Form 4473

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

You'd also be shocked to learn that people plead guilty to felonies every day in your area and don't go to prison.  Then they violate their probation and they still don't go to prison.  The entire system is a farce.  Laws are really only for those who want to follow them.  Everyone else has some kind of excuse.

 

And no, probation probably isn't fun, but it's nowhere near as "not fun" as prison.

 

Almost every day the Sonoma County Sheriff or the Santa Rosa Police Dept, or both, post on their FB pages of the arrest of a felon, and almost every time along with the charges of possession of narcotics for sale, is "Felon in possession of firearms."  About a third of the time the person is either out on bail (or bailless) or released from prison/jail within the previous week.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

always seems to get off on some technically

 

 

That I don't mind too much.  It shows that the State didn't follow the law and/or the Constitution.  I WANT the State to be forced to stay strictly to the rules, just as I have to do.  Those "technicalities" protect all of us from the overwhelming, terrible power of the State.

[Eyesa Horg]

4 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

That I don't mind too much.  It shows that the State didn't follow the law and/or the Constitution.  I WANT the State to be forced to stay strictly to the rules, just as I have to do.  Those "technicalities" protect all of us from the overwhelming, terrible power of the State.

What bothers me though, is like our local clown, gets roughly 20 charges a year dropped for driving in a criminally suspended license and assault charges. Drives his car to court, pleads brain injury and they drop them again. Usually gets arrested on the way back home for the same charge or drug possession! It's a giant revolving door and he laughs it off and brags about it. Or the thug who's been prosecuted for beating up his wife, but the prosecution isn't allowed to bring up all the previous cases. Professional criminals know how to play the game and the defense attorneys teach them how.

[Subdeacon Joe]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:32 PM, watab kid said:

the only way a law is a deterrent is if there is a severe penalty and in my mind both are severe crimes - serve the time [they wont reoffend in that time period] the law abiding have the right to be protected .......................otherwise let us deal with it ourselves ,

 

About a week ago in Stockton CA the employees at a 7-11 beat down a wouldbe freelance socialist who was helping himself to cigarettes.  He was taunting them, "Ain't nothin' gonna happen.  Call the police, they ain't gonna do nothin'"  A rather graphic video went viral:

 

 

Here's how CBS Stockton covered it, note how almost instantly the talking heads try to make the employees who stopped the crime the real criminals:
 

 

The thief, who was led away by the guy filming, who I suspect was a friend or accomplice, kept reaching back as if to pull a gun, so until he is neutralized he is a threat.  And you can bet that the guy filming wouldn't have been saying "That's enough" if the thug had been beating the employees the same way.

[Subdeacon Joe]

15 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

What bothers me though, is like our local clown, gets roughly 20 charges a year dropped for driving in a criminally suspended license and assault charges. Drives his car to court, pleads brain injury and they drop them again. Usually gets arrested on the way back home for the same charge or drug possession! It's a giant revolving door and he laughs it off and brags about it. Or the thug who's been prosecuted for beating up his wife, but the prosecution isn't allowed to bring up all the previous cases. Professional criminals know how to play the game and the defense attorneys teach them how.

 

Which means the laws need to be changed, or the charges more carefully crafted.  
Emotionally I agree with you.  But, as we see with gun laws, emotion makes for bad law.

[Cypress Sun]

I saw the 7/11 video with the stick "beating"...I wish they'd have used a baseball bat marked 34.

[Eyesa Horg]

There lies the issue, they know the employees aren't supposed to defend themselves or the store, so just keep doing it. An acquaintance that works for Walmart was trained to help the shoplifter and ask if needed anything else. What the heck are we coming to? I understand not putting yourself in danger, but sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Bet that guy will be back robbing the 7-11 again and will probably have a weapon the next time. Even with the cops across the street, thingsTHUGS have nothing to worry about anymore.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

I saw the 7/11 video with the stick "beating"...I wish they'd have used a baseball bat marked 34.

 

I think he was very lucky that an employee was unintentionally shielding his head and torso.

[watab kid]

8 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

About a week ago in Stockton CA the employees at a 7-11 beat down a wouldbe freelance socialist who was helping himself to cigarettes.  He was taunting them, "Ain't nothin' gonna happen.  Call the police, they ain't gonna do nothin'"  A rather graphic video went viral:

 

 

Here's how CBS Stockton covered it, note how almost instantly the talking heads try to make the employees who stopped the crime the real criminals:
 

 

The thief, who was led away by the guy filming, who I suspect was a friend or accomplice, kept reaching back as if to pull a gun, so until he is neutralized he is a threat.  And you can bet that the guy filming wouldn't have been saying "That's enough" if the thug had been beating the employees the same way.

i agree - seems there needs to be more folks that stand up - but , the media will crucify and most likely the prosecuter will go after the threatened employee 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Laws and regulations do not prevent unlawful acts. They merely specify punishment. Therefore they only work for law abiding people. We have discussed this many times. It does no good to discuss it with a liberal who is convinced laws solve problems.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I be thinking of going in the backhoe rental business 

 

  who wants to help funding the start up ? 

 

  

 

  

[The Shoer 27979]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:42 PM, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

I be thinking of going in the backhoe rental business 

 

  who wants to help funding the start up ? 

 

  

 

  

Around 20 years ago, I was on a job site having lunch with a bunch of guys I knew. The conversation turned to guns. I knew this one guy that was there was an ex con, he started getting real nosy about where I lived. I told him if he could get over my fence or though my gate, past my dogs and into my house, that I had a 15ft extendahoe ( that's all I ever knew them as ) and 10 acres. He quit talking got up and left. 

[El Chapo]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:55 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Almost every day the Sonoma County Sheriff or the Santa Rosa Police Dept, or both, post on their FB pages of the arrest of a felon, and almost every time along with the charges of possession of narcotics for sale, is "Felon in possession of firearms."  About a third of the time the person is either out on bail (or bailless) or released from prison/jail within the previous week.  

 

Of course they get bail.  At that point, they're presumed to be innocent.  I'm talking about after they're convicted, where they're no longer presumed innocent and the government has met its burden.  Night and day difference.

[Subdeacon Joe]

16 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

Of course they get bail.  At that point, they're presumed to be innocent.  I'm talking about after they're convicted, where they're no longer presumed innocent and the government has met its burden.  Night and day difference.

 

I was pointing out that these stellar citizens with  felony convictions are able to get firearms within days of being released from state prison or county jail.

 

And then do something that brings them to the attention of the police, who then arrest them again for being a felon in possession of a firearm.   Then they get an OR release and the cycle repeats.

[El Chapo]

8 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I was pointing out that these stellar citizens with  felony convictions are able to get firearms within days of being released from state prison or county jail.

 

And then do something that brings them to the attention of the police, who then arrest them again for being a felon in possession of a firearm.   Then they get an OR release and the cycle repeats.

 

People are often not convicted for a year or more after an arrest for a felony.  They are basically never convicted before the judge sees them and sets a bond/conditions of release.  Those released from jail, even if the arrest is for a felony, are not prohibited by law from possessing firearms.  They are often, even routinely, prohibited by court order from doing so, but there is no law that says an accused is a prohibited possessor (and actually I have serious doubt that such a law, if it existed, would survive constitutional challenge).  If they are under indictment for a felony, then they are prohibited by a federal law that is virtually never enforced from receiving a firearm, but few of them are stupid enough to attempt that, and even where they are, I've not seen the ATF investigate because they were actually not successful in receiving the firearm once they flunk the NICS check.

 

Those released from prison are on parole.  Parolees are not entitled to bail at all and if they are accused of violating their parole, are routinely ordered held without bond.  Parole is administrative (and therefore not judicial, no judge) and so whether they get granted bail on their new crime is irrelevant; generally they're not going anywhere until their parole hearing, which regularly and routinely results in their parole being revoked.  It also could be months before that hearing is even scheduled.  Parolees are convicted already; the rights of a person who is only accused do not apply to that scenario.  Sure, they're presumed innocent of the new crime, but the parole violation is totally separate, has a lower standard of proof, and they are screwed unless somehow there isn't credible evidence of the new crime/parole violation, of which possessing a weapon would be the worst of all violations absent committing a new, violent crime.

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

6 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

Those released from prison are on parole.  Parolees are not entitled to bail at all and if they are accused of violating their parole, are routinely ordered held without bond. 

 

In the past year the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department has posted/had press releases of felons arrested for felon in possession within a month of a prior arrest for felon in possession.  All I can go by is what the Sheriff's Department and Santa Rosa Police Department release.   

 

Maybe the Public Information Officer (or whatever the title is) is stating it poorly.  But that's how the press releases have read.  

[El Chapo]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:09 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

In the past year the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department has posted/had press releases of felons arrested for felon in possession within a month of a prior arrest for felon in possession.  All I can go by is what the Sheriff's Department and Santa Rosa Police Department release.   

 

Maybe the Public Information Officer (or whatever the title is) is stating it poorly.  But that's how the press releases have read.  

 

Of course!  Because an arrest doesn't really mean anything.  It's not a conviction.  It is unconstitutional to punish a person prior to their conviction.

 

Also, FWIW, I've never seen someone sent to prison for felon in possession unless there was a mandatory minimum sentence attached.  Judges do not care about that unless it's along for the ride with a new, violent crime.

 

Those of you who haven't worked in the criminal justice system probably look at the statutes and think that since the penalty is 3 years for a crime, that someone would genuinely fear getting 3 years in prison for a crime like felon in possession.  The reality is far more cynical; even people caught repeatedly for status crimes like felon in possession hardly ever see a jail and virtually never see a prison sentence for that crime unless they violate probation/parole.  Our system has the appearance of looking harsh, but in reality, people virtually never get what they deserve, unless they kill or seriously injure someone.