WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I saw a Model 97 the other day for sale it was cut to 20" and the barrel was modified to a tighter choke buy the use of a roller at the muzzle . You could see the difference in the od. of the barrel . Would this be considered a external modification ? Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 What's a "roller"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Single barrel guns that were damage had the barrel cut off and rechoked by driving them into a wagon wheel hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 That rechoking method (shorten barrel, then swage a constriction choke) would not be considered an external mod. Shotgun barrels are allowed to be shortened and chokes applied. Barrels may be shortened and/or crowned. Shotgun barrels may have internal choke tubes installed provided they do not extend beyond the muzzle. If an internal choke can be applied, then swaging the barrel to put "constriction choke" on, as long as it is safe, would be allowed too, I would be certain. As well, it will never be noticed, most likely. (Besides, if someone complained, you could lop off the barrel to 18 1/4 inch to remove the constriction.) Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 That rechoking method (shorten barrel, then swage a constriction choke) would not be considered an external mod. Shotgun barrels are allowed to be shortened and chokes applied. If an internal choke can be applied, then swaging the barrel to put "constriction choke" on, as long as it is safe, would be allowed too, I would be certain. As well, it will never be noticed, most likely. (Besides, if someone complained, you could lop off the barrel to 18 1/4 inch to remove the constriction.) Good luck, GJ I could see it I thought the barrel had a slight bulge in it behind the front bead , Then he told me a smith had used a choke roller to make it a modified choke . I had never seen that done before but it was a nice 97 and I figured it could always be shortened again to 18 1/4" if needed . Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I don't see anything wrong with it... but, I have never understood why anyone would put a choke on a Shotgun that is used to shoot targets that are as close as ours. The pattern at these distances is already tight... If anything, I want the pattern to open up more..... I sometimes use spreader wads to help in that regard. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 And a shotgun smith with a hydraulic barrel dent remover could expand the constriction choke back out, if you paid him enough. In fact, a tapered steel plug (dolly) and a hammer might just do the same Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 I don't see anything wrong with it... but, I have never understood why anyone would put a choke on a Shotgun that is used to shoot targets that are as close as ours. The pattern at these distances is already tight... If anything, I want the pattern to open up more..... I sometimes use spreader wads to help in that regard. Snakebite I don't know why either " Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Shooting lighter loads at knock downs farther away. Some clubs set shotgun KDs farther than others. Ability to activate flip up targets and break them without the foot travel. One club I enjoy shooting with has a target that flips a soda can into the air. I love this target! They tend to set it down range to keep the soda spray off their other steel so it becomes a foot race for folks with open tubes. Those would be the reasons some would go for a tighter tube. I think if you want to tailor your shotgun to the stage...choke tubes work best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I wud venture to say that this is an external mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Barrels may be shortened and/or crowned. SHB p.4 I would consider that "crowning" the barrel. IMO...it would be a listed (LEGAL) modification. Y'all are welcome to continue the debate for or against that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Shooting lighter loads at knock downs farther away. Some clubs set shotgun KDs farther than others. Ability to activate flip up targets and break them without the foot travel. One club I enjoy shooting with has a target that flips a soda can into the air. I love this target! They tend to set it down range to keep the soda spray off their other steel so it becomes a foot race for folks with open tubes. Those would be the reasons some would go for a tighter tube. I think if you want to tailor your shotgun to the stage...choke tubes work best. Just how far down range is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 That ain't a crown. A crown applies to the flat end of the muzzle. 'Smiths either create a round edge or a cone; both create a recessed bore that protects the rifling. And, he might use that shotgun for rabbit, quail, or grouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 That ain't a crown. A crown applies to the flat end of the muzzle. 'Smiths either create a round edge or a cone; both create a recessed bore that protects the rifling. agreed!!!! this type of choke cud also possibly maybe perhaps increase pressures too, in the same way a shotshell does when a similar function is used to make the front end smaller..... notice I sed, maybe perhaps possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 He could have had it backbored. Same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 PaleWolf : Glad you responded , I don't have a picture or the gun but the outside diameter of the barrel has been reduced in size about 3/4 " back from the muzzle and is noticeable to the eye . As I said earlier I thought it had a bulged barrel . Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 PaleWolf : Glad you responded , I don't have a picture or the gun but the outside diameter of the barrel has been reduced in size about 3/4 " back from the muzzle and is noticeable to the eye . As I said earlier I thought it had a bulged barrel . Woodfox If you are able to get a photo, I'll take it to the ROC to settle the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I saw that shotgun also. The end of the barrel did look funky. I wondered how they would do that to the end of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just how far down range is it?I want to say it was 30yds+ from the first shotgun firing maybe. Maybe not. I just found my range finder again so the lies I tell will be more accurate. I am aware that shooters tend to overestimate yardage so I tend to underestimate to compensate. It was further than I believed I count hit with the cylinder bore and AA Lites and that made all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I saw a Model 97 the other day for sale it was cut to 20" and the barrel was modified to a tighter choke buy the use of a roller at the muzzle . You could see the difference in the od. of the barrel . Would this be considered a external modification ? Woodfox Seems to me that if you cut the end off of something you have modified it externally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Seems to me that if you cut the end off of something you have modified it externally. OMG, PLEASE read the rules as cited in items 11 and 4 of this very thread. Cutting a barrel is an approved external modification. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I didn't mean to start an argument I just never see that done before PaleWolf if I get a picture I'll send it to you . Lets put this thing to rest . Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Seems to me that if you cut the end off of something you have modified it externally. That's an allowed external modification. The debate which has confounded folks and resulted in a stream of Mother may I's centers on a visibly altered few inches of barrel. I'm not the voice of anything but my own thoughts, but the issue which should be decided upon is whether or not this was a possibility during the period which we are trying to emulate. Not how it looks or if it is the right thing to do or not. Could a cowboy have done this to tighten his choke in his 1897? Yes or no? Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Could a cowboy have done this to tighten his choke in his 1897? Yes or no? Simple. Although that is PART of what I understand (by hearsay) that the Rules Committee considers when making an "allowed modification" decision, there are other things they consider too. Safety, competitiveness, cost of the mod, the "image" that the mod presents to spectators, even sometimes it seems who's asking for the mod, etc. Could and was this kind of mod done in the 1900s? Sure was, it's called a constriction choke. Was considered a cheap and dirty way to choke a damaged barrel. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Although that is PART of what I understand (by hearsay) that the Rules Committee considers when making an "allowed modification" decision, there are other things they consider too. Safety, competitiveness, cost of the mod, the "image" that the mod presents to spectators, even sometimes it seems who's asking for the mod, etc. Could and was this kind of mod done in the 1900s? Sure was, it's called a constriction choke. Was considered a cheap and dirty way to choke a damaged barrel. Good luck, GJ Safety: How can they make that determination from afar? Competition: Makes his pattern smaller same as an already legal screw in choke. No issue. Cost: No issue. People are willing to pay $500 a pistol for short strokes so price elasticity is infinite in CAS. Image to spectators: What spectators? Kidding. No issue here either as it is easily defended/explained as period correct as you said. Who's asking for the mod: This reeks of impropriety. There's nothing good coming from this aspect so let's leave it alone lest we end up with more big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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