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Branchwater Jack SASS #88854

WT RO Suggest?

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Setup:

 

5 static plates. Instructions are, starting on either end, double tap sweep the 5 targets starting on either end.

 

Shooter double taps R1, double taps R2, double taps R3, HITS R4 with the 7th round, jacks out 2 rounds and then HITS R5 with the 10th round.

 

As the TO, what do you suggest to the shooter do next in order to safely assist them through the course of fire while incurring the fewest penalties?

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Load 1 and shoot R5 to save 1 miss, anything else earns a P

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Just finish shooting. Since he only placed one on R4 and then his next hit was on R5 the shooter has already earned a P. He can't reload and maintain the sequence so it's just a matter of how many misses he has at the end.

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12 minutes ago, Palmetto Traveler said:

Just finish shooting. Since he only placed one on R4 and then his next hit was on R5 the shooter has already earned a P. He can't reload and maintain the sequence so it's just a matter of how many misses he has at the end.

The act of jacking a round would be considered as "Engaging" R4. 

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Quote

Engaged – attempting to fire a round at the target

.  SHB - Glossary of Terms

 

 Levering the rifle (ejecting a round) is considered "engaging" under this definition as it applies to the above listed options.  

Source

 

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If he's in my category, load 3, shoot 2, put the rifle down and go to the next gun.  

 

Come on folks, it's a joke.

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7 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

.  SHB - Glossary of Terms

 

 Levering the rifle (ejecting a round) is considered "engaging" under this definition as it applies to the above listed options.  

Source

 

My advice to the shooter would have been in the future to continue where he left off in the sequence (second hit on target #4) after jacking out rounds, then avoid misses on #5 by reloading at the end of the string and double tapping #5.   So by following my advice, would shooter then incur a "P" for "ENGAGING" target #4 four times (first hit +2 jacked/engaged rds+ 2nd hit)?  just asking.  

Shooting it the way he/she did, I don't see how they could avoid misses by reloading.   When they returned to target 4, after placing a round on target 5, they would earn a P.  

Pretty confusing.  

I believe I've seen a number of shooters awarded Ps, in the past, for doing exactly as the subject shooter did in the OP-- failing to follow stage instructions to dt all of the targets.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

My advice to the shooter would have been in the future to continue where he left off in the sequence (second hit on target #4) after jacking out rounds, then avoid misses on #5 by reloading at the end of the string and double tapping #5.   So by following my advice, would shooter then incur a "P" for "ENGAGING" target #4 four times (1 hit +2 jacked/engaged rds+ 1 hit)?  just asking.

NO...any "P" would be for HITTING targets "out of order)

  

Shooting it the way he/she did, I don't see how they could avoid misses by reloading.   When they returned to target 4, after placing a round on target 5, they would earn a P.  

The advice re making up a miss for one of the jacked out rounds is to put a 2nd round on target T5.
If the shooter went back to T4, that would be a "P"

 

Pretty confusing.  

(see below)

 

Quote

 

Shooter’s Choice – Replacing Ejected / Defective Rounds

A shooter who ejects a rifle round in the middle of a shooting string has FOUR choices:

1) Re-engage same target; then reload at the end of the string for the last target = No Penalty  

2) Re-engage same target w/NO reload = Miss for the ejected (unfired) round  

3) Skip to next target w/NO reload = Miss  

4) Skip to next target w/reload/return to re-engage skipped target = Procedural  

 

SOURCE

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Take the two misses and safely stage the rifle and continue with the stage.

 

>90% of shooters cannot load one round in the rifle in less than 5 seconds. (I've timed a lot of shooters)

 

One miss has already been earned and can't be un-done, and as PW showed, any action other than loading one and putting round on R5 will earn a "P".

 

Doesn't make any since to do anything but continue, unless you know you can load the extra round in less than 5 seconds, you will only increase the penalties, and having earned at least one miss, there goes the clean match.

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Many just don't understand that a jacked out round creates a unique situation for that round. It can be considered an engagement  or it can be reloaded and fired as if it wasn't an engagement. Some think you must reload a jacked out round or incur a failure to engage penalty but the jacking of that round constitutes an engagement if the shooter decides not to reload. Reloading and shooting the correct order/target negates the earlier engagement scenario. Shooters choice on which route he/she wants to go.

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What MR. Howlin said. Most shooters can not load one in less than 5 seconds

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Failure to engage – willfully or intentionally disregarding the stage instructions in order to obtain a competitive advantage and is not simply because a competitor “makes a mistake.”  Applies only to non-shooting situations such as refusing to rope a steer, throw a stick of dynamite, or otherwise make an attempt to complete any other nonshooting procedure written within the stage instructions. 

54 minutes ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

Many just don't understand that a jacked out round creates a unique situation for that round. It can be considered an engagement  or it can be reloaded and fired as if it wasn't an engagement. Some think you must reload a jacked out round or incur a failure to engage penalty but the jacking of that round constitutes an engagement if the shooter decides not to reload. Reloading and shooting the correct order/target negates the earlier engagement scenario. Shooters choice on which route he/she wants to go.

 

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3 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Failure to engage – willfully or intentionally disregarding the stage instructions in order to obtain a competitive advantage and is not simply because a competitor “makes a mistake.”  Applies only to non-shooting situations such as refusing to rope a steer, throw a stick of dynamite, or otherwise make an attempt to complete any other nonshooting procedure written within the stage instructions. 

 

Completely correct of course but I have heard arguments over its use in shooting circumstances many times.

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If the shooter wants a clean match, then shoot the forth target with the last round, then load 2 rounds and shoot R5. Loading 2 rounds in under 10 sec is not hard, and IMO MOST folks can  do it if they just DO IT. The reason that it takes some folks so long to load a round on the clock is because they just can not decide to do it! They fiddle fart around and by the time they decide to load another round, they have already used up most of the 5 sec. 

 

sb

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14 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

.  SHB - Glossary of Terms

Shooter’s Choice – Replacing Ejected / Defective Rounds

A shooter who ejects a rifle round in the middle of a shooting string has FOUR choices:

1) Re-engage same target; then reload at the end of the string for the last target = No Penalty  

2) Re-engage same target w/NO reload = Miss for the ejected (unfired) round  

3) Skip to next target w/NO reload = Miss  

4) Skip to next target w/reload/return to re-engage skipped target = Procedural  

 

 

14 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 Levering the rifle (ejecting a round) is considered "engaging" under this definition as it applies to the above listed options.  

Source

 

 

Interesting that you can go to next target or reengage! I usually see people do option 1 or 2. Never 3.

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10 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

SOURCE

Thank you for your patience with me.  Your last response was clarifying and very helpful. 

/DDD

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