Marlin 1894 JM Cowboy .357 Mag Double Feeds

[Skiddsteer1]

I am using 125grn truncated cone lead bullets at 1.495 OAL. However I am beginning to suspect that the carrier timing is off. I got this OAL as suggested by Longhunter in Amarillo. I welcome any and all ideas at this juncture. Thanks. Skid.

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

Got some modified carriers if you need one.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

The OAL given to you by Longhunter is a GOOD (very good) OAL to use in the 1894.

Regardless of length, the timing on our 1894's will wear somewhat and create that little feed gremlin.

 

Right now, you can possibly help your situation by using a LONGER OAL, but the fact remains that your timing

is wearing and should be fixed.

 

Three good options:

1. as offered, get one of those modified carriers from Jackrabbit Joe.

2. Send your present carrier to Gunner Gatlin and have him give you a .005 lift in your timing ramp (and no higher).

3. TIG weld the timing ramp up slightly.   Your TIG weld might still wear but Gunner Gatlin's mod won't wear.  Its my favorite.

 

EDIT:  Some folks have slightly bent the carrier upwards.  This is not a good remedy because it could allow

the tongue portion of the carrier (the part that hangs down on the front) to rise too high and prevent it

from keeping the next round in the portal.   When that tongue rises higher than needed, your next round

will come out UNDER the carrier.   Then you have a bad jam.

 

..........Widder

 

Edited February 18 by Widder, SASS #59054

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

First thing,  make sure all screws are tight!  

Blackfoot

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Have you checked ALL screws for tightness. 

Look for a notch in the bottom of the carrier where the lever cam makes contact.

[Krazy Kajun]

1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

The OAL given to you by Longhunter is a GOOD (very good) OAL to use in the 1894.

Regardless of length, the timing on our 1894's will wear somewhat and create that little feed gremlin.

 

Right now, you can possibly help your situation by using a LONGER OAL, but the fact remains that your timing

is wearing and should be fixed.

 

Three good options:

1. as offered, get one of those modified carriers from Jackrabbit Joe.

2. Send your present carrier to Gunner Gatlin and have him give you a .005 lift in your timing ramp (and no higher).

3. TIG weld the timing ramp up slightly.   Your TIG weld might still wear but Gunner Gatlin's mod won't wear.  Its my favorite.

 

EDIT:  Some folks have slightly bent the carrier upwards.  This is not a good remedy because it could allow

the tongue portion of the carrier (the part that hangs down on the front) to rise too high and prevent it

from keeping the next round in the portal.   When that tongue rises higher than needed, your next round

will come out UNDER the carrier.   Then you have a bad jam.

 

..........Widder

 

Palewolf Widder has spoken.....Consummatum est  

 

Kajun

[Long Hunter SASS #20389L]

Ditto to what Widder said. Another thing to check is the floorplate. The inside of the floorplate can get beat out. The picture is of a brand new Ruger Marlin already showing where is will eventfully get beat out. Look at the inside of your floorplate and see if it is worn. If it is, spot weld those spots and finish it down to original profile. Your problem could be these worn spots are allowing the carrier to drop to low. Same thing as the bottom screw being loose and the floorplate dropping.

 

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

Skiddsteer1 sending you a PM

[Long Hunter SASS #20389L]

FYI: I achieve the the longer 38sp ammo by using a Dillon taper crimp die and crimping the round at the top of the lube ring. The edge of the brass is right below where the lube ring starts and results in no brass edge on the loaded round. They feed like butter in the 1873's/66's and Marlins. Also use the same ammo in the revolvers. Need to increase the powder charge about .2-.3 if you go from crimp ring to lube ring. 

 

 

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

Skiddsteer1 Carrier on its way pilgrim.

Sent regular mail. Let me know you got same.

JRJ

Edited February 20 by Jackrabbit Joe #414

[Skiddsteer1]

Thanks so much Jackrabbit and everyone else!

[Skiddsteer1]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:13 AM, Jackrabbit Joe #414 said:

Skiddsteer1 Carrier on its way pilgrim.

Sent regular mail. Let me know you got same.

JRJ

Jackrabbit, got carrier. I am sending you a check for $30.00 this PM. Thanks Skid.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Skiddsteer1 said:

Jackrabbit, got carrier. I am sending you a check for $30.00 this PM. Thanks Skid.

Is it fixed now? 

[Skiddsteer1]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Is it fixed now? 

Lumpy I will let you know when I put it in this PM. Thanks.

[watab kid]

hope its fixed , see you at wows or pitv , want to see that rifle running well , 

[Skiddsteer1]

On 2/18/2024 at 9:12 AM, Long Hunter SASS #20389L said:

Ditto to what Widder said. Another thing to check is the floorplate. The inside of the floorplate can get beat out. The picture is of a brand new Ruger Marlin already showing where is will eventfully get beat out. Look at the inside of your floorplate and see if it is worn. If it is, spot weld those spots and finish it down to original profile. Your problem could be these worn spots are allowing the carrier to drop to low. Same thing as the bottom screw being loose and the floorplate dropping.

 

Yes Long Hunter there is a pretty good gouge in this location(s), Each side where the tongue of the carrier comes through. Can this be ground out? Also Jackrabbit Joe sent me one of his improved carriers. Thanks Skid.

[Long Hunter SASS #20389L]

No sir, you don't grind it out. You spot weld the two spots and grind the them back to the original profile of the floorplate.

[Skiddsteer1]

1 hour ago, Long Hunter SASS #20389L said:

No sir, you don't grind it out. You spot weld the two spots and grind the them back to the original profile of the floorplate.

Well, as of this writing I will tell you that I was able to FLITZ them out. I will also tell you and Lumpy Gritz that the rifle cycles great without a dummy cartridge. However upon use of a dummy, the cartridge hangs up upon entering the chamber, then with a slight release of the lever it will chamber, marring the bullet I suspect from the top of the chamber. My crimping is good and COAL is at 1.495. Thanks Skid.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

51 minutes ago, Skiddsteer1 said:

Well, as of this writing I will tell you that I was able to FLITZ them out. I will also tell you and Lumpy Gritz that the rifle cycles great without a dummy cartridge. However upon use of a dummy, the cartridge hangs up upon entering the chamber, then with a slight release of the lever it will chamber, marring the bullet I suspect from the top of the chamber. My crimping is good and COAL is at 1.495. Thanks Skid.

Carrier timing is off.

The carrier rising to fast.

Just for giggles, remove the extractor

from the bolt and see if a rnd will chamber smoothly. 

Try the same with the ejector removed.

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

IF the carrier is rising to fast or too high, its caused by the correlation between the plunger stud on the carrier and the FLAT EDGE of the

lever that extends out from the front of the snail cam.

 

That being stated, I ain't sure your problem is caused by that.

 

BUT, as Lumpy mentioned, remove the EXTRACTOR and cycle some rounds (one at a time because you will have to manually

pull each of them out of the chamber).

 

I'm gonna guess your problem is caused by one of two things.... or a combination of both.

1.  Your EXTRACTOR spring is strong...... to strong to move a little back and forth when the rim is trying to push under it.

2. Marlin chambers often have a sharp edge at the 12 o'clock entry position of the chamber.   You can lightly relieve this

by some light polishing between the 11:00 and 1:00 position of the chamber entrance.  I've seen some 1894's

with slight burrs at the chamber entrance also.

 

Now I will tell you another gremlin that, from my experience, is part of feeding issues with Marlin 1894's.

The FRONT wings, particularly the inside (left) wing can often serve as a deflector and in effect, push the

profile of some bullets off center somewhat.   The faster a shooter runs the rifle, the more deflection can occur.

 

I kinda hate to share the remedy because I don't want to be responsible for someone making a bad mistake on

their carrier........BUT, I've had good success cutting down that wing about 70%, and reshaping the area on the carrier

where the cartridge lies to keep it more centered to enter the chamber.

You could refer to the 'reshaping' as actually making a slight 'CRADLE' for the cartridge.

A word of warning:   do NOT allow your cradle to extend to the front of the carrier.  The height of the front is critical

in its function during the downward stroke of the lever.   If you lower the front edge of the carrier, you will likely

create the Marlin Jam again.

 

Best regards.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

If you are taking the carrier out and putting it back in often,  may try this trick.

 

 

[Skiddsteer1]

Thanks all, I will attempt at least one of the remedies mentioned. In case you forgot, I installed a new modified carrier from Jack Rabbit Joe I got in the mail last night without much examination/polishing. Because I did take down by buffing and Flitzing the afore mentioned floor plate, I may have to build it up again with a tig weld or as a temporary remedy JB Weld and take it down again as I suspect the carrier is going too far down and the cartridge is coming up tipped primer end down before entering the chamber.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

The carrier being in its down position and the carrier coming upwards to feed a round into the chamber are

two separate mechanical functions.   Fixing up that 'notch' in the floor plate has no effect on the rising function

of the carrier feeding a round into the chamber.   But, it can have an effect on creating the Marlin Jam situation,

as Long Hunter was emphasizing.

 

When the carrier is in its down position (lever closed), it rest on that floor plate AND basically, the timing 

ramp is also resting on the snail cam.   That is why,  when you SLOWLY move the lever downward, you will notice

the tongue on the carrier will start to rise up into the receiver.   This is SOLELY caused by the snail cam rotating up

the timing ramp (the ramp on the bottom of the carrier).

This action ONLY moves the carrier upwards about 1/4" or so........ really not much at all.

 

THEN, when you start closing the action (bring the lever back upwards), the snail cam and timing ramp

separate.   The carrier rises because its plunger stud is riding the flat portion of the lever in front of the snail cam

area.   

 

Your problem is common among Marlins that have feeding issues.   Sometimes, one of the 'fixes' above can

help solve it.  If you reach a point of 'flabbergasted',  consider sending it to a good Marlin smith like Long Hunter

or Slater.

 

..........Widder (I'm a retired kitchen table butcher'r) 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by Widder, SASS #59054

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

41 minutes ago, Skiddsteer1 said:

Thanks all, I will attempt at least one of the remedies mentioned. In case you forgot, I installed a new modified carrier from Jack Rabbit Joe I got in the mail last night without much examination/polishing. Because I did take down by buffing and Flitzing the afore mentioned floor plate, I may have to build it up again with a tig weld or as a temporary remedy JB Weld and take it down again as I suspect the carrier is going too far down and the cartridge is coming up tipped primer end down before entering the chamber.

Can you post a video showing the feed issues?

 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

4 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

The carrier being in its down position and the carrier coming upwards to feed a round into the chamber are

two separate mechanical functions.   Fixing up that 'notch' in the floor plate has no effect on the rising function

of the carrier feeding a round into the chamber.

 

When the carrier is in its down position (lever closed), it rest on that floor plate AND basically, the timing 

ramp is also resting on the snail cam.   That is why,  when you SLOWLY move the lever downward, you will notice

the tongue on the carrier will start to rise up into the receiver.   This is SOLELY caused by the snail cam rotating up

the timing ramp (the ramp on the bottom of the carrier).

This action ONLY moves the carrier upwards about 1/4" or so........ really not much at all.

 

THEN, when you start closing the action (bring the lever back upwards), the snail cam and timing ramp

separate.   The carrier rises because its plunger stud is riding the flat portion of the lever in front of the snail cam

area.   

 

Your problem is common among Marlins that have feeding issues.   Sometimes, one of the 'fixes' above can

help solve it.  If you reach a point of 'flabbergasted',  consider sending it to a good Marlin smith like Long Hunter

or Slater.

 

..........Widder (I'm a retired kitchen table butcherer) 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that description Widder.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 minute ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Thanks for that description Widder.

Don't tell'em I said this.... 

He's a dang good teacher

[Eyesa Horg]

1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Don't tell'em I said this.... 

He's a dang good teacher

You're not so bad yourself Pard 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Lumpy is always reminding me to check the screws, first and foremost.

Its one of the best advices I've ever been given.

 

..........Widder

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:27 AM, Jackrabbit Joe #414 said:

Got some modified carriers if you need one.

Can you tell/show us these carriers? 

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:34 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Can you tell/show us these carriers? 

I will return home after EOT Mar 5 or 6

[Skiddsteer1]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:19 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Is it fixed now? 

The short answer is NO it is not fixed. It no longer double feeds however. I have buffed the sharp edges going into the chamber. Buffed out the cuts on the bottom inside of the floor plate and applied two (one each side of the hole where the small tongue of the carrier protrudes) one layer of aluminum tape. I double checked my crimping. At this point I am considering re-sizing the bullets to .357 and trying that (dummies). The first cartridge will not feed without marring the bullet first and then the case as the round is attempted to be chambered but will chamber on subsequent levering two or three times. COAL is 1.495 as was suggested.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

4 hours ago, Skiddsteer1 said:

The short answer is NO it is not fixed. It no longer double feeds however. I have buffed the sharp edges going into the chamber. Buffed out the cuts on the bottom inside of the floor plate and applied two (one each side of the hole where the small tongue of the carrier protrudes) one layer of aluminum tape. I double checked my crimping. At this point I am considering re-sizing the bullets to .357 and trying that (dummies). The first cartridge will not feed without marring the bullet first and then the case as the round is attempted to be chambered but will chamber on subsequent levering two or three times. COAL is 1.495 as was suggested.

Can you post a picture of the cartridge you use?

And a picture or two, of how it enters the chamber?

Do you have a case gauge to confirm cartridge fitment in chamber?

Edited March 4 by The Original Lumpy Gritz

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:34 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Can you tell/show us these carriers? 

Ok Lumpy here are some photo's (5) May be hard to see ????. I wanted to add that the lift I use is .005.

Buy the way Lumpy . one of those carriers is a Fixed as a Widder Maker. Widder taught me that how to-do one. 

 

Ok any comments fine if not fine. Yeah, Haw!  God bless you all.

Keep Your Head Down Pilgrims & Your Powder Dry!

Edited March 6 by Jackrabbit Joe #414
Correct Spelling & add Info on Widder Carrier.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thank you!  

Really like the wider ramp.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Jackrabbit Joe,

I think you did a great job.

 

Skidsteer mentioned that his feeding from the tube onto the carrier problem was solved but he now

has an issue with the rounds feeding 'smoothly' into the chamber.

 

Those good ramps is what solved his initial jamming issues because it corrected the slow timing of his worn carrier.

 

I still think some of his feeding into the chamber problems are due to an overly stiff EXTRACTOR.   But without actually

checking out the rifle, its hard to always give an accurate remedy.

 

Take care my friends.

 

..........Widder