lot of the information on those links provided by Stump Water, and although SAMMI standards are used

by ALL gun manufacturers for 'chamber dimensions',  the 'throat' length (or free bore area) beyond the chamber

is left up to the manufacturer because SAMMI does not have specific specifications for the 'throat'. (free bore).

 

..........Widder

 

[Pat Riot]

18 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy PR.

How do I ask them to 'fix' something that is within their normal, approved manufacturing standards?

I read a lot of the information on those links provided by Stump Water, and although SAMMI standards are used

by ALL gun manufacturers for 'chamber dimensions',  the 'throat' length (or free bore area) beyond the chamber

is left up to the manufacturer because SAMMI does not have specific specifications for the 'throat'. (free bore).

 

..........Widder

 

Ah, I understand now. I thought perhaps a step in the manufacturing process was skipped. Thanks. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

12 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Ah, I understand now. I thought perhaps a step in the manufacturing process was skipped. Thanks. 

 

according to one of the articles in one of those links, SAMMI chamber specs are adhered to, but as for 'throat' (or free bore length)

of some barrels, especially those made outside of the USA, SAMMI has no control.

And of course, my CZ pistol has the shortest throat, which is making me seat bullets to shorter OAL, depending upon bullet

style.  And my two favorite bullets are both HP style.   One is the Sierra 125 grain HP and the other is the NOSLER  124 grain

'ASP' style bullet.

 

And get this......... both bullets are .548 in length but because their design is slightly different,  the OAL of each has to be

a little different from one another.    Again, those links posted by Stump Water are VERY helpful and I now realize that

other folks have experienced the same issues.

 

..........Widder

 

[G W Wade]

Got on a 9 mill kick a couple of years ago.   First problem was a Canik with a factory installed Salient barrel.  Said no to cast bullets.   Had rethroated by Doug Guy.  Now shoots everything and better.  Second is my SA Prodigy. also match chamber but not as bad as Canik.  I just load to fit those 2 and the others just have to accept it         GW

[G W Wade]

Have had a lot of friends with Kimber 1911"s with same problem.   Great with jacketed but despise cast.   GW

[Widder, SASS #59054]

IN CONCLUSION:

 

I'm gonna load up some testing rounds with appropriate OAL to fit the chambers of each pistol,

using TWO different bullets for their desirable OAL in each pistol.

 

I'm gonna also load up a few extra SHORTER rounds used in the CZ and test for accuracy AND velocity in

the H&K and S&W.

 

The shorter rounds for the CZ will obviously have some 'free bore' when used in the H&K and S&W.

 

I'll compare velocities and accuracy in all these.   Should be an interesting and learning experience.

 

MORE LATER.

 

..........Widder

 

[ShadowCatcher]

16 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

IN CONCLUSION:

 

I'm gonna load up some testing rounds with appropriate OAL to fit the chambers of each pistol,

using TWO different bullets for their desirable OAL in each pistol.

 

I'm gonna also load up a few extra SHORTER rounds used in the CZ and test for accuracy AND velocity in

the H&K and S&W.

 

The shorter rounds for the CZ will obviously have some 'free bore' when used in the H&K and S&W.

 

I'll compare velocities and accuracy in all these.   Should be an interesting and learning experience.

 

MORE LATER.

 

..........Widder

 

If you want to try something fun for speed shooting, I use X-treme plated bullets, specifically the 100 gr (.380) bullets

loaded over 4.0 gr Bullseye, for a measured 1100 f/s out of my 5" Colt, and one hole groups at 30'. 

Fun plinking for steel challenge type matches with no power factor.  Otherwise I use a 147 gr 9mm bullet over 3.5gr

Tite-group, makes a nice load without going all warthog on the wee 9mm.  C.O.L is for my shortest barrel. 

 

SC

 

 

 

 

[J.D. Daily]

On 10/11/2024 at 2:36 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

according to one of the articles in one of those links, SAMMI chamber specs are adhered to, but as for 'throat' (or free bore length)

of some barrels, especially those made outside of the USA, SAMMI has no control.

And of course, my CZ pistol has the shortest throat, which is making me seat bullets to shorter OAL, depending upon bullet

style.  And my two favorite bullets are both HP style.   One is the Sierra 125 grain HP and the other is the NOSLER  124 grain

'ASP' style bullet.

 

And get this......... both bullets are .548 in length but because their design is slightly different,  the OAL of each has to be

a little different from one another.    Again, those links posted by Stump Water are VERY helpful and I now realize that

other folks have experienced the same issues.

 

..........Widder

 

The 2nd pistol I bought was a used 1990's Czechoslovakia made CZ85.  Besides being picky about magazines it prefers 147 gran bullets.  Only factory magazines work reliably.  I would think the profile of 147 grain bullets would more likely engage the rifling.  I have only fired factory ammo in this gun.  I have reloaded 124 grain FMJ for my daughter who has a Glock.  Back when 9mm & 223/556 was cheap I bough factory ammo in 1000 round lots because my time was worth more than the savings by reloading.  Our front door gun is a factory US flag finished Glock 19 that the misses bought when we visited a Carson City LGS during the COVID shortage.  The Glock has fired factory & reloads.

[El Chapo]

I had the same issue with my Shadow 2.  I had it reamed and I can load 1.130" now with a fat 147 grain bullet.  All my other guns take them just fine, it was just the CZ I had issues with.

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Widder, CZ pistols are well known for having short throats.  They were not designed to shoot cast lead round nose bullets with wide ogives.  I also own and regularly shoot a CZ P-01 and had exactly the same problem when I tried to load coated 115gr round nose lead bullets, even to OAL = 1.050" max.  Rather than "fix" a perfectly good gun that is built to its design spec, I decided that I'd be shooting more "standard" profile 115gr FMJ, which I load to OAL = 1.100", and have had ZERO FTFs since then.

[Texas Maverick]

On 10/10/2024 at 2:06 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I own 3 great shooting 9mm pistols:  H&K P30L,  S&W Competitor, and CZ-P01.

 

When I use loading data and seat the bullet(s) to recommended OAL, all of them will drop in and freely fall out of the chamber of the H&K.

 

But with the S&W Competitor, some of those same loads will jam the bullet into the lands and won't freely fall out, indicating a tight fit and in some instances,

prevent the slide from going into battery.

 

Now, even worse, is that MANY of those rounds will jam into the lands of the CZ P01 and/or prevent the slide from going into battery.

 

To solve these issues, I've had to seat certain bullets to a deeper position, having a shorter OAL than the H&K.

 

Naturally, I'm using a couple powders with appropriate powder amounts as to eliminate any 'compressed' loads.

 

QUESTION:  Why did the manufacturer cut their chamber throats of varying lengths that created this situation AND.....

have you experienced this situation with your 9mm's.

 

Thanks

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

Do you have the same problem with new ammo, not reloads? I have the CZ P01 as well as the CZ P10S and I have only shot new ammo in them and never had any issues. I also have a Sig P320 and Sig P365 and they have also been flawless with new ammo. I am thinking about setting up a reloader for 9mm because getting old buying a 1000 rounds every couple of months is getting old. I shoot every couple of weeks with them. I am interested in seeing what others have to say about this problem. Hopefully, I don't run across the same thing in the future.

 

TM

[Widder, SASS #59054]

N.DAMUS

T. MAVERICK:

 

thanks.   I have a SIG P320, BUT.... its in .357 SIG caliber.

 

I have some 'standard' style 115 grain bullets to reload, which I'm sure will work great in all pistols because of their

pointy profile.   But I prefer to load JHP style bullets and this is a learning experience for me in the 9mm.

 

My .357 SIG's, 10mm's, .45 ACP's and .460 Rowland's are seemingly NOT PICKY with most bullet styles and give good

performance.

 

I'll definitely be posting some interesting data soon on Maximum and Minimum OAL's for each pistol in relationship to

a couple particular powder's that I like to use.

 

Thanks EVERYONE for your comments.

 

..........Widder

 

[Texas Maverick]

6 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

N.DAMUS

T. MAVERICK:

 

thanks.   I have a SIG P320, BUT.... its in .357 SIG caliber.

 

I have some 'standard' style 115 grain bullets to reload, which I'm sure will work great in all pistols because of their

pointy profile.   But I prefer to load JHP style bullets and this is a learning experience for me in the 9mm.

 

My .357 SIG's, 10mm's, .45 ACP's and .460 Rowland's are seemingly NOT PICKY with most bullet styles and give good

performance.

 

I'll definitely be posting some interesting data soon on Maximum and Minimum OAL's for each pistol in relationship to

a couple particular powder's that I like to use.

 

Thanks EVERYONE for your comments.

 

..........Widder

 

So far I have only shot 115 gr Blazer FMJ for target practice and 115 gr Blazer JHP for defense rounds. They feed well.

 

TM

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

My Glock 19 eats all, spits all.  CZ P-01, not so much.  That said, the CZ is more accurate than the G19 by a HUGE margin; it is not close, nor even funny, how much the Glock sprays lead all over the place.  But for self-defense at bad-breath distances, the G19 works just fine.  That said, no one is shooting cast lead RN for self defense.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I reload most of my own ammo like most people here. I can't really comment on various factory ammo working in my guns because I don't shoot it. I've shot a little at some point but other then factory self defense ammo I haven't shot much.