Red Oak Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) Began building test loads for my Vaquero 44-40's. Started with powders I have: Unique, TiteGroup, HP-38, and Bullseye. To my surprise, Bullseye was the winner in accuracy and achieved my desired velocity. Anyoe else using Bullseye for revolver only loads? None of the groups were bad, with the biggest spread probably 3 inches. But BE produced a cluster the size of a half dollar from both revolvers. And yes I know, use Holy Black = Problem solved. Edited July 29 by Red Oak Add BP Comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 BullsEye has been a FINE highly accurate target powder for revolvers and pistols for over a hundred years. Sure, I shoot BE in my Cowboy .45 Special loads. Works very well, especially with light loads like we use.. good luck, GJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-eye, SASS#45097 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I’ve been using BE for years in all revolver calibers with great successes. Works well in 45 ACP also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 8 hours ago, Red Oak said: Began building test loads for my Vaquero 44-40's. Started with powders I have: Unique, TiteGroup, HP-38, and Bullseye. To my surprise, Bullseye was the winner in accuracy and achieved my desired velocity. Anyoe else using Bullseye for revolver only loads? None of the groups were bad, with the biggest spread probably 3 inches. But BE produced a cluster the size of a half dollar from both revolvers. And yes I know, use Holy Black = Problem solved. All I have ever shot in my 44-40s was GOEX. Today the issue is not so much which powder, but just finding stainless Ruger Vaqueros in 44-40 as Ruger no longer manufactures them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 10 hours ago, Red Oak said: Began building test loads for my Vaquero 44-40's. Started with powders I have: Unique, TiteGroup, HP-38, and Bullseye. To my surprise, Bullseye was the winner in accuracy and achieved my desired velocity. Anyoe else using Bullseye for revolver only loads? None of the groups were bad, with the biggest spread probably 3 inches. But BE produced a cluster the size of a half dollar from both revolvers. And yes I know, use Holy Black = Problem solved. Laflin & Rand's Bullseye powder was introduced in 1898 to replace L&R's "Smokeless Revolver Powder". This is one of those powders that had several types. There were two or three versions of Bullseye, the first of which was known as Bullseye #1 or “dust” Bullseye. L&R Bullseye #2 was supposed to have been brought out in 1904 as small round black discs .038” dia. X .003”, ostensibly because there were insufficient quantities of #1 to meet demand. It contained 40% NG. This Bullseye #2 is what we identify today as Bullseye, and is believed that it has not changed formula since its introduction in 1898. It went to DuPont in 1907 and to Hercules in 1912. Bullseye, Unique, and Infallible were all made from the same formula, the only difference being granulation. It is still manufactured by Alliant. It was also Bullseye that was blowing up the government's 1909 45 Colt revolvers when their machines kept dumping accidental double charges. Thus the reason they switched to "RSQ" powder (1909 to 1911) ......and eventually reverting back to Bullseye for the 45 Automatic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 What are the throat diameters of your OM Vaquero's in .44-40? What bullet weight and diameter, as well as hardness? I've left my throats at .425", using hardcast 213.5gr .430" diameter bullets, with 8.0 gr. Universal. Got 2.75 dia. 5 round groups at 25 yds from the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacherman Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 If your bullets are .430 with .425 throats and a .429 barrel with Rugers, you're shooting undersized bullets when they enter the barrel. They'll be swaged/resized smaller. Throats should be .429 or larger. A big gripe with Rugers as they're all undersized. Ream to .429 or bigger. I like .430 if they'll chamber. Don't need to be hardcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 3 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said: What are the throat diameters of your OM Vaquero's in .44-40? What bullet weight and diameter, as well as hardness? I've left my throats at .425", using hardcast 213.5gr .430" diameter bullets, with 8.0 gr. Universal. Got 2.75 dia. 5 round groups at 25 yds from the bench. Have you ever revisted your testing you did with that many years ago? Have you duplicated those results. Tried different bullet diameters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 My go to powder for Smokeless loads for 45 Colt and 44-40 has always been Unique. I have always stayed away from BullsEye because the charges are so small. Too easy to accidentally double charge a load. With Unique, which is much bulkier, an accidental double charge should be readily noticeable because it would come close to overflowing the case. For what it's worth, my Smokeless loads for 45 Colt were 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 grain bullet. 44-40 was also 7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain bullet. These are not mouse fart loads, but they are not Max loads either. My reloading notebook says my 45 Colt loads were running around 800 fps out of a 7 1/2" 'original model' Vaquero. I have no 44-40 pistol velocity measurements because all my 44-40s are rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Universal and Unique are pretty close, and since Universal isn't available, I'd go with Unique, probably with Driftwood's load. My own load posted above yielded 950 ft/sec from a 7.5" barrel OM Vaquero with the tight throats. Yes, that is a heft, though SASS-legal load. Haven't done much shooting lately, and have problems with arthritis in my right thumb and shoulder, so I don't know if I could stand that shooting Duelist anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 (edited) On 7/29/2024 at 1:04 PM, Trailrider #896 said: What are the throat diameters of your OM Vaquero's in .44-40? What bullet weight and diameter, as well as hardness? I've left my throats at .425", using hardcast 213.5gr .430" diameter bullets, with 8.0 gr. Universal. Got 2.75 dia. 5 round groups at 25 yds from the bench. Wow. I know Ruger says .4250 and .4260 were the original Cylinder Throat Diameters, but I have found these are way too restrictive, too small, for today's bullets. I had nothing but issues with mine when I first started shooting Ruger Vaqueros in 44-40. I shoot 23 grains of GOEX fffg under a Slippery 200 grain .4280" bullet using Winchester Primers. The cylinders would freeze or become very difficult to turn during a stage. A lot of folks gave me corrective advice, but nothing worked. Until an old sage gunsmith, Colorado Coffinmaker, took a look at my revolvers and my ammo and stated, "your Cylinder throats are way too small". The increased pressure of a .4280 bullet trying to go through a .4250 hole was causing increased back pressure resulting in High Primers. I was told to continue shooting this set-up over time could also cause damage to my revolvers. I have sent sixteen Vaquero Cylinders back to Ruger to have these Cylinder Throats Reamed to .4295 or .430. Ruger will do this at no charge to the customer. The cylinders are returned with very few having the same cylinder throat diameter in all six holes. I bought a Manson .4300" Diameter Reamer from Brownell's and redo all of the Cylinder Throats to ensure that they are all the same Diameter. Manson does not offer for sale a Pilot under .4270, thus Ruger does the initial Reaming and I redo them all once they are returned to make them uniform. My Vaqueros in 44-40 shoot beautifully now. I have had not had any issues with High Primers once Ruger agreed to Ream the Cylinder Throats. Edited July 31 by Frontier Lone Rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITE LIGHTNIN,SASS # 527 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Been reloading with bullseye in every pistol cartridge I reload since 1961 including 44-40 with bullets from 152 grain to 215 rifles shoot 200 the best 152 pistol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 On 7/29/2024 at 3:16 PM, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Have you ever revisted your testing you did with that many years ago? Have you duplicated those results. Tried different bullet diameters? No, but I use hard cast commercial bullets BHN 17-22. While they do get swaged down going through the throats, because of the short dwell time, the compressive stress in the bullet matrix causes the bullet to re-expand in the forcing cone! Accuracy is more than acceptable, and I never got flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Oak Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 On 7/29/2024 at 12:04 PM, Trailrider #896 said: What are the throat diameters of your OM Vaquero's in .44-40? What bullet weight and diameter, as well as hardness? I've left my throats at .425", using hardcast 213.5gr .430" diameter bullets, with 8.0 gr. Universal. Got 2.75 dia. 5 round groups at 25 yds from the bench. Throats pin gaged at .430, barrel slugs at .428. Bullets are the typical 200gr RNFP either from MBC 12 BHN or Chey-Cast 17 BHN. Universal is unobtainium in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 13 hours ago, Red Oak said: Universal is unobtainium in my area. Or, apparently anywhere else. I still have some, but am not loading now until I figure out if I will be able to stand recoil in my hand and shoulder. Maybe we should swap the Aussies a few more submarines if they start making Universal again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Have used A2 for years initially was using Red Dot A2 came along very similar to Red dot and at the time significantly less expensive made the switch prolly 94-95 never looked back. get 1200 rounds or so a pound. Does not take much powder per case so I batch charge 50 at a time into a loading block visually inspect all cases for powder being both present and at the proper level. I then seat all 50 bullets and start filling next 50 cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.