Hermann Kuhl Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Seems like there are a couple unofficial classes within the classifications and I'm curious about them. I've heard of Pale Rider as a sort of big bore, full house BP cartridge class. Am I getting that right? Super keen on that one and I'd like to know more. Are there others? Like in B-Western is there a parody class where anyone in a skin tight light blue body suit with the muscles to pull it off can load 5 in a "seven shot six shooter"? Or maybe like a Back to the Future III type setup? Any posse specific or regional things I might hear about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Here are a coupla old posts made by me between 2007 and 2018. I believe they are still generally true, but a few details may have changed. These categories are fairly common in the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana area. --Dawg Pale Rider: It's for full-load BP shooters: Load requirements: Revolver and Rifle 40 caliber and above 200 grain projectile 25 grains by volume of bp or SASS-approved bp substitute *note: 38-40 shooters may use a 180 grain projectile BUT must use 30 grains by volume of bp/sub. Shotgun Double or 87 Only 60 grs by volume of bp/sub 1 1/8 oz or more of shot Cap & Ball shooters 30 grains by volume of bp/sub The category is shot duelist style. Double duelist is allowed. There is now also a Pale Rider Gunfighter category --Prairie Dawg ***************** Both of these posts were written by me in 2007 on The Open Range forum. It all stems from the Kentucky State Championship match at Hooten Old Town Regulators. They have several categories: Champeenship of the Hillbilly Nation (CHN) Competitors can sign up for the main match in FCD, Duelist, Classic, or other as long as they adhere to FCD equipment and guidelines. All pistols are shot in the SASS Duelist category manner. Double duelist is allowed. Pistols : 250 or heavier gr. boolits and full 45 LC cases of FF 777 (touching the base of the boolit- no cookies, cards, fiber wads, cereal, caulking rod, or any other fillers). 777 Only Rifle : Rifle caliber must be 38 WCF, 44 WCF, 44 Mag or 45 LC and loaded with 777 to touch the boolit base (180 gr minimum). No loads broken down. 777 only Shotgun : Double barrel or '87 shotgun firing a 60 grain powder charge and 1 1/8 oz. shot (both minimums). Any type of BP powder or subs for Shotgun. Sultan of Smoke (SoS) Shooters from the SASS BP Match definition of the categories of FCD, Frontiersman, Duelist, Sr. Duelist, Classic Cowboy and Others are eligible. ie One Handed only. All pistols are shot in the SASS Duelist category manner. Double duelist is allowed, see below for gunfighters. Pistols and Rifle: 40 cal and up - 200 grain and up - 25 grains of powder and up 38-40 - 180 grain - 30 grains of powder and up Cap and Bal. 44 cal and up - round ball - 30 grains of powder and up Powder: Real Black Pyrodex 777 APP or Pinnacle and other Black Powder Substitutes ARE allowed Shotgun: 60 grains of any powder (including APP and Pinnacle) 1 1/8 oz shot same as CHN Double barrel and 87 97 is not allowed King of Kaboom (KoK) Same rules as SoS, however, two handed shooting is allowed. Notes Duelist can enter KoK if desired Gunfighers can more than likely enter KoK. Final says is up to match officials. These category requirements, as well as Pale Rider & Pale Rider GunFighter are pretty common in this part of the country. But, as it is an unofficial category, requirements might vary where other folks shoot. --Dawg Note: I believe Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation now allows the use of Black Powder, and not just 777. ************** Posted September 3, 2018 Howdy, rules may differ from club to club, match to match. Good Luck From The Indiana Black Powder Guild; Josey Wales Josey Wales participants will shoot 4 SASS main match revolvers and a double barrel or lever action shotgun. No rifle is required for this category. Revolvers may be shot duelist or gunfighter, 10 shots at the pistol targets and 10 shots at the rifle targets. Gunfighter style may only be utilized from revolvers secured in straight hang holsters from opposite sides of the body, or safely staged on props. Pale Rider Pale Rider consists of main match cartridge pistols and lever action rifle of 40 Caliber and above (38-40 on up). For bullet weights of 200 grs or more, a black powder charge of 25 grs by volume (1.6 cc's) is required. For 38-40, a bullet weight of 180 grs is permitted; however, the black powder charge is increased to a minimum of 30 grs by volume (2.0 cc's). 12 gauge shotgun only; minimum charge is 60 grs (4.0 cc's) and 1 1/8 oz of shot. Pale Rider is shot gunfighter style, although a duelist category may be offered, depending on the number of entries for the match. Adding to what Jefro said..... At Tusco, we use 5 pistols (Local tradition) While it was designed as a one-handed category, we allow it to be shot 2 or 1 handed, smokeless or black powder, cartridge or percussion guns. I frequently shoot it with 5 cap guns -- Too Much Fun! Since Josey never had anything but pistols, ours is 5 pistols. You get one shot at each shotgun knockdown. If there are 4 shotgun, JW shooters load only 4 in their "shotgun" pistol. If there are 6, load five rounds and then load the 6th when you first pick up the SG, before you start shooting at the SG targets. All you have to do is hit the target, it does not have to go down to count. At our November JW match, we have 5 shotgun targets on each stage, since we have lotsa JW shooters who only shoot it once a year (At the JW match). This avoids confusion among the infrequent JW shooters, and avoids the problem of folks walking around with live rounds in their holstered guns. as a stage writer, you just need to think about where the JW shooter will stage & restage the "rifle" pistols and the "Shotgun" pistol. I also avoid reloads on the clock, since pistol reloads are really confusing and difficult for those who don't do them much. Feel free to pm me any additional questions It's a great shooting category to those who have shoulder issues and have difficulty shooting a long gun. While we have a special JW match in November, when we encourage as many as possible to shoot JW, we've made it a regular category for our monthly & annual shoots. There's typically 3 of us shooting it, Me, Lifer, & Catlow. We all have shoulder issues. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 Thanks forvthat run down! I saw a few clubs have their own versions of things here and there but it looks pretty consistent. There were some other categories mentioned here as well, very inclusive. https://wowsinc.org/shooting-categories/ I'm heading to Wilmington NC next for a while and hope to fall in on a good posse and try some new things. I have all the right stuff for Pale Rider, Military, and Josie Wales besides the customary ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORNERY OAF Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Pale Rider Gunfighter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Outlaw style is one that really pique's my interest https://www.thss.org/rules/outlaw-rules/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 https://outlawshooters.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 You can shoot the rifle from the hip if you want to but in most scenarios it slows you down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Prairie Dawg has it pretty close. According to the Hooten Old Town 2007 version of the rules (https://www.hootenoldtown.com/trex.htm), 777 is allowed, but not required in Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation, King of Kaboom or Sultan of Smoke. I have been known to dabble in such things from time to time. The Josey Wales category at Oak Ridge, TN is under revision and will closely line up with Prairie Dawg's version. (It's possible that his version was used as our blue print. Thanks, PD! ) Jackalope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 This is a full Outlaw stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 Man...Outlaw with this Taurus pump gun would be a slamfire fiesta! And this 10 gauge loaded dirty with a bunch of shot might actually hit something. So it's no sighting with anything? All natural point of aim. Man this sounds fun. This would be great in B-western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Hermann Kuhl said: Man...Outlaw with this Taurus pump gun would be a slamfire fiesta! And this 10 gauge loaded dirty with a bunch of shot might actually hit something. So it's no sighting with anything? All natural point of aim. Man this sounds fun. This would be great in B-western. It depends, as some ranges do not allow the rifle fired off the shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 Probably a question in depth for the Wild Bunch forum but y'all might know. In the same vein, does anyone know of a "Last Man Standing" category in Wild Bunch shot Josey Wales style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 We shoot JW with 5 pistols, any SASS legal caliber, any SASS legal shooting style and any SASS legal single action. We have a couple of folks who's physical conditions limit them, so we allow it. We even include the category in the TN State Match, which you just missed. Next year! Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: We shoot JW with 5 pistols, any SASS legal caliber, any SASS legal shooting style and any SASS legal single action. We have a couple of folks who's physical conditions limit them, so we allow it. We even include the category in the TN State Match, which you just missed. Next year! Imis Maybe...been a heck of a lot of slow shooting years since I retired and started working again. Hoping a change of scene will put me back in it. I'm coming back and forth between TN and NC for a while so I'll plan on it for next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Herman there are several Wartrace members from the Clarksville area that shoot with us. We shoot cowboy on the first Saturday of the month, Cowboy and Wild Bunch on the third Sat of each month. JW is allowed either match. We also have a Bottom Feeder match the second Sat. , it is an offshoot of GSSF. Imis PM me if you want a phone number and want to talk about it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 21 hours ago, Hermann Kuhl said: And this 10 gauge loaded dirty with a bunch of shot might actually hit something. You MIGHT shoot a 10 gauge more than once from the hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 9:44 AM, Hermann Kuhl said: Man...Outlaw with this Taurus pump gun would be a slamfire fiesta! And this 10 gauge loaded dirty with a bunch of shot might actually hit something. So it's no sighting with anything? All natural point of aim. Man this sounds fun. This would be great in B-western. According to the the Grand Exalted Outlaw Rules, shooting your rifle off shoulder is optional. It does add extra style points on your permanent Outlaw record though. A word of caution a shell casing may be ejected and hit you in the face. If it hits you in the front tooth and breaks said tooth then you become an Ultimate Outlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Kuhl Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Waimea said: According to the the Grand Exalted Outlaw Rules, shooting your rifle off shoulder is optional. It does add extra style points on your permanent Outlaw record though. A word of caution a shell casing may be ejected and hit you in the face. If it hits you in the front tooth and breaks said tooth then you become an Ultimate Outlaw. Well...my pump gun ejects straight up and plenty hard and my front tooth is pretty flimsy so Ultimate Outlaw here I come! I'll post a picture when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Hermann Kuhl said: Well...my pump gun ejects straight up and plenty hard and my front tooth is pretty flimsy so Ultimate Outlaw here I come! I'll post a picture when it happens. I've been an Outlaw for 10 years. I've tried this a couple times. My 73 ejects right at my face. So I only do this on extraordinarily special events. I'm in it for fun and misadventures not to become horribly disfigured by my own hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 That Lighting you just got from Earp should help with that tooth problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, Tn Tombstone said: That Lighting you just got from Earp should help with that tooth problem. I'm thinking so. Still experimenting with it. Plus I've been away from the shop for cataract surgery (new bionic eyes) so my loaded ammo stock has dwindled. Had to resort back to .22 plinking at today's match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 6:52 AM, Jackalope said: Prairie Dawg has it pretty close. According to the Hooten Old Town 2007 version of the rules (https://www.hootenoldtown.com/trex.htm), 777 is allowed, but not required in Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation, King of Kaboom or Sultan of Smoke. I have been known to dabble in such things from time to time. The Josey Wales category at Oak Ridge, TN is under revision and will closely line up with Prairie Dawg's version. (It's possible that his version was used as our blue print. Thanks, PD! ) Jackalope Pretty sure this is pale rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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