Getting into long range, need guidance on bore, and reloading 38-55

[JackSlade]

I'll try to keep this concise and list only relevant details.

 

I am interested in buying a Cimarron 1885 High Wall in 38-55.

SKU: CA885

Cimarron has a data chart for their bore diameters straight from Uberti (attachment 1) which lists the bore diameter at .379".

I plan on getting a mold to cast my own bullets, however I'm not sure which mold I should look at. I've read reviews that Lee's 379-250-RF is mislabeled and will only cast .375-.377 size bullets.

I'm leaning more toward Lyman, but even their mold only casts up to .379". Ideally, I'd like to not paper patch or gas check and of my ammo just as a matter of preference.

I usually get starline brass and read their article on why they started offering two different lengths of 38-55. (Attachments 2 and 3)

 

Long story short, I'm not sure which combination of brass, bullet mold, and any other extra things I'll need for this. I have some level of confidence in Uberti's data, but I can already hear everyone telling me to slug my barrel to be sure. Outside of that, does anyone have any experience they can say I'll be better off going one way or any of the others?

[Cholla]

I recommend you read up on mold beagling. I did it to increase the diameter of my .406 bullets for 40-82. All you need is the aluminum duct sealing tape. My article on the topic is on the Guns magazine website or you can check out castboolits.com and search for beagling bullets. 

[JackSlade]

So I think I'm a bit confused as it's *groove* diameter that's listed as .379" and *bore* diameter listed as .373". If that's the case, should .375" diameter bullets be the suggestion, and as such use brass with a thicker neck to allow for a thinner bullet?

[Sedalia Dave]

Accurate Molds will make a mold for your 38-55 that can be customized to drop any diameter you want.  No extra charge for the customization.

Take a look at their catalog.

[Sedalia Dave]

4 minutes ago, JackSlade said:

So I think I'm a bit confused as it's *groove* diameter that's listed as .379" and *bore* diameter listed as .373". If that's the case, should .375" diameter bullets be the suggestion, and as such use brass with a thicker neck to allow for a thinner bullet?

 

Read this

 

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/loading-with-correct-38-55-winchester-cases-38-55-rifle/?force_isolation=true

[JackSlade]

2 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Read this

 

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/loading-with-correct-38-55-winchester-cases-38-55-rifle/?force_isolation=true

Yeah, I mentioned it in my post, and then double checked the Cimarron chart after rereading it.

[Sedalia Dave]

I have a Uberti Highwall in 38-55 and with a .379 bullet, Winchester brass will not chamber. Chambers just fine using Starline Brass.

 

You do have to take a little care when reloading Starline 38-55 Brass. The thin necks are easiy damaged.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

DOWN the rabbit hole ya go 

 

 1st thing is to slug the bore , on every 38-55 you have , then you can get to what you need 

 

 I was messing with 6 , different 38-55s , and about ended up off the deep end , until I slugged the bores 

 

 they were all over the place from .375 to .380  

 

  Good luck 

 

  CB 

[JackSlade]

25 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

I have a Uberti Highwall in 38-55 and with a .379 bullet, Winchester brass will not chamber. Chambers just fine using Starline Brass.

 

You do have to take a little care when reloading Starline 38-55 Brass. The thin necks are easily damaged.

What's you're bore diameter and what BHN are your bullets?

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

It would not hurt to make a chamber cast , just so you know what it is for sure 

 

  CB 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why did you chose that caliber. 

.45-70 would be better to start with.

[Sedalia Dave]

14 minutes ago, JackSlade said:

What's you're bore diameter and what BHN are your bullets?

 

Bore is .379 My Accurate mold drops a .381 diameter bullet using 20:1 alloy. I size it to .379.

 

Rifle will drive tacks if I do my part.  

[JackSlade]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Bore is .379 My Accurate mold drops a .381 diameter bullet using 20:1 alloy. I size it to .379.

 

Rifle will drive tacks if I do my part.  

This is what I would like to replicate. Did you measure groove diameter when you slugged? I'd be surprised the vote is that large compared to their data.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Sedalia Dave is right on with his brief comment above.

 

The GROOVE diameter is what folks commonly measure when slugging the barrel.  It's real hard to measure the BORE diameter, which the the diameter of the drill and reamer used to cut what remains as the surface of the lands.  But any precise caliper or micrometer will measure the GROOVE diameter of a bullet driven down the barrel of a rifle with an even number of lands (or grooves) in the barrel, since the nubs/ribs sticking up on the lead slug that you drive through the barrel are what the measuring device will contact.  Those ribs are from the GROOVES in the barrel.

 

So, even though some folks talk about "bore diameter," what really counts is the GROOVE diameter.   Because best accuracy often comes from sizing the slugs to 0.001 or 0.002" over groove diameter.    It is best to stop talking about bore, and concentrate on speaking about the groove dimensions.

 

(For example, a 30-06 rifle normally has a 0.300" bore, but uses bullets that at least fill the grooves completely, the grooves are usually cut to 0.308", so this means bullets that you buy are 0.308" or slightly larger, especially cast bullets).

 

Unless you want to start making mold modifications (beagling) or bumping up bullets (both are kind of advanced techniques for most SASS shooters), it would be wise to pick a mold that drops bullets in the alloy you will use at 0.380 or 0.381" diameter, for that Uberti made 38-55 rifle.

 

And wise to find a mold that is not cut for gas checks, as most molds you find will be cut to make a gas-check design bullet.  The common practice for most long range shooters is to use a gas-check bullet, as it often proves more accurate than a plain base slug.

 

good luck, GJ

 

[Griff]

Step one:  buy rifle,

Step two:  measure groove & bore diameters,

Step three:  THEN buy mold, sizer and components.

 

All the advertising mumbo-jumbo is just so much gibberish until you have the actual article in hand.

[JackSlade]

Yeah I think I'll go the Accurate route. Those molds look real nice.

Thanks for all the help and info

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

36 minutes ago, JackSlade said:

Yeah I think I'll go the Accurate route. Those molds look real nice.

Thanks for all the help and info

Look at Brooks Moulds 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

On 1/15/2024 at 5:48 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Look at Brooks Moulds 

 

Very nice molds, most seem to be BP examples in his gallery.   Does he do smokeless designs, gas check designs, and multiple cavity (2 is what I like for rifle shooting) molds?   Can he do custom designs that don't fit his "data entry" pages on the web site?

 

Kinda steeply priced, though,

 

good luck, GJ

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Very nice molds, most seem to be BP examples in his gallery.   Does he do smokeless designs, gas check designs, and multiple cavity (2 is what I like for rifle shooting) molds?   Can he do custom designs that don't fit his "data entry" pages on the web site?

 

Kinda steeply priced, though,

 

good luck, GJ

You get what you pay for. 

Call him, he'll make what you want.

Another source of top line moulds is Buffalo Arms Company. 

[Kid Rich]

BACO makes a great mold for 38-55, 38-56. I have one and it casts a 255 g bullet at .3795 with soft lead. Works great in Shirttails Browning Highwall and my Winchester 38-56. I do not size it for either.

kR

PS the Highwall slugs at .375 and the Winchester slugs at .3805 both will shoot a little over 2" group at 200 yds.

Edited January 17 by Kid Rich

[Fretless]

One person above mentioned taking a mould of your chamber.  Learning the chamber length is critical.  If you want to hit where you're aiming, your finished cartridges should to match the full and complete length of the chamber.  In fact, it's a good thing if it takes just a tiny bit of force to seat the cartridge.

 

DO NOT full length resize your brass.  You only need to expand as deep as the bullet will seat, and use the smallest possible flare.  You may find that after you use a piece of brass one time, you don't need to expand at all, and only a tiny flare is needed to seat the bullet.  That's ideal, as that brass is now fire formed to perfectly fit your chamber.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, Fretless said:

One person above mentioned taking a mould of your chamber.  Learning the chamber length is critical.  If you want to hit where you're aiming, your finished cartridges should to match the full and complete length of the chamber.  In fact, it's a good thing if it takes just a tiny bit of force to seat the cartridge.

 

DO NOT full length resize your brass.  You only need to expand as deep as the bullet will seat, and use the smallest possible flare.  You may find that after you use a piece of brass one time, you don't need to expand at all, and only a tiny flare is needed to seat the bullet.  That's ideal, as that brass is now fire formed to perfectly fit your chamber.

Each rifle has it's own sweet spot.

I FL size for both of my Shiloh's. 

The target sez to do it. 

I use a .45-90 FL die for the .45-70, and a .45-110 FL die for my .45-90. 

[Snake-eye, SASS#45097]

I recently got a Marlin 336 in 38-55. It’s a great cartridge for long range as well as straight wall cartridge hunting. I’ve slugged the barrel on my Marlin, it measured out at .380. I’ve shoot gas checked lead bullets from .380 to .377 all with great accuracy out of the rifle. I’m getting 1-1/2” to 2” groups at 100 yards with iron sights from a sand bag rest. The point is how well a rifle performs is dependent on knowing the specs of rifle and experimenting with varying loads and bullets. Best of luck, it’s a rewarding journey.