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Marshal Flint

45 Colt shooters bullet question

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4 hours ago, Judge Gardner said:

I don't get it how come shooter use 45 cartridges that are over 3 times power factor.

(Besides reliability) For the same reason some pards wear way more than the required 5 items in Classic Cowboy and shoot guns that are not competitive regarding speed: Fun, style, playing cowboy, fun and authenticity! Oh, did I mention FUN?! :D 

If it looks like shooting an airgun and you see bullets fly it just ain't cowboy... :P

 

Equanimous

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4 hours ago, Judge Gardner said:

I don't get it how come shooter use 45 cartridges that are over 3 times power factor.

 

Because .45 caliber guns don't sound like someone blowing a spitball out of a straw at the target. :P

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Howdy; Marlin rifles need heavy bullets , 250 grain others, not so much a 200 would be a good all round bullet. At least the spotters get a fair chance to see hear the hit. Flog that dead pony!

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I agree Four Time the Minimum Power factor is more Like It ......

None of those Wimpy loads like only 180 PF.

Smokier da Better .....

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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On 1/25/2020 at 10:10 PM, Griff said:

While I don't perxactly know what was edited... it was edited some 4 hours before your post... so, since I believe CC is a gentlemen of excellent judgement and character, I strongly suspect the original post contained that onerous adjective, "Long".  

 

As for what difference does it make, how does one find the SAAMI specs for a 45 "Long" Colt, when one doesn't exist... With the notable exception of Sierra, my reloading manuals only list a "45 Colt"... and since Sierra is originally from CA, we can safely assume they march to a "different" drummer... :ph34r:  (Just kidding, many of their products are excellent, if somewhat "different"... ;)

 

It was corrected by me the original poster because like many I have been duped to believe that such a cartridge existed :o  I have been properly educated and that will NEVER happen again ;)

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On 1/27/2020 at 8:06 AM, Judge Gardner said:

I don't get it how come shooter use 45 cartridges that are over 3 times power factor.

 

 

Because I like it.  If I cared for one moment about power factor and

recoil I'd find some Colt's in 32-20 and make mouse fart loads.

 

It's a game, that's how I like to play it.

 

YMMV,

 

Shadow Catcher

 

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I've always wondered why Colt didn't tweak their cartridge cases and make it so their 1883 Colt-Burgess Rifle and their 1884 Lightning Rifle could shoot the same caliber as their .45 Revolvers.  They would have had a ready market for those who already had the pistols in .45

 

But then, I've wondered about a lot of decisions Colt made through the years...

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20 hours ago, McCandless said:

I've always wondered why Colt didn't tweak their cartridge cases and make it so their 1883 Colt-Burgess Rifle and their 1884 Lightning Rifle could shoot the same caliber as their .45 Revolvers.  They would have had a ready market for those who already had the pistols in .45

 

But then, I've wondered about a lot of decisions Colt made through the years...

Rim size.  Case composition.  The revolver didn't require extraction, as they had that build-in manual ejector.  

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23 hours ago, ShadowCatcher said:

 

 

Because I like it.  If I cared for one moment about power factor and

recoil I'd find some Colt's in 32-20 and make mouse fart loads.

 

It's a game, that's how I like to play it.

 

YMMV,

 

Shadow Catcher

 

You hit it on the head ! Its a game play it the way you want, so many people think if you don't play it the way they do your doing it wrong!

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On 1/26/2020 at 8:14 AM, McCandless said:

I beg to differ.  The round we refer to as .45 Colt is the "Model of 1882 Ball Cartridge for Cal. .45 Revolver" and not the earlier Benet-primed .45 Colt Black Powder cartridge, (Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber .45)  developed by Colt and Union Metallic.

 

If you want to blame anybody for the .45 Long Colt nomenclature, blame the Army quartermasters who had to deal with the .45 Colt with 40gr of BP, the .45 Colt with 30gr of BP, those with 255gr bullets, those with 230gr bullets, the .45 Gov't round, (.45 Short Colt), and the .45 S&W.  (The .45 Gov't. round was a shorter version of the .45 Colt round, with 28gr of BP and a 230gr bullet, was briefly in production because not all Colt revolvers would chamber the .45 S&W rounds.)

As with any industry, the use of "jargon" became a type of shorthand designation.  They began referring to the longer "45 Colt" round as the "45 Long Colt" within Army circles to differentiate it from other rounds that could also be used in the Colt revolvers.   It must have come as a relief when in 1887 the Frankford Arsenal ended up dropping the longer round from production and solely manufactured the .45 S&W round, as the ".45 Calibre M1887 Military Ball Cartridge".

 

With the introduction of the Colt New Service revolver in .45 Colt, came the introduction of a new wider rimmed version, (M1909 Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber .45), that could not be loaded in the older Colt single-action revolvers.

 

That brings us to modern-day and the resurgence of use of the Colt Single Action Army and derivative models.  "45 Colt" is the official name used by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute, (SAAMI).   And, the designation is widely and correctly used.  But, the nickname, ".45 Long Colt" has a long and storied usage, also applied by Arms and Ammunition makers, and is now "a distinction without a difference".   With modern shooters now using variable lengths, such as the Cowboy .45 Special, the .45 S&W, cut-down cartridges of custom length, elongated cartridges, and more... the insistence of the .45 Colt vs .45 Long Colt argument has become the province of pedants. 

 

The term 45 Gov't refers to the .45-70-405 cartridge for use in the Trapdoor Springfields, at least commercially.  Not the 45 Colt.  And, it is the 45 Colt that wouldn't chamber in the shorter cylinders of the S&W M1875 that was approved as an alternate to the Colt M1873.   The replica revolvers of the 1875 use the Colt length cylinder.  

 

And for the entire length of time I've been shooting, and before, listening to Dad & his brothers, and the writing of several gun writers, I've always been told and read, the real reason for the terminology, is to differentiate between the 45 Colt and the 45ACP.  That may only have been conjecture on their part.  But, as returning GIs and some hearing other stories, or relating a single instance where a returning GI made this statement to a retailer,  this makes a modicum of sense.  

 

The M1909 round as issued for the 1909 Colt New Service, differed from the 45 Colt in it's rim diameter, not length.  The M1909 could not be used in the Colt SAA due to this rim diameter.  Nor, AFAIK was the M1909 ever commercially loaded. 

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The deafening blasts, heavy smoke, gouts of flame and massive recoil make shooting CAS incredible fun for me! If you enjoy the warthog loads of Holy Black in your revolvers, rifle and in your ten gauge 3-1/2" double or even in my double 8, you are OK in my book. :D   If I had to shoot smokeless in .32s and a 20 gauge, I would quit.  :(

 

I load my C. Sharps buffalo rifle with 1-1/2 Fg and a 650 grain Postell bullet. I love the challenge of designing loads that will hit the targets beyond the horizon. ;)  Yes, I have to have patience, because there's time to have a cup of coffee before the slug hits the target. The recoil is a part of the fun as is the waiting for the strike.

 

We all get our kicks from shooting but we sure as H--- are all different.  :)  I, for one, would not like to have it any other way!!!  :P

 

Let's all of us shoot CAS OUR OWN UNIQUE WAYS!!!  :wub:

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

The term 45 Gov't refers to the .45-70-405 cartridge for use in the Trapdoor Springfields, at least commercially.  Not the 45 Colt.  And, it is the 45 Colt that wouldn't chamber in the shorter cylinders of the S&W M1875 that was approved as an alternate to the Colt M1873.   The replica revolvers of the 1875 use the Colt length cylinder. 

 

There actually was a short-lived round called the .45 Colt Gov't that did not refer to the .45-70.  It was a .45 "Short Colt", different from the .45 S&W Schofield.  It had the same head stamp as the standard .45 Colt but had a 230gr bullet and 28-30gr of powder.  These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".

 

 

45sc1-1.jpg

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