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Uberti 1866 .45 Colt misfires--the story continues


Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L

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quick recap:  since it was new my brother's Uberti '66 in .45 Colt doesn't fire the first time you pull the trigger.  The hammer goes foreward and hits the bolt extension but he has to manunally cock the hammer to get the round to go 'bang'

 

Ammo is great in pistols and my Marlin 94.  Works in other firearms too.

 

newest effort was to try a different bullet shape thinking the RNFP was hanging up at the front of the chamber--nope

 

original .45 Colt conical bullet shape makes no difference.  Part 1 of this can be found here:  

 

. . . and now we pick up our story:  after shooting about 40 rounds today (all but two shots requiring the hand cocking of the hammer) the cross pin that holds the bolt to the bolt exentsion broke.  

 

found that the two holes at the rear of the bolt don't line up--you can put a replacement pin in from each side but can't get it to line up with other side.  We can always redrill holes on drill press to get the pin in BUT

 

still not sure what is causing misfires.  

 

He is now checking gun broker for a Marlin as he is pretty much done with the Uberti

 

So, does anyone have a final thoughts on his Uberti? 

 

Could the angled pin somehow robbed some of the force of the hammer?  It's been cleaned to inch of its life and well lubed.  Brass is all wet tumbled so it's factory new in apparence and very clean.  has tried two new hammer springs.

 

when I left him he was seriously considering using it to stake up a tomato plant.

 

  

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Your problem sounds similar to the one I had when I first got my 66, an early one from Navy Arms.

 

Occasionally, you'd pull the trigger and the cartridge would not go bang.  When I brought it home, I compared it to my Uberti made Henry, and I noticed that hammer on the 66 was falling noticeably slower on the 66 than it was on the Henry.   Slower fall means weaker hit.

 

Question:  Has your 66 had any kind of an action job?

 

My 66 clearly had been the recipient of one.  In addition to the much slower falling hammer, which I assume was due to a lighter hammer sprint, the level safety had been removed.  The action was very slick.  

 

I took it to Happy Trails and said, "Can you restore this to factory specs?" and told him about the slow falling hammer and missing safety.    He did as I asked.  The hammer now falls just as fast as the Henry, the lever safety is back, and it goes BANG every time you pull the trigger.    The action is still very smooth, but just slightly stiffer than it was.   (But still slicker than my all stock and original Winchester 73.)

 

So, to revisit my question; has your gun had an action job.   Sometimes they can be overdone.

 

 

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thanks for reply

 

gun is stock other than the wear and tear from shooting it 5 years.  

 

think my brother is at the point of 'not throwing good $$ after bad'

 

we may try drilling the hole in the bolt straight and if that doesn't work call it a day

 

this is supposed to be fun--right now not so much for him

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Actually pretty simple.  With the retaining cross pin going thru cattywumpus, it is not allowing full travel of Firing Pin Extension Rod.  The rod is hitting on the pin and pretty much stopping.  Re-drilling the bolt so the cross pin sits squarely thru the extension rod should cure the problem.  I would also suggest changing to the larger cross pin Uberti went too.  About the same size as a Decapping Pin.  Then insure the Extension Rod is free to move thru it's correct travel.  Also, the cross pin didn't break.  The extension rod cut it.

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11 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

gun is stock other than the wear and tear from shooting it 5 years.  

Howdy CR, in the five years of shooting has it ever been or sent to one of our many fine Cowboy gunsmiths:huh:. These folks know these guns in and out, if they can't fix they can tell you why;) Good Luck:)

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Take the bolt out of the gun and put the firing pin and firing pin extension in the bolt without the retaining pin.  Push the firing pin extension forward and check how much the firing pin protrudes from the face of the bolt.  It should be about .050”.  

 

Reassemble with the retaining pin installed (even if it is on an angle).  Again check the firing pin protrusion from the face of the bolt.  If there is less protrusion than without the retaining pin, it means that the firing pin extension is being stopped by the retaining pin and not bottoming out on the inside of the bolt.  

 

If if that is the case, which is probable, you can fix it easily by cutting the groove in the firing pin extension far enough to the rear to allow it to “bottom out” on the inside of the bolt, not hitting the retaining pin at all.  In normal operation the firing pin extension should never hit the retaining pin from a hammer fall.

 

If you change to a 1/16” pin as CC suggested, which is something I’ve done in all of my guns, I wouldn’t worry too much if rhe hole is on a slight angle.  The angle might weaken the bolt mechanism a little in the case of a catastrophic failure, but not much since the pin would still be in what we engineers call “double shear”.   

 

The problem isn’t the angle, it is that the hammer strike isn’t driving the firing pin far enough out to fire the primer.  

 

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Also, while everything is apart, make sure the firing pin extension is straight.  I worked on a gun for a friend that had an annoying habit of intermittent failure to fire.  I adjusted everything properly, but it kept doing it until it was noticed that there was a very slight bend in the extension, which caused it to bind.  Once it was replaced, the gun worked perfectly.  

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Thanks to all who responded, both here and in PMs

 

Slash just called and is going to pursue the idea that the cross pin is not allowing the bolt extention to hit the back of the firing pin.

 

Said he's not ready to buy a new rifle yet as he still likes the 66, warts and all

 

 

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7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

How does this rifle do with factory ammo?

OLG

have no idea--never had any run through it from day one

 

I will say all the ammo works in all our other guns:  rifles and pistols

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more info:

 

Slash says that the problem has been getting worse as time has passed.  Thinking something is wearing out or gummed up

 

both extension does bottom out on firing pin with cross pin in place.  Sticks out the same finger pushing it or pushing on extension

 

 

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Just now, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

have no idea--never had any run through it from day one

 

I will say all the ammo works in all our other guns:  rifles and pistols

Factory ammo removes any possibly of reload issues.

When the FTF happens-is there any mark on the primer?

OLG

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15 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Factory ammo removes any possibly of reload issues.

When the FTF happens-is there any mark on the primer?

OLG

 

I'll have to ask 'brother' as he always recocked and shot the round

 

if he did eject any I don't remember what primer looked like

 

 

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Just a thought about shooting an 1866.  I noted in one response someone indicated the lever safety had been removed.  I have a Uberti 1866 trapper in 38 special which does not have a lever safety and never did from the factory.  I quit shooting it because when trying to go faster I sometimes would get to the trigger before lever was fully closed which resulted in the hammer following the extension down resulting in a much weaker hammer striking force .

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1 hour ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

I'll have to ask 'brother' as he always recocked and shot the round

 

if he did eject any I don't remember what primer looked like

 

 

Please find out- ;)

OLG

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On 9/10/2018 at 8:57 AM, Ace Hanlon said:

I have a Uberti 1866 trapper in 38 special which does not have a lever safety and never did from the factory.

 

This is true for the Uberti 66s made after about 1985 (?) or so.  The first batches Uberti made, had the short receiver, were chambered for .38 special only, and had a lever safety.   They revised the design to "fix" all those "limitations".

 

Good luck, GJ

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6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Please find out- ;)

OLG

 

Slash said he remembers at the beginning when he checked the cartridges the primers would have a dent--doesn't remember it being a shallow one.

 

these days he just recocks the hammer by thumb and it fires again so doesn't have any to check.  Was going to do that when the cross pin broke.

 

 

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I'll bet the sear/trigger is hitting the half-cock notch on the hammer, as the hammer falls.

That 'hit' is more than enough, to weaken the 'smack' of the hammer on the FP.

Pull the hammer and look for a rounded front edge on that notch.

OLG

 

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On 9/8/2018 at 7:17 PM, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

still not sure what is causing misfires. 

Not sure this is your issue, but I had my 66 slicked up by a Smith. When I got it back it would not fire. I called him and he told me to remove the mainspring and put an extra bend in it. He said lay the spring on a piece of paper and draw the shape with a pencil. Then, put the extra bend on the mainspring, about a quarter to a half inch, and then reinstall the mainspring. After bending the spring, lay it on your drawing to see how much extra shape you are adding. I did this and that solved the problem. Works fine now. When reinstalling, snug the screw on the lower tang that holds the mainspring all the way up.

 

I had a similar issue with my 73. All I had to do is tighten the screw on the lower tang. Most misfires are caused my too light hammer strikes.

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1 hour ago, Lawman Mays said:

Not sure this is your issue, but I had my 66 slicked up by a Smith. When I got it back it would not fire. I called him and he told me to remove the mainspring and put an extra bend in it. He said lay the spring on a piece of paper and draw the shape with a pencil. Then, put the extra bend on the mainspring, about a quarter to a half inch, and then reinstall the mainspring. After bending the spring, lay it on your drawing to see how much extra shape you are adding. I did this and that solved the problem. Works fine now. When reinstalling, snug the screw on the lower tang that holds the mainspring all the way up.

 

I had a similar issue with my 73. All I had to do is tighten the screw on the lower tang. Most misfires are caused my too light hammer strikes.

 

forwarded this to Slash--no-cost fix if there ever was one

 

report back soon

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15 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I'll bet the sear/trigger is hitting the half-cock notch on the hammer, as the hammer falls.

That 'hit' is more than enough, to weaken the 'smack' of the hammer on the FP.

Pull the hammer and look for a rounded front edge on that notch.

OLG

 

 

forwarded this to him too

 

 

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