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Buckshot Bob

Knock down power

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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Is it possible the mag primers could also save you a squib?  Just askin. 

 

DDD,

YES.   Some powders are temperature sensitive, more than others.

With low powder charges and cold weather, some of the powders used in Cowboy loads 

give erratic burning (ignition) and therefore, a squib could occur.

 

A magnum primer gives a longer flash time, and therefore a better chance of complete ignition

of the powder.

 

..........Widder

 

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23 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

DDD,

YES.   Some powders are temperature sensitive, more than others.

With low powder charges and cold weather, some of the powders used in Cowboy loads 

give erratic burning (ignition) and therefore, a squib could occur.

 

A magnum primer gives a longer flash time, and therefore a better chance of complete ignition

of the powder.

 

..........Widder

 

I was also curious if the magnum primers have enough gas expansion to clear a pistol bullet when no other powder is present, as in a powder drop failure.  Has anybody had that kind of  experience?   I'm sure it all depends on details like bullet diameter and alloy hardness, so what I guess I'm really asking is:

Does anybody know the difference in gas expansion between regular and magnum small pistol primers? 

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19 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I was also curious if the magnum primers have enough gas expansion to clear a pistol bullet when no other powder is present, as in a powder drop failure.  Has anybody had that kind of  experience? 

 

DDD,

that would depend upon barrel length and bullet weight.

I've never tested the results from my pistols, but I have some .32 Rugers with 3.5" barrels.

I would guess a 78 grain bullet would clear the muzzle, but a 100 grain might not.

ALSO, different results would be obvious if the bullets were .312,   .313,  or .314.

But like I stated, thats one thing I've not tested.

 

Other factors would be cylinder throat tightness and forcing cone size/degree, lead bullet or

jacketed, etc.....

 

EDIT:   I would also guess that a Small Magnum RIFLE Primer would push some bullets

out the muzzle more reliably than Small Magnum Pistol Primers.

But then you would have to concern yourself with hammer strength/firing pin

force on the primer.   I may be wrong, but I think the cup on the Rifle primers

are harder than Pistol primers.

Just a guess.

 

..........Widder

 

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2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

DDD,

that would depend upon barrel length and bullet weight.

I've never tested the results from my pistols, but I have some .32 Rugers with 3.5" barrels.

I would guess a 78 grain bullet would clear the muzzle, but a 100 grain might not.

ALSO, different results would be obvious if the bullets were .312,   .313,  or .314.

But like I stated, thats one thing I've not tested.

 

Other factors would be cylinder throat tightness and forcing cone size/degree, lead bullet or

jacketed, etc.....

 

..........Widder

 

That's about the same as my thinking.  I just wondered if there was a huge difference in the primers that would make the magnum ones more reliable, such that they would be a smarter purchase (in general terms).  I can't find any data on comparative gas expansion. 

Yesterday, I loaded a half dozen primer-only loads of each, went outside and fired them, just to see if they sound a lot different.  Subjectively, the magnums are  quite a bit louder.  So last night, I repeated the exercise in the dark.  At night there was a much brighter flash, from the magnums, I could see much more flash out the pistol barrel.  Maybe that answers my question about which I ought to be buying.  I'd still really like to see some data on expansion though. 

I guess I need to do my experiment in a barrel of water ( obviously kidding) 

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I have only been shooting 125 grain 38 Long Colt for a couple months, paired with a 45 Colt Marlin, and twice have had the opportunity to have been very successful with pistol knockdowns, especially cleaning a tree with no problems. Those are small and relatively light though. Had to giggle actually. However, if I had to bring up the artillery, I can go to 125 gr 38 Special. This thread prompts me to be ready to go to 158 grain in 38 Special, but I would expect more recoil that might throw me off.

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DDD,

You might consider starting a separate Thread on this topic.

There could me A LOT of pards who know about this and won't read any of this Thread.

 

..........Widder

 

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24 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

DDD,

You might consider starting a separate Thread on this topic.

There could me A LOT of pards who know about this and won't read any of this Thread.

 

..........Widder

 

I guess you mean the part about the primers.

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9 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Is it possible the mag primers could also save you a squib?  Just askin. 

 

As I stated earlier, I use magnum primers to ensure positive ignition of the powder in a cartridge.
 

So, from that perspective, my answer is, “Yes, I suppose it is possible..”. As in, “Anything is possible.”

 

However, if I thought I needed extra power... that is, “feet per second”... I would bump up the powder charge in my cartridges a few grains.  I wouldn’t exoect or count on any extra power boost from the primer.

 

Cat Brules

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50 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

DDD,

You might consider starting a separate Thread on this topic.

There could me A LOT of pards who know about this and won't read any of this Thread.

 

..........Widder

 

Let's try it! 

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11 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Is it possible the mag primers could also save you a squib?  Just askin. 

 

in the revolvers most definitely

 

i use them cause i got in the habit of buying them when standards were unavailable so have never switched back

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I would say the load would take down most knockdowns.  Every once in awhile you hear about a stubborn target.  Use the same load with a 147 or 158 and your set.  

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Hi again.

Here’s a related, but slightly different question:  

I’m putting my question in quotes, below:

 

”Why are (those who do) you shooting 158 grain or 147 grain slugs and a heavier powder charge when, from others’ experience (mine too), a lighter slug and powder charge will reliably knock down pistol knockdown targets?”

 

Have you had issues (such as?) with lighter loadings and knockdown targets?

 

Cat Brules

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cat Brules said:

Why are (those who do) you shooting 158 grain or 147 grain slugs and a heavier powder charge when, from others’ experience (mine too), a lighter slug and powder charge will reliably knock down pistol knockdown targets?”

 

I like to have some heavier bullets when I have to shoot an in-line plate rack ( 5 targets, each behind the others) Makes the front ones, usually larger, fall faster.

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I think the late, great Julian Hatcher covered this in his famous notebook, but I'm too tired to look it up.

Maybe tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

I think the late, great Julian Hatcher covered this in his famous notebook, but I'm too tired to look it up.

Maybe tomorrow.


ATTABOY!!!  :lol:

 

CB

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CB-yes my kids and I have all experienced a target that would not go down with a 125 gr.  Not often.  Has happened in championship matches.   Very, very seldom, but it happens.  If there is any doubt, I change to a 147.  If you get to know fellow shooters, they usually give you a report. I do not feel that much difference in the rifle, but there is a difference.  Shoot what works for you.  I shoot 147 at Winter Range this year.  Probably didn't need them, but they were there.

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8 hours ago, Kirk James said:

CB-yes my kids and I have all experienced a target that would not go down with a 125 gr.  Not often.  Has happened in championship matches.   Very, very seldom, but it happens.  If there is any doubt, I change to a 147.  If you get to know fellow shooters, they usually give you a report. I do not feel that much difference in the rifle, but there is a difference.  Shoot what works for you.  I shoot 147 at Winter Range this year.  Probably didn't need them, but they were there.

 

KJ.....

Thanks for relating that experience.  Intel does help.

As an anecdote, I have seen two or three of those in-line plate targets go down with one shot, not get hit and stay up, as YB related.  

 

CB

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5 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

 not get hit and stay up, as YB related.  

What I said was the plates will go down faster with a heavier bullet giving you a quicker shot at the next one. :D

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In years past, heavier knockdowns were a more common issue.  However, I ALWAYS use my 158's (which is my rifle ammo) for pistol knockdowns.  It's insurance and many Texas Star plates require it to come off cleanly.  I shoot gunfighter, so the heavier and faster loads do not slow me down at all.  If I was shooting traditional style, I might find it to be an issue.

 

Possum

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