Ronnie Miller Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 S&W DA, Third Model, REVOLVER, NICKEL PLATED, 5” BARREL, S/N-232364,1ST PAT. 7-11-1865, LAST PAT. 7-3-1882. Caliber .38 short CONDITION:Like NEW, $550. PLUS SHIPPING TO YOUR FFL If anyone out there could determine the year this gun was built by the s/n it would tell whether it needs to shipped FFL or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoot Gibson Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson the S&W .38 Double Action serial numbers 119001 through 322700 were produced from 1884 through 1895, making this a genuine antique in accordance with BATF rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 By the way, Ronnie. Is this a pocket pistol? Hard to judge the size. What's total length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos John Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 On 6/21/2022 at 6:23 AM, Ronnie Miller said: 1965 & 1982 ARE CORRECT. Is this relatively new? Or a beautiful antique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. M. F. QUINCANNON, #32999 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Guessing it’s a re-nickel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 17 hours ago, Brazos John said: Is this relatively new? Or a beautiful antique? It's not new, pre 1900 for sure. Since it has the 2 place year digits, and it looks so new, I assumed they were 1965 & 1982, when in reality they were 1865 & 1882. It is a super nice pistol. Doc Holiday & Bat Masterson both carried small pistols like this, maybe one of them carried this one????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 8 hours ago, SGT. M. F. QUINCANNON, #32999 said: Guessing it’s a re-nickel. Probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 On 6/21/2022 at 9:28 PM, Tennessee williams said: By the way, Ronnie. Is this a pocket pistol? Hard to judge the size. What's total length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 9" total length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Measure the barrel from the front of the cylinder to the muzzle so we can see if it qualifies for a pocket pistol for Side Matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 It's 4 15/16 inches, exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ronnie Miller said: It's 4 15/16 inches, exactly. Okay, it will be a great shooter, but an inch too long for Pocket Pistol side matches. Wish I had the gold right now for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Weee bit too long for pocket pistol matches, Dang it. 2 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: Okay, it will be a great shooter, but an inch too long for Pocket Pistol side matches. Wish I had the gold right now for it. You beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 4:28 PM, Tennessee williams said: I have an Iver Johnson that somebody cut barrel off to about 1.5 inches. No longer gas a front sight, but at PP distances really doesn’t latter. It’s one of my favorite pocket pistols. if someone really wants a pocket pistol this would likely be a good one. But would have to lop a few inches off the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 54 minutes ago, Hoss said: I have an Iver Johnson that somebody cut barrel off to about 1.5 inches. No longer gas a front sight, but at PP distances really doesn’t latter. It’s one of my favorite pocket pistols. if someone really wants a pocket pistol this would likely be a good one. But would have to lop a few inches off the barrel. Little too much money for one you're gonna chop on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Far too nice an example to molest in any way regardless of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 My competition guns are tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Otherwise I wouldn't chop barrels off pristine SKBs and slam my guns on a table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchy Trigger Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 21 hours ago, Hoss said: if someone really wants a pocket pistol this would likely be a good one. But would have to lop a few inches off the barrel. If it lasted over a hundred years as a good hard five incher, I would hate to lop some off once it has passed its prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 If a collector wanted it for a collection, it would matter; but if someone wanted to use it as a backup carry, as a keeper, it wouldn't matter, especially for that low a price. It would be a very unique, useful pistol if it the cutoff was done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 As it is, there is no practical use for the gun. It has no real collector value. Very unlikely anyone would want it for a carry gun. it would make a good pocket pistol if the barrel were shortened. The price for a good pocket pistol is reasonable. If I was in the market for another PP I would give this one a hard look. If it is truly “like new” with very little wear it would be a good choice. I dont know seller or the specific gun, but this model does make a good pocket pistol. For the record, I have a Colt Lightning with a 4 1/4” barrel. Not PP legal, but does have collector value, so I would not cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Hoss said: As it is, there is no practical use for the gun. It has no real collector value. Very unlikely anyone would want it for a carry gun. it would make a good pocket pistol if the barrel were shortened. The price for a good pocket pistol is reasonable. If I was in the market for another PP I would give this one a hard look. If it is truly “like new” with very little wear it would be a good choice. I dont know seller or the specific gun, but this model does make a good pocket pistol. For the record, I have a Colt Lightning with a 4 1/4” barrel. Not PP legal, but does have collector value, so I would not cut it. Hey Hoss, I've sure been wrong before but I thought ALL lightnings were legal since that model is specifically called out in the SHB as being legal. Be a good clarification for PWB on the wire to make sure. I don't have one but I'd like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: Hey Hoss, I've sure been wrong before but I thought ALL lightnings were legal since that model is specifically called out in the SHB as being legal. Be a good clarification for PWB on the wire to make sure. I don't have one but I'd like one. Legal as long as 4” barrel or less. Most I have seen have them 4 1/4” barrel. I’m sure many have been used in side matches with illegal barrel. personally I would not use a lightning in a side match, even if barrel was short enough. The action is just too delicate. You go yanking that trigger 5 times in <1.5 seconds and it won’t last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hoss said: Legal as long as 4” barrel or less. Most I have seen have them 4 1/4” barrel. I’m sure many have been used in side matches with illegal barrel. personally I would not use a lightning in a side match, even if barrel was short enough. The action is just too delicate. You go yanking that trigger 5 times in <1.5 seconds and it won’t last long! I have to wonder why they would call them out specifically as legal if they still had to meet all the stipulations as other manufacturers. There has to be a reason. @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495Lprobably knows right off the top of his head why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: I have to wonder why they would call them out specifically as legal if they still had to meet all the stipulations as other manufacturers. There has to be a reason. @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495Lprobably knows right off the top of his head why. Will wait for PWB to chime in. and Ronnie, sorry your post got highjacked, but at least you got a lot of bumps out of it! looks like a fine pistol, I hope you find a buyer. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 Posted 17 DEC 2018: The issue of the legality of the COLT MODEL 1877 DA revolver (in all 3 chamberings) for pocket pistol sidematch use has been resolved by a majority vote of the SASS Range Operations Committee (ROC). The consensus is that models with a <4" barrel are SASS-LEGAL "Pocket Pistols" NOTE: This ruling does NOT apply to the following revolvers: The Cimarron "New Lightning" (a reduced size Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Cimarron "New Thunderer" (a full-sized Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Colt Model 1878 (a large-frame DA revolver) ...all of which are precluded under current rules due to frame design and/or size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted 17 DEC 2018: The issue of the legality of the COLT MODEL 1877 DA revolver (in all 3 chamberings) for pocket pistol sidematch use has been resolved by a majority vote of the SASS Range Operations Committee (ROC). The consensus is that models with a <4" barrel are SASS-LEGAL "Pocket Pistols" NOTE: This ruling does NOT apply to the following revolvers: The Cimarron "New Lightning" (a reduced size Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Cimarron "New Thunderer" (a full-sized Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Colt Model 1878 (a large-frame DA revolver) ...all of which are precluded under current rules due to frame design and/or size.
Tennessee williams Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Posted 17 DEC 2018: The issue of the legality of the COLT MODEL 1877 DA revolver (in all 3 chamberings) for pocket pistol sidematch use has been resolved by a majority vote of the SASS Range Operations Committee (ROC). The consensus is that models with a <4" barrel are SASS-LEGAL "Pocket Pistols" NOTE: This ruling does NOT apply to the following revolvers: The Cimarron "New Lightning" (a reduced size Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Cimarron "New Thunderer" (a full-sized Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Colt Model 1878 (a large-frame DA revolver) ...all of which are precluded under current rules due to frame design and/or size. Thanks PWB! Knew there had to be a reason for calling them out specifically. I'll be on the lookout for one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 3 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Posted 17 DEC 2018: The issue of the legality of the COLT MODEL 1877 DA revolver (in all 3 chamberings) for pocket pistol sidematch use has been resolved by a majority vote of the SASS Range Operations Committee (ROC). The consensus is that models with a <4" barrel are SASS-LEGAL "Pocket Pistols" NOTE: This ruling does NOT apply to the following revolvers: The Cimarron "New Lightning" (a reduced size Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Cimarron "New Thunderer" (a full-sized Model "P" with the 1877-style grip/frame) The Colt Model 1878 (a large-frame DA revolver) ...all of which are precluded under current rules due to frame design and/or size. Good info, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanigan Flats Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 I wish someone would buy this gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Skinner Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Have you slugged the barrel? I’d be interested but 38 Short covers a lot of territory with bores of .357, .361 and .375. There is a 38 S&W, sometimes called 38 S&W Short and 38 Short Colt. The Colt was originally .375 bore that shot a heeled bullet and later loaded with inside lubed bullet of .358 diameter which was the parent of the 38 Long Colt and 38 S&W Special. I think I’m correct on this, others more knowledgeable might chime in and correct me if wrong. Driftwood you out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoot Gibson Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, for the S&W .38 Double Action, this revolver was only chambered in 38 S&W (.360ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Miller Posted June 28, 2022 Author Share Posted June 28, 2022 Thanks for all the info. I'm learning a lot about this pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Bull Skinner said: Have you slugged the barrel? I’d be interested but 38 Short covers a lot of territory with bores of .357, .361 and .375. There is a 38 S&W, sometimes called 38 S&W Short and 38 Short Colt. The Colt was originally .375 bore that shot a heeled bullet and later loaded with inside lubed bullet of .358 diameter which was the parent of the 38 Long Colt and 38 S&W Special. I think I’m correct on this, others more knowledgeable might chime in and correct me if wrong. The guns were chambered for the .38 S&W, not the .38 S&W Long and not the .38 S&W Special (.38 special), nor the .38 Short Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Id bet my hat it’s 38SW. FWIW, I load all my 38SW with my 105 grn .357 bullets. They may rattle a bit going down the tube but at PP distances they are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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