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Saw a Marlin 19 for sale...first thought was "Ahhhh, the Ford Pinto of of exposed hammer pump shotguns."

 

Seriously, should a 19 ever be something worth buying (not that I'm buying anything else for 2 weeks) owing to the possible safety issues?

 

One last thought...remember Marvin the Martian?  I envision a CGI version CAS of him know as Marlin the Martian.

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Not legal for SASS competition use.

 

Quote

The only slide action shotgun allowed is the Model 1897 Winchester shotgun, whether original or replica.

SHB p.38

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Not legal for CAS, BUT, but I know of one old guy who has shot one in CAS since the dinosaurs roamed the land, and he's aware of the gun's reputation & CAS legality, he shoots just the one local match, once a month, and nowhere else, so the club allows it. :mellow:

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Didn't even Marlin say to NEVER shoot these old beasts?

 

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The safety issues with the Marlin 98 family can be addressed.   There are articles on line that say how to check them.

Not legal for SASS, but they are really cool looking guns.   I wish Marlin, or somebody would reproduce them while addressing the concerns.

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2 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Not legal for CAS, BUT, but I know of one old guy who has shot one in CAS since the dinosaurs roamed the land, and he's aware of the gun's reputation & CAS legality, he shoots just the one local match, once a month, and nowhere else, so the club allows it. :mellow:

That is a shame. To allow such practice is to disregard safety practices and should be stopped.

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I often use my Model 24 at my clubs monthlys, a very slick sg. With attention to the small springs and multiple safeties the Marlin hammer sg is safe imo.  I’ve seen a 2nd gen Colt SAA blow due to a handload and was at a match where a winchester repro Henry magazine detonated rounds injuring the shooter. Last time I looked reloaded ammo and Henry style rifles were still legal. Marlin lawyered up when sass shooters drug these antiques out of their attics and closets. After many years sass lawyered up. No big deal, no hard feelings. Liability lawyers run the show. 

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So the posts are trending towards a consensus of "lawyers determine what is a safe firearm, not engineers and gunsmiths" it seems.

 

Oh, before I forget, thank you to the poster that whipped out the rule book to answer the question never asked.

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21 minutes ago, Joeronimo Caffiend said:

So the posts are trending towards a consensus of "lawyers determine what is a safe firearm, not engineers and gunsmiths" it seems.

 

Oh, before I forget, thank you to the poster that whipped out the rule book to answer the question never asked.

That "poster" was the SASS representative that works pretty tirelessly to provide CORRECT answers and APPROPRIATE direction regarding SASS to folks posting and asking questions on the SASS wire.

 

If you'd like to visit the Marlin forum - perhaps you might find their guidance more to your liking.

 

But when utilizing a forum dedicated to a certain activity - you should expect the input to apply to the activity. 

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Shot a Model 19G until the day SASS decided to disallow them.  There was MUCH MUCH more to this episode than most are willing to admit or acknowledge.

 

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22 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

That "poster" was the SASS representative that works pretty tirelessly to provide CORRECT answers and APPROPRIATE direction regarding SASS to folks posting and asking questions on the SASS wire.

 

If you'd like to visit the Marlin forum - perhaps you might find their guidance more to your liking.

 

But when utilizing a forum dedicated to a certain activity - you should expect the input to apply to the activity. 

 

The "activity" was safety, the "input" was rules; the output was nonlinear.  Also, how can a correct "answer" be given to a question never asked?

 

tl;dr:. Thank'ee Preacher, that was a mighty fine sermon.

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45 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Shot a Model 19G until the day SASS decided to disallow them.  There was MUCH MUCH more to this episode than most are willing to admit or acknowledge.

 

Tell us about the "Much" more. I'd love to hear about it since I was the Chairman of the ROC when it was removed from the Game. 

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22 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Tell us about the "Much" more. I'd love to hear about it since I was the Chairman of the ROC when it was removed from the Game. 

 

PM will be sent.  Been scolded before for my point of view on this matter.

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1 hour ago, Joeronimo Caffiend said:

 

The "activity" was safety, the "input" was rules; the output was nonlinear.  Also, how can a correct "answer" be given to a question never asked?

 

tl;dr:. Thank'ee Preacher, that was a mighty fine sermon.

Tis a shame - sometimes when leading a horse to water; both ends of the horse arrive.

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1 hour ago, Joeronimo Caffiend said:

The "activity" was safety, the "input" was rules; the output was nonlinear.  Also, how can a correct "answer" be given to a question never asked?

 

Quote

 

To assist in defining inappropriate content, ask yourself the following questions when making a post:

- Is this message SASS-related? (with the exception of the Saloon forum)
...

 

SASS Wire Forum Guidelines

 

Relocating to appropriate forum... & yer welcome.

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Heh, guess I've sounded as a bit of a SASShole the past post or two.....soz to anyone who got hurt feels; truly.

 

Anyhow, what are the main points of failure I'm looking for on these old 19s?

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They’ve got small flat steel springs on the various safeties, inertia block etc that are somewhat delicate but while I’ve bought guns with them missing I’ve never actually broken one. If kept clean and oiled they are ok. If Ruger had built these shotguns there would be ss coiled spings instead. Don’t dryfire these mty as it’s hard on the firing pins, use dummy shells. The Model 24 and 42 are the best imo with the better takedown. 

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Everything I have read about the Marlin 98 has led me to believe that there are serious safety concerns about the gun.   I also believe that these concerns can be dealt with to the point where some of these guns can safely be fired.   That being said, I think that SASS has a valid point in not allowing them.  

 

What I disagree with is the disallowing of the Burgess, Spencer, Winchester 93 and the modern made 93\97.   Especially the last one.   

But these are the rules.    I do think that these old timey pumps are interesting guns and worth talking about.  But that is with the proviso that they are not a part of our game.

I do wish though that the 97 is the only allowed pump rule would be open to being revisited.  It we didn't have such a rigid prohibition, we might see modern replicas of the Burgess or even the Spencer come along.  Or even a Marlin that corrects the problems.

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The safety concerns were directed to the original Marlin 1898 model which did have a serious flaw in design that resulted in injuries.

 

Marlin corrected that flaw with the next version and subsequent models, and if I recall correctly, recalled the 1898.

 

Just as there are checks one should do with the Winchester 1897 and it’s replicas, (make sure the shell guide, “flag” is working correctly, etc...) there are checks for the Marlin pump guns.

 

The Marlin exposed hammer shotguns, like the Model 19, the Model 28, Model 49, and Model 42 were designed and built to accommodate the modern smokeless ammunition of the time, the same as the Winchester ‘97 and Model 12!  This includes the “high brass” goose and game loads of the day. Those loads far exceed the pressures of the loads commonly used in CAS competition.

 

 I have witnessed catastrophic failures in the ‘97 and in numerous SxSs over the years. ANY gun that isn’t checked and maintained is subject to such failures!!! Know your guns and verify their condition often! 

 

I’d shoot any of my Marlins in competition today if it was allowed, with confidence!! I frequently shoot them at the range.

 

STILL!!!! The rules are the rules!!

Edited by Blackwater 53393
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5 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

 

I’d shoot any of my Marlins today if it was allowed, with confidence!!

 

 

I agree 100%, luckily I still can. 

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