Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Sign in to follow this  
razorseal

Powder (smokeless and BP)

Recommended Posts

I made a big score at the last guhshow I went to.  A vendor had a big inventory of reloading supplies.  I spotted two bags of new Starlin 38WCF brass, 100 to the bag marked $18/ea.  They were new but we old just the same. They had small tarnish spots on them.   I checked Grafs and they were about $29/100 then add almost 10% sales tax.  I went back and offered $30 for both.  He returned with $34. That's just about half price!

 

It only cost us driving 2.5 hours one way, $20 to get in, and most of the day. -_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

I made a big score at the last guhshow I went to.  A vendor had a big inventory of reloading supplies.  I spotted two bags of new Starlin 38WCF brass, 100 to the bag marked $18/ea.  They were new but we old just the same. They had small tarnish spots on them.   I checked Grafs and they were about $29/100 then add almost 10% sales tax.  I went back and offered $30 for both.  He returned with $34. That's just about half price!

 

It only cost us driving 2.5 hours one way, $20 to get in, and most of the day. -_-

 

I know right? lol

 

I do sometimes enjoy walking around and looking at stuff in the gun shows but I finally stopped going every year. Same basic "dealers" selling the same basic stuff. I have scored on a few items as well as purchasing a Cobra Derringer in 38 spl once, but noting related to the 44-40 stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rasorseal:, here are links to some online reloading data.  You can find 44-40 data in them:

Hodgdon

Alliant

Accurate

 

I load 44 mags for Wild Bunch with Unique but have some Trail Boss and W231 on hand that I would use if needed.  These powders would work for 44-40 though there are others that will perform as well.  I use published data because I've seen some unreliable load data from individuals.

 

I've never found cast bullets lubed for black powder at local guns shows.  The cast bullets I've seen were junk cast by locals who lacked quality control.  You can try loading for the smokey categories of SASS using APP or Triple Seven with bullets lubed for smokeless powder.  Just load so the base of the bullet barely touches the powder charge.

 

There are bullet casters who sell bullets with free shipping if you buy enough or will ship in a USPS flat rate box ($14).  I buy from casters who deliver to matches I attend.  I plan to buy about 10,000 bullets from a caster at EOT in June.  Ask at a local CAS match and you may be able to find a caster who delivers in your area too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

YES, better question is....Is all Black Powder alike? The answer is no!

FFFFFg - I forget, maybe it doesn't even exist
FFFFg is used in the flash pan of muskets.

FFFg is typically used in small calibers and mid range rifle calibers like the 44-40

FFg is typically used in rifle calibers in both rifle and revolver as well as the 45 Colt

Fg is typically used in cannons

Quality is key but a waist of money for CAS. I used to get "Skirmish" powder which is what I call floor sweepings. Skirmish is used by re-enactors and I am pretty sure I posted this somewhere already. It is the cheapest BP out there and it goes ding ding every time.  https://powderinc.com/black-powder.

 

Keep a milk jug with water in it. After you shoot your stage, dump the empties in the jug of water. Clean when you get home.


 

Surprised at the prices, Goex runs about 20-23 $ at LGSs around here. $31 seems high even w/ sh & hzmt. Or am I behind the times. Haven't ordered from Graf's in a while but theirs was like $16 plus $10 sh on whole order. Sometimes they offer free hzmt. YMMV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Surprised at the prices, Goex runs about 20-23 $ at LGSs around here. $31 seems high even w/ sh & hzmt. Or am I behind the times. Haven't ordered from Graf's in a while but theirs was like $16 plus $10 sh on whole order. Sometimes they offer free hzmt. YMMV

 

Yeah, all seem high but hoped that would give him a good idea of what was out there as far as selection. Always purchased my powder in group buys locally.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

Razorseal,

 

You come on here asking these folks for advice, then when they give it to you, you question their experiences or basically mock their replies with a tad bit of doubtful sarcasm. If you doubt them, it is better to just keep it to yourself.

 

I have seen very little 44-40 handloading components at gunshows in the past 20 years, doesn't mean they don't have them....just means good luck. What I have seen is at a premium price. I have never ever purchased anything 44-40 from a gun show, and black powder bullets are non existent for me......that is what I have experienced down in the south east. May be different in your location.

If you want black powder bullets, that is bullets with black powder lube, I suggest purchasing from folks on this forum that cast them like Slim at http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/  There is a Big Button on his page that says BIG LUBES. The 44-40 "Toggle" looks to be the 43-215C and then there is the "traditional" Lyman 427098. For cas, you can't beat the 44 Mav.

For Smokeless bullets, try Desperado Cowboy Bullets and get some "Magma" design bullets. http://cowboybullets.com/44-cal-200-grain_p_21.html

 

These folks on here are trying to help save you a lot of trouble.

 

I've appreciated all your help so far (you've been very helpful) and I appreciate everyone else's help. At the end of the day, we're all folks talking about a hobby. 

 

I'm sarcastic. That's just me. I'm getting in for free to the gun show and it is about 2 miles from my house (and a large one). I don't explain every single detail here. If I find what I'm looking for, so be it. If not then I'll order online like most folks said in one of my other posts... Our gunshow sells plenty of powder too. This is where I buy my H4350 from... That's why I made this post. 

 

You say I come asking for advice and I question their experiences, and I come telling you I've been reloading for a decade, but not this kind of ammo and asking questions like why bullets get lubed and how crimping works. (which you've actually explained to me) 

 

I'm not here to argue with someone like you who has been tremendously helpful and answered all my basic questions. I appreciate your help and your experience in this field. I'll still continue asking my questions. I just might not appreciate the go read a reloading manual or something to affect, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Rasorseal:, here are links to some online reloading data.  You can find 44-40 data in them:

Hodgdon

Alliant

Accurate

 

I load 44 mags for Wild Bunch with Unique but have some Trail Boss and W231 on hand that I would use if needed.  These powders would work for 44-40 though there are others that will perform as well.  I use published data because I've seen some unreliable load data from individuals.

 

I've never found cast bullets lubed for black powder at local guns shows.  The cast bullets I've seen were junk cast by locals who lacked quality control.  You can try loading for the smokey categories of SASS using APP or Triple Seven with bullets lubed for smokeless powder.  Just load so the base of the bullet barely touches the powder charge.

 

There are bullet casters who sell bullets with free shipping if you buy enough or will ship in a USPS flat rate box ($14).  I buy from casters who deliver to matches I attend.  I plan to buy about 10,000 bullets from a caster at EOT in June.  Ask at a local CAS match and you may be able to find a caster who delivers in your area too.

 

Phew! 10,000 bullets! 

 

Thanks brother. I appreciate your response. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, razorseal said:

I just might not appreciate the go read a reloading manual or something to affect, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

 

I hate it when folks say that to other folks. Actually there is not that much information out there for the 44-40 in MODERN handloading manuals. There are several selections of powder but only three bullets of which one is discontinued, one is the 427666 and the 427098. 

 

However, manuals and books are important for several reasons. One is to learn the "pressures" related to the loads given, pressures for size bullet used, and to even learn a little history. 

 

You would not believe the grief I have received over the years by loading the 44-40 "hot" as did Winchester factory loads for the Winchester 92' and Marlin 1894 types. This is nothing new, been around for many years....especially since the 1930's.  Sharp once wrote in his 1937 handloading manual...
 
" The 44-40 is capable of excellent performance when loaded properly for handgun use. If, however, one endeavors to combine loading for both handgun and rifle in this caliber, he is destined to meet with only mediocre success. As in all other dual-purpose cartridges, the factory loads are only a compromise at best. Smokeless-powder loading for handguns requires a much more rapid-burning type than loading for rifle use, as the short barrel must burn all the powder if satisfactory results are to be achieved. In addition, rifle cartridges can be loaded to a pressure of about 30,000 pounds in this caliber, whereas the same load in a revolver would be more or less disastrous."  Thus the reason for modern mediocre factory loads using pistol powders.
 
I do load my rifle powder cartridges in my revolvers but like Sharpe explained, velocity is compromised and results are notabley slower than when using pistol powders. By the same token, using pistol powders in rifles creates less velocities at greater pressures than when using the appropriate rifle powders..
 
He goes on to continue and explains that a wide range of bullets are available but one must slug his barrel and measure the slug carefully.

I know this is CAS and not a hunting forum but it is really important to understand what and why we do what we do......especially with the multifaceted 44-40!


A great source of information is from GunsMagazine November 2003, page 61 from Taffin.

 

Please not below the writing in the red and yellow boxes.  Also note that the 200gr Lyman "Cowboy" is the 427666 and the Oregon Trail 200gr is cast from commercial  molds from Magma Engineering. This is where I get the name 44-40 "Magma" bullets.

 

86712727_2547759992218239_253078637224394752_n.jpg

86728394_624035495088841_49930927551283200_n.jpg

Edited by Savvy Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" The 44-40 is capable of excellent performance when loaded properly for handgun use. If, however, one endeavors to combine loading for both handgun and rifle in this caliber, he is destined to meet with only mediocre success. As in all other dual-purpose cartridges, the factory loads are only a compromise at best. Smokeless-powder loading for handguns requires a much more rapid-burning type than loading for rifle use, as the short barrel must burn all the powder if satisfactory results are to be achieved. In addition, rifle cartridges can be loaded to a pressure of about 30,000 pounds in this caliber, whereas the same load in a revolver would be more or less disastrous." 

 

I also wanted to comment, did any English scholars out there  notice the content that this was written? Although I am no scholar, this is written in a way that leads one to believe  he is explaining that the 44-40 rifle loading has always been the lead role during that time-frame and that people were having issues with loading the revolvers, 100% reverse than is done today. Today, it is the revolver that is the lead role with pistol powders and the rifle loads that have mediocre success.

 

 

Hypothetically, lets change the wording...

" The 44-40 rifle is capable of excellent performance when loaded properly for rifle use. If, however, one endeavors to combine loading for both handgun and rifle in this caliber, he is destined to meet with only mediocre success. As in all other dual-purpose cartridges, the factory loads are only a compromise at best. Smokeless-powder loading for rifles requires a bit slower-burning type than faster-burning loading for revolver use, as the longer barrel allows more time for the slower burning rifle powders to burn enough powder if satisfactory lower chamber pressure results and original 1,300fps or greater [1,500fps] velocities are to be achieved. In addition, revolver cartridges can be loaded to a pressure of only about 11,000 psi in this caliber, whereas the same load in a rifle can be more or less favorably closer to 14,000psi for weaker action rifles and closer to 18,000 psi. for stronger action rifles." 

Edited by Savvy Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

" The 44-40 is capable of excellent performance when loaded properly for handgun use. If, however, one endeavors to combine loading for both handgun and rifle in this caliber, he is destined to meet with only mediocre success. As in all other dual-purpose cartridges, the factory loads are only a compromise at best. Smokeless-powder loading for handguns requires a much more rapid-burning type than loading for rifle use, as the short barrel must burn all the powder if satisfactory results are to be achieved. In addition, rifle cartridges can be loaded to a pressure of about 30,000 pounds in this caliber, whereas the same load in a revolver would be more or less disastrous."  Thus the reason for modern mediocre factory loads using pistol powders.

 
I do load my rifle powder cartridges in my revolvers but like Sharpe explained, velocity is compromised and results are notabley slower than when using pistol powders. By the same token, using pistol powders in rifles creates less velocities at greater pressures than when using the appropriate rifle powders..
 
He goes on to continue and explains that a wide range of bullets are available but one must slug his barrel and measure the slug carefully.

I know this is CAS and not a hunting forum but it is really important to understand what and why we do what we do......especially with the multifaceted 44-40!


A great source of information is from GunsMagazine November 2003, page 61 from Taffin.

 

 

 

 

 

Phew, a lot of info here! Def something to think about. It's not something I ever considered, but makes complete sense.

 

There is a software called "Quickload" if you've ever heard of it. I have an older version... but what you do is, you select the caliber, bullet, powder type and barrel legnth and it will give you ballpark figure of your load's speed and pressure. It's fairly accurate to give you and "idea". I'll check to see what kind of numbers certain powders create. I might have to update it though because mine is about 8 years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, razorseal said:

There is a software called "Quickload" if you've ever heard of it. I have an older version


Yes, I have that program and it is not very accurate for the 44-40. Since there can not be a conversion forumula, we can not compare those psi results to those CUP or "PSI" results from our handloading manuals. The results are in psi but using the (CIP) method, not the piezio method (PSI)

 

The two modern standardized test methodologies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_arms_ammunition_pressure_testing

CIP - is the psi result using the Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms testing method. Testing "sensor" is placed in front of the cartridge.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_internationale_permanente_pour_l’épreuve_des_armes_à_feu_portatives

 

PSI - is the psi result from what is commonly refereed to as the Piezoelectric method. Testing "sensor" is placed on top of the cartridge.

https://www.pcb.com/sensors-for-test-measurement/pressure-transducers/ballistic

CUP - is the psi result from using the Copper of Units of Measure method.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure

Although "psi" is always the end result, we typically see the "abbreviation" used defined by the method used such as 11,000psi (Piezo MAX), 13,000psi (CUP MAX) and 15,954 (CIP MAX) for the 44-40. There is no correlation...magic formula...to convert from one to another. The Pressures recorded are all in PSI but using different methods.

Much handloading data has been simply "forwarded" through the years rather than actually being tested again and again and again for the 44-40. Hercules 1995 dated data using a 240gr lead bullet and Reloder 7 shows the results as 12,100 CUP while updated Alliant 2005 data shows 12,100 psi but also notes..and I quote...."chamber pressures in copper units". This is where folks can get confused or mis-lead. I see this a lot, especially on the Hodgdon handload data website in regards to the 44-40 data.

 



 

86278075_124546262272731_4309675965555933184_n.jpg

Edited by Savvy Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, 

 

No 44-40 colt clone. Plenty of actual colt 44-40s for alot of money. I saw one uberti 44-40 with a very long barrel for 650.

 

I found the unique powder for 30 bucks (1lb), 1000 winchester large pistol primers for 30 and got me a ruger wrangler for $185 (talked him down). Also got in for free... 

 

See, wasn't that bad after all. Lol

 

I'll get the cimarron saa online for about 430.

Edited by razorseal
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:


Yes, I have that program and it is not very accurate for the 44-40. Since there can not be a conversion forumula, we can not compare those psi results to those CUP or "PSI" results from our handloading manuals. The results are in psi but using the (CIP) method, not the piezio method (PSI)

 

The two modern standardized test methodologies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_arms_ammunition_pressure_testing

CIP - is the psi result using the Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms testing method. Testing "sensor" is placed in front of the cartridge.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_internationale_permanente_pour_l’épreuve_des_armes_à_feu_portatives

 

PSI - is the psi result from what is commonly refereed to as the Piezoelectric method. Testing "sensor" is placed on top of the cartridge.

https://www.pcb.com/sensors-for-test-measurement/pressure-transducers/ballistic

CUP - is the psi result from using the Copper of Units of Measure method.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure

Although "psi" is always the end result, we typically see the "abbreviation" used defined by the method used such as 11,000psi (Piezo MAX), 13,000psi (CUP MAX) and 15,954 (CIP MAX) for the 44-40. There is no correlation...magic formula...to convert from one to another. The Pressures recorded are all in PSI but using different methods.

Much handloading data has been simply "forwarded" through the years rather than actually being tested again and again and again for the 44-40. Hercules 1995 dated data using a 240gr lead bullet and Reloder 7 shows the results as 12,100 CUP while updated Alliant 2005 data shows 12,100 psi but also notes..and I quote...."chamber pressures in copper units". This is where folks can get confused or mis-lead. I see this a lot, especially on the Hodgdon handload data website in regards to the 44-40 data.

 



 

86278075_124546262272731_4309675965555933184_n.jpg

I think you suggested 7 grains of unique with 200gr bullets in another thread of mine. I'll probably end up doing what you suggested. I got the unique and primers. Just need die set and I should be good to try some hand loads. I'm holding onto my starline brass I've been shooting 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, razorseal said:

Well, 

 

No 44-40 colt clone. Plenty of actual colt 44-40s for alot of money. I saw one uberti 44-40 with a very long barrel for 650.

 

I found the unique powder for 30 bucks (1lb), 1000 winchester large pistol primers for 30 and got me a ruger wrangler for $185 (talked him down). Also got in for free... 

 

See, wasn't that bad after all. Lol

 

I'll get the cimarron saa online for about 430.

 

Thats Awesome Razor, just awesome!!!

For CAS, these guys can give you some great Unique loads. About 7gr with a 200gr lead bullet should keep it well whiten limits and below 1,000fps in a rifle. Keeps the splatter down-range, and the pressures well under 8,000psi. Just keep an eye on every charge dropped!!!

An accidental triple charge of 6gr (18gr) will fill the case up enough to seat a 200gr Magma with a little compression....it will blow everything up with an ungodly amount of pressure. A double charge of 7gr (14gr) will hurt really bad so be extremely careful when you load this powder. Any time your mind in concentrating on setting up new loads etc, it's easy to get distracted. Just a 12gr load produces 21,786psi and is the highest charge I have ever tested and will probably hurt a revolver pretty good.

Edited by Savvy Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

Thats Awesome Razor, just awesome!!!

For CAS, these guys can give you some great Unique loads. About 7gr with a 200gr lead bullet should keep it well whiten limits and below 1,000fps in a rifle. Keeps the splatter down-range, and the pressures well under 8,000psi. Just keep an eye on every charge dropped!!!

 

Great! What were the dies you reccomended? I'm going on Midway to get those now... (and the .428 magma bullets right)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, razorseal said:

 

Great! What were the dies you reccomended? I'm going on Midway to get those now... (and the .428 magma bullets right)

 

If you can slug your barrel first, then get whatever is about .001 over the bore measurement but if not, try and stick to a .428 or less. For the ease of reloading get Lee dies, they work good with the .428 or less and RCBS Cowboy dies work better for .429/.430's. There may be some more great dies out there but those are probably the more reasonably priced and should work just fine.

If you are going to purchase from Midway, they only lists one .428" and I would suggest trying a few first before you buy any other design to make sure you like them. It is of the Magma design and a roll crimp will work fine or you can get the LFCD and work with it till you get the crimp you want if you dont like the roll crimp.

After you get the hang of loading these, then venture out from there, i.e. Big Lube, 427098, Lee bullets etc., you won't regret it.

Edited by Savvy Jack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the old thread I made, someone suggested a pair of 38 revolvers... got me thinking... Maybe pistols I get a 38. easier to buy ammo, and cheaper to reload. and it's a modern load incase I ever need to venture with it. hmmmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, razorseal said:

Looking at the old thread I made, someone suggested a pair of 38 revolvers... got me thinking... Maybe pistols I get a 38. easier to buy ammo, and cheaper to reload. and it's a modern load incase I ever need to venture with it. hmmmm...

 

38's are the easiest to load and more plentiful thus why they are so popular. But you will need small pistol primers me thinks

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, razorseal said:

Looking at the old thread I made, someone suggested a pair of 38 revolvers... got me thinking... Maybe pistols I get a 38. easier to buy ammo, and cheaper to reload. and it's a modern load incase I ever need to venture with it. hmmmm...

 

Good plan.

 

My rifles are all 44-40.

 

For revolvers I use .38 open tops or .357 Ruger Vaqueros when I'm not shooting cap & ball revolvers.

 

I have a few loading blocks with 10-38s and 10-44/45.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

Quoted in error 

Edited by razorseal
Accidental quote

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted both firearms to be same ammo. Honest reason was I was thinking like wild west days. Carry one load for both guns. But let's be honest, if I'm doing today today, I'm bringing my AR15/10 and my 45 acp. Lol

 

So let me see about a 38 saa. Also wanted to keep the "cowboy" era calibers... But no other good reason for it. 

 

I don't mind getting sp primers. 25 bucks for a thousand... It will last me a while

 

Lemme do some thinking. 

 

One thing that sucks is the day my local cas is is the day I always work... 

Edited by razorseal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, razorseal said:

One thing that sucks is the day my local cas is is the day I always work... 

 

Where is your local CAS club?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Where is your local CAS club?

 

OK Corral Outlaws in Okeechobee County, FL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, razorseal said:

 

OK Corral Outlaws in Okeechobee County, FL

Might be other clubs close by that shoot different weekends:

 

https://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=Florida

 

 

I'd suggest reaching out to @Waimea for bullets, he lives down that way; excellent cowboy bullet caster and all around great guy.

 

http://www.outlawbullets.com

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use my simple method: Pour powder down a drop tube and fill up my .45 brass, jam in one of my own cast bullets with deep grooves filled with F1/2g, crimp and that's it.  :P

 

Buffalo Arms is my supplier. I just knock on their warehouse door and they let me in and get the stuff I need.  :D

 

KISS  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Might be other clubs close by that shoot different weekends:

 

https://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=Florida

 

 

I'd suggest reaching out to @Waimea for bullets, he lives down that way; excellent cowboy bullet caster and all around great guy.

 

http://www.outlawbullets.com

 

 

There is another one about the same distance away. I can check them out.. They are in a urban area and I'm not too fond of that shooting center, but we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, razorseal said:

 

There is another one about the same distance away. I can check them out.. They are in a urban area and I'm not too fond of that shooting center, but we'll see.

Try Punta Gorda.

Hook up with Big Bore John.

He lives near Okee.

Told me yesterday he likes our club so much he doesn't mind the ride.

We have hot dogs and BYOB when we're done shooting too. Hard to beat.

 

Waimea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found loading 44-40 takes a bit more time than loading straight wall cartridges. That said loading with real bp preferably 2f I pretty much fill up the case and then seat bp lubed bullets. My issues came with loading smokeless powder....collapsed bullets. I have always crimped with a separate die usually the Lee factory crimp die. Works fine for me on everything but the 44-40. I got the Redding profile crimp die....problem solved. 

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

Sgt Hochbauer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I neglected to mention that I lube with SPG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

My issues came with loading smokeless powder....collapsed bullets. I have always crimped with a separate die usually the Lee factory crimp die. Works fine for me on everything but the 44-40. I got the Redding profile crimp die....problem solved. 

 

 

NICE!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Waimea said:

Try Punta Gorda.

Hook up with Big Bore John.

He lives near Okee.

Told me yesterday he likes our club so much he doesn't mind the ride.

We have hot dogs and BYOB when we're done shooting too. Hard to beat.

 

Waimea

 

Now that's a drive for me. Looking at close to 3 hours... Maybe I'll visit and bring the family. my wife has been curious about this sport as well.

Edited by razorseal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We love visitors.

We seem to be 3 hours from everywhere.:lol:

 

Keeps things at a normal pace though.

 

Waimea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Waimea said:

We seem to be 3 hours from everywhere.:lol:

ec1da343c45942ee1d47b667a5e6272f.jpg

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.