Trailrider #896 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just saw this movie, made in 1942, which showed the rise of Germany, Italy and Japan prior to Pearl Harbor. For the most part, Americans wanted no part of "war in Europe". The frightening thing about this film is the parallels with today's situation vis a vis ISIS/ISL/Daesh or whatever politically correct term you want to use. What is the difference between what Mussolini did in Ethiopia and Somalia, what Japan did in Korea, Manchuria, and then China? Of course, those bloody acts didn't affect us! There weren't any domestic terror acts...then. Our oceans would protect us. Until December 7, 1941. Until September 11, 2001. Until last week in San Bernardino! But "no boots on the ground"! Let others do the fighting against the Daesh (except for a few Special Ops troops). What should we do? Pass a few more laws...that won't do any good. Ignore the muffled sounds of gunfire! It's easy to do...when your ears are plugged up because your head is buried in the sand! I'm commander of a veterans post. Do I want to see our men and women in the Armed Forces shot up, blown up in some foreign lands? Hell no! But, neither do I want to see our innocent civilians subject to the same situations! Or worse! Like CBN weapons in some city center! And don't think those who behead innocents in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan won't do the same HERE, if we give them the chance! "Those who fail to learn the lessons from history are doomed to repeat the mistakes thereof!" Ride careful, Pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I agree Trailrider. But I do not believe this a prelude to war, War is already here. Like WW II, we didn't want it, but it is found us. Those that deny that are at war are putting us all in a very dangerous position. What we do not have is the infrastructure that we had in the late 1930s. Our manufacturing is no match for what it was then. I guess we could always call them up on our cell phones and call them nasty names. Maybe import a few firearms from Italy or Czech Republic, because our factories are pretty quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Badger, your closing sentence is painfully and alarmingly profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 In fact the USA has by far the largest industrial capacity in the world. I was just told this by a VP from Franklin Templeton. I challenged him on it asking what exactly it is that we make here. His answer included such things as computers and smart phones. Like all these guys he is looking at the value of what is produced and because so many of those product are sold worldwide he can truthfully say our capacity is larger than China, Japan and Germany combined. The problem is that almost none of that capacity is in heavy industry. We produce a lot of aircraft but they are so expensive and take so long to make that wartime production of the quantities we would need is impossible with the current facilities. But with the cost per unit the bean counters can say we outproduce everyone else. Figures lie and liars figure. So, from one point of view, we have tremendous industrial capacity however, to the point, it isn't in much of anything that would be needed to make weapons of war in quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Very, very few computers and even fewer "smart phones" are manufactured in the USA. Computers Built In America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Bugs, I live in central NC. Within a few hour drive are two auto assemblers with mny subcontractors making local parts, heavy equipment manufacturers (Deere-Hitachi, Caterpillar, JCB), Honda jet, Gulfstream jet, firearm plants (Remington, Ruger, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS and T/C), and a herd of subcontractors. The infrastrcture is still here. The fab shop that I work in just hired three machinists and welders just out of school. We make a lot here and can make more. My take on the situation is that we live in interesting times that need more than general misconceptions. We need a plan and fortitude to stick with it. We need the truth that starts with accurate language and ends with a real assessment of our friends and enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Bugs, I live in central NC. Within a few hour drive are two auto assemblers with mny subcontractors making local parts, heavy equipment manufacturers (Deere-Hitachi, Caterpillar, JCB), Honda jet, Gulfstream jet, firearm plants (Remington, Ruger, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS and T/C), and a herd of subcontractors. The infrastrcture is still here. The fab shop that I work in just hired three machinists and welders just out of school. We make a lot here and can make more. My take on the situation is that we live in interesting times that need more than general misconceptions. We need a plan and fortitude to stick with it. We need the truth that starts with accurate language and ends with a real assessment of our friends and enemies. And a LEADER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Amigos till the next election we have a fox in the henhouse. Much different and much more dangerous than in 1941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Bugs, I live in central NC. Within a few hour drive are two auto assemblers with mny subcontractors making local parts, heavy equipment manufacturers (Deere-Hitachi, Caterpillar, JCB), Honda jet, Gulfstream jet, firearm plants (Remington, Ruger, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS and T/C), and a herd of subcontractors. The infrastrcture is still here. The fab shop that I work in just hired three machinists and welders just out of school. We make a lot here and can make more. My take on the situation is that we live in interesting times that need more than general misconceptions. We need a plan and fortitude to stick with it. We need the truth that starts with accurate language and ends with a real assessment of our friends and enemies. Agree. The media is helpingh to foment fear and panic. They are becoming as much a threat to our stability as any terror group. We need not give in to this. Even with all our problems we are nowhere near as threatened as we were this day 74 years ago. Warfare it is but warfare of an unconventional nature. We have the people and the know how to win. We are lacking in the leadership department right now but I am confident that although some dark times may loom, we will prevail. If I didn't think so, I'd be on the next plane to Costa Rica. We have more people killed by lightning and drunk drivers each year than by terrorists. Stay strong. Stay vigilant. Don't let fear win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'd love to agree, really I would but my concern is in self sufficiency. We assemble autos but where is the steel from? In fact where is all the steal for all the subcontractors being mined and made? That is just the tip of the iceberg but it is a mighty large tip. 75 years ago it was made here, how much steal are we producing today?When you are reliant on imports to provide raw materials and equipment to run your industry you had better have complete mastery of the seas (check on how that worked out for Japan). Today to master the sea you also have to master the air. How many F22's can you produce per month? If you have 100 and they shoot down the enemy at a rate of 20 to one your force can take out 2000 of the enemy before it is depleted. What happens when your opponent has 3000 fighters? That's WWII in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Bugs has hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'm not sure what our manufacturing capability has to do with terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'm not sure what our manufacturing capability has to do with terrorism? It doesn't, but the title was "Prelude to War". If you limit it to the war on terrorism you're right. If you expand it to a world wide conflict caused by ISIS gaining control of countries like Belgium, Britain, Indonesia and a number of others in the mideast it becomes relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Agree. The media is helpingh to foment fear and panic. They are becoming as much a threat to our stability as any terror group. We need not give in to this. Even with all our problems we are nowhere near as threatened as we were this day 74 years ago. Warfare it is but warfare of an unconventional nature. We have the people and the know how to win. We are lacking in the leadership department right now but I am confident that although some dark times may loom, we will prevail. If I didn't think so, I'd be on the next plane to Costa Rica. We have more people killed by lightning and drunk drivers each year than by terrorists. Stay strong. Stay vigilant. Don't let fear win. +1. The military "effect" of terrorist actions is relatively small. Much larger, and more important is the effect on they have on the hearts and minds" of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 My original point was NOT that our current situation is a prelude to war. That was simply the title of the movie series produced in 1942-45. My point was that the rise of Nazism, fascism and Japanese imperialism in the 1930's and early '40's was largely ignored by many Americans, until those became a significant, meaningful threat to America. Right now, I don't think it is the general public that has its head in the sand (or other places that the sun doesn't shine), but certain of our "leaders"!As to our manufacturing capabilities, there is little doubt that our basic industries weren't what they used to be. We buy steel from other countries, etc. But, unlike during WWII, when we were "The Arsenal of Democracy", our allies are not in danger of being overrun. OTOH, we have delegated a lot of technology to others. One that certainly comes to mind is the dependence (for right now, anyway) on Russian RD-180 rocket engines to power the Atlas V launch vehicle, which is used to lift defense satellites into orbit. The original idea was to build half of them in West Palm Beach, FL. It was deemed "too expensive" to tool up to do that, rather than buy them directly from the Russian outfit that manufactures them. With relations with Putin declining, that certainly turns out to being penny-wise and pound-foolish! Right now, however, our manufacturing base is not so much what we need to be concerned about. Statistically, I agree about the chances of being hit by lightning, etc., and there is a higher probability of being attacked by some deranged individual than a terrorist. But we still must guard, as much as practicable, against "sleeper cells", etc. So the key is probably to have a somewhat heightened sense of awareness of our surroundings, and to err on the side of caution. Ride easy, but stay alert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I just finished re- reading two wonderful books I have owned for 30+ years. Both by Herman Wouk: Winds of War, and War and Remembrance. Besides being excellent stories, they are filled with many facts about the rise of Hitler and US reluctance to enter the war in Europe, etc. They are great reads and I highly recommend them. I found it very interesting how many things that happened then, are relevant now! Cheers, Hoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. QUINCANNON, SASS #32999 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Hoss, you just mentioned two of my favorite books of all time. Mr. Wouk did an amazing job of conveying the perilous times he lived through as a young man. I only hope that there will be someone to write the story of these perilous times 50 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Sgt Q, well that makes two of us; I hope some of the other Pards will be interested and read them. Certainly high on my all time favorite books. Cheers, Hoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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