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Leaving The Loading Table With Loaded Pistols...How Far is Too Far?


Cypress Sun

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So....if a shooter forgets and proceeds from the Firing Line to his cart instead of the ULT the shooter earns a SDQ

 

Anybody ever call that one?

Yep, he earned it.

 

Nope, near seen it enforced with a SDQ.

 

Have seen friendly safety officers intercept and sho the forgetful shooter over to the ULT. But definitely, the shooter was off the straight and narrow beeline course from firing line to ULT.

 

Unoffical rule of thumb I've been told, and worth nothing, was that if he still had long guns in hand and at cart, it was a no call!

 

I don't remember seeing a penalty given at the LT either, until my ears were pinned back this year.

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I was at an ELVIS concert along time ago.

 

When he finished his last song, the announcement was made that "ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING".

 

EVERYONEE knew exactly what 'LEFT THE BUILDING' meant.

 

and I think we all know exactly what it means when we are told NOT to leave the LT with loaded pistols other than our trek to the firing line.

 

 

..........Widder

From the insurance standpoint, Ok if on firing line,,, firing line meaning from LT, straight to firing line and straight to ULT? With minimal deviation.

 

So tell us exactily what it mean, not to leave the LT.? How much of a deviation is acceptable and is it published.?.

 

And now we are back to the OP ;)

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So tell us exactily what it means. ;)

 

it means he/she 'left'..... :)

 

its kinda line when I leave the house in the morning to come to work. I walk out the door and get in my truck and the phone rings in the house. My Bunkhouse Boss answers it and its the caller says: "This is Blastmaster. Can I speak to the feller they call Widder".

 

Although I might still be in the driveway, backing out onto the road, my wife says: 'He just left for work".

 

That's about the only way I know to Xplain it..... :)

 

 

..........Widder

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I truly feel that PROPERLY loaded pistols are very safe when poisoned properly in their intended holsters, I truly do

However, I will apply the slippery slope syndrome to such a change in current SASS rules

Why not walk away with the rifle loaded and on an empty chamber

Why not load at your cart etc

 

If folks don't see that then fine

Change to rule to just allow standing in the shade with loaded pistols

 

It ain't rocket trajectory

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it means he/she 'left'..... :)

 

its kinda line when I leave the house in the morning to come to work. I walk out the door and get in my truck and the phone rings in the house. My Bunkhouse Boss answers it and its the caller says: "This is Blastmaster. Can I speak to the feller they call Widder".

 

Although I might still be in the driveway, backing out onto the road, my wife says: 'He just left for work".

 

That's about the only way I know to Xplain it..... :)

 

 

..........Widder

'Out of ear shot range' for your example.

 

Boss lady couldn't get you back to say, 'Blastmaster has the winning Readers Digest lotto ticket' and you need to be present to win.

 

Got it. Ear shot range.

 

Getting ready for work myself.

 

Have a great day.

 

Blastmaster

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'Out of ear shot range' for your example.

 

Boss lady couldn't get you back to say, 'Blastmaster has the winning Readers Digest lotto ticket' and you need to be present to win.

 

Got it. Ear shot range.

 

Getting ready for work myself.

 

Have a great day.

 

Blastmaster

Not fair, my def earshot range add a dash of two ear plugs, I could still be standing at the loading table and earn that penalty

True story

Besides, ear shot range at what sound decibel?

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'Out of ear shot range' for your example.

 

Boss lady couldn't get you back to say, 'Blastmaster has the winning Readers Digest lotto ticket' and you need to be present to win.

 

Got it. Ear shot range.

 

Getting ready for work myself.

 

Have a great day.

 

Blastmaster

 

I'd be back in the house so fast it would make the Roadrunner look slow..... :lol:

 

I'm about to get off work in 3 hours and go home to work on...........(you guessed it)...... a rifle.

 

Have a great day also

 

 

..........Widder

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I truly feel that PROPERLY loaded pistols are very safe when poisoned properly in their intended holsters, I truly do

 

Yes,but now we got this insurance liability issue for SASS and any club to resolve. As of now, it (what is firing line and when isn't it) is this fuzzy 'Designated Loading Area' rule that has a penalty associated with it that the insurance companies want.

 

However, I will apply the slippery slope syndrome to such a change in current SASS rules

Why not walk away with the rifle loaded and on an empty chamber

 

They do, when stepping away from LT toward firing line w/o direct supervision.

Why not load at your cart etc

 

If folks don't see that then fine

Change to rule to just allow standing in the shade with loaded pistols

 

Change it as in define it! Define it so insurance companies and your lawyers can defend a potential suite. Hate going there myself. Or perhaps fall back on everyone is a safety officer and they will monitor and get the potential violator back into compliance,, within ear shot? :mellow: , w/o penalty? :unsure:

It ain't rocket trajectory

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Not fair, my def earshot range add a dash of two ear plugs, I could still be standing at the loading table and earn that penalty

True story

Besides, ear shot range at what sound decibel?

Sorry for your loss, perhaps flashes of lights for the hearing impaired. Then you would have to walk backwards. :) With a trained escort dog. Or shock collars for the hard of hearing. LOL.

 

Sound decibel? hopefully not dog whisle tone. :huh:

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I'd be back in the house so fast it would make the Roadrunner look slow..... :lol:

 

I'm about to get off work in 3 hours and go home to work on...........(you guessed it)...... a rifle.

 

Have a great day also

 

 

..........Widder

then you are really here,

 

thank you, drive safely home

 

This is fun.

 

Blastmaster

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Blaster dude

 

Relax, take a deep breath, the rule is there for a reason, I was playing devils advocate

It goes beyond insurance as you suggest, and insurance is ruining many endeavors, but only because of frivolous law suit defense cost

 

It's common cents

Do not leave the loading table with loaded guns PERIOD, not even for shade,,,,,,or

Be willing to accept the penalty be it ,,,,,,,,,, the calls are perfectly consistent or not

 

For crying out loud

No calls are perfectly consistent, hence the requirement for three counters etc

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hey, why have the rule at all? we holler about businesses that don't allow CCW, why should the range be any different.... all of a sudden you don't trust the shooter, er I mean person that is using open carry...?

 

 

We should not have a hard and fast rule. There should be no onerous SDQ penalty for a violation that is entirely subjective in its enforcement. Either we should have defined parameters or the "rule" should revert to local custom only with the penalty range from verbal reminder to no more than an MSV for the most egregious violations. The hard ass SDQ for standing 2 paces from the LT to take advantage of a little shade really needs to go away. Shooter should be left alone and if some nervous nelly dares to reproach the shooter for such a harmless stance, said nervous nelly needs to hear go bug someone else with impunity for the shooter.

 

Sarcastic Mode ON:

 

TO: I regret to inform you that in someone's opinion you have gone outside of the Designated Loading Area and you have earned a SDQ...........but look on the bright side you were considered safe while doing it

 

Shooter: :blink::blink::blink:

 

TO: NEXT SHOOTER

 

Sarcastic Mode OFF:

 

 

RO1 Pg1

 

Consistency is important—undefined rules and gray areas cause hard feelings, misunderstandings, and arguments.

 

<_<

 

 

Exactly and bingo. Inconsistency in behaviour enforcement is what makes kids crazy. Same with shooters. When it is a subjective thing as in one posse does one thing another does it different then we are on the wrong path. Like I said before this opens it up to the old it depends on who you are. As in me and ole so and so can do this with impunity but YOU can NOT. And if YOU do then we are gonna zing ya with a big ole SDQ and smack our sorry lips.

 

Cold range requirements are common insurance requirements. The range that I serve as an officer of has an insurance policy through an NRA-recommended underwriter that requires unloaded firearms when on range except at a firing line. While I trust most CAS competitors with a loaded, holstered revolver anywhere I can't allow this practise and maintain our coverage. Thankfully SASS rules reinforce local insurance requirements.

 

The firing line is very wide and could be understood to be almost as wide in the up and down range dimension. I always thot insurance was entirely a local club deal and that SASS itself makes each club sign some kind of disclaimer holding the org blameless?

 

So....if a shooter forgets and proceeds from the Firing Line to his cart instead of the ULT the shooter earns a SDQ

 

Anybody ever call that one?

 

Nope. Never seen it called and I have been a few places.

 

I truly feel that PROPERLY loaded pistols are very safe when poisoned properly in their intended holsters, I truly do

However, I will apply the slippery slope syndrome to such a change in current SASS rules

Why not walk away with the rifle loaded and on an empty chamber

Why not load at your cart etc

 

If folks don't see that then fine

Change to rule to just allow standing in the shade with loaded pistols

 

It ain't rocket trajectory

 

No it is not. We have long had the LT system. It works well . BUT there is no need to slap a SDQ on anyone with loaded pistols safely holstered so long as they remain anywhere along the firing line.

 

 

I'd be back in the house so fast it would make the Roadrunner look slow..... :lol:

 

I'm about to get off work in 3 hours and go home to work on...........(you guessed it)...... a rifle.

 

Have a great day also

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

Roadrunners are not that fast, they just look like they are. Coyotes are much faster. Our entire childhoods were a lie...

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If the DESIGNATED LOADING AREAS for every range were CONSISTENT (i.e. the SAME) we would have no problem coming up with a definitive distance past which the shooter is in violation of the rule.

 

It is obvious that some of the posters here are unaware of the DIFFERENCES between the various clubs' range setups.

 

FWIW - One of my "day jobs" is as a pesticide consultant...gadflies really have no effect on getting anything accomplished, particularly in regard to the ROC making a decision (no particular individual targeted here...but there IS more than one of you...if the shoe fits...)

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Six pages, 190 posts.

 

Time to move on to something more important.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ginger.

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Defining the 'Designated Loading Areas' should be a club task for their range, not an ROC task.

Clubs can tailor their definition to suit their unique range situation. The ROC has already spelled out the penalty. So ROC really doesn't have to do anything. The club should.

 

Appears several TG's that represent their clubs and are suppose to know the rules and convey to their members, amoung others, haven't grasp this conversation nor are willing to either.

 

Every club I've shot at including EOT & WR have at the minimum, a card table, sq. table, round spool, long permanent table, something flat that two or more people can safely load their guns, and thus, a simplistic rule could be arms reach, or two steps away.. but put it in writing so it can be referred to.

 

Interesting to know what could be so much different at some club for LT, that a definition couldn't be made.

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The firing line is very wide and could be understood to be almost as wide in the up and down range dimension. I always thot insurance was entirely a local club deal and that SASS itself makes each club sign some kind of disclaimer holding the org blameless?

 

Reply: My club does not consider firing lines as having much depth. I refer you to NRA range safety handbooks for their opinion. Perhaps a NRA range safety instructor will chime in. At common firing lines we would call a cease fire if one shooter was standing forward of another's muzzle. Regarding SASS's requirements for affiliated clubs, you can read them online at this site. SASS demands annual evidence of a million dollar liability policy from affiliated clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Roadrunners are not that fast, they just look like they are. Coyotes are much faster. Our entire childhoods were a lie...

 

Reply: Roadrunners do run well. (I have one living in my backyard.) They also can fly but prefer walking. Coyotes run fast too. Neighborhood cats leave my roadrunner alone. My neighbor's cat is blind in one eye and walks on three legs after trying to catch a juvenile roadrunner. Roadrunners are meat eating birds that catch and eat snakes alive along with lizards and toads. They don't touch birdseed like the animated roadrunner. (Yes the cartoons lie.) Local superstition is that if a roadrunner crosses your path it is good luck. I like that superstition and I like the birds.

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I say we all stop shooting till we get this worked out

I gotta better deal -

 

Let the folks who don't have enough common sense to be able to answer the original question go sit on the sidelines at the next match and maybe keep score or sort brass or do something they can be safe at. The rest of us can JUST GO SHOOT!

 

:lol: GJ

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The firing line is very wide and could be understood to be almost as wide in the up and down range dimension. I always thot insurance was entirely a local club deal and that SASS itself makes each club sign some kind of disclaimer holding the org blameless?

 

Reply: My club does not consider firing lines as having much depth. I refer you to NRA range safety handbooks for their opinion. Perhaps a NRA range safety instructor will chime in. At common firing lines we would call a cease fire if one shooter was standing forward of another's muzzle. Regarding SASS's requirements for affiliated clubs, you can read them online at this site. SASS demands annual evidence of a million dollar liability policy from affiliated clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Roadrunners are not that fast, they just look like they are. Coyotes are much faster. Our entire childhoods were a lie...

 

Reply: Roadrunners do run well. (I have one living in my backyard.) They also can fly but prefer walking. Coyotes run fast too. Neighborhood cats leave my roadrunner alone. My neighbor's cat is blind in one eye and walks on three legs after trying to catch a juvenile roadrunner. Roadrunners are meat eating birds that catch and eat snakes alive along with lizards and toads. They don't touch birdseed like the animated roadrunner. (Yes the cartoons lie.) Local superstition is that if a roadrunner crosses your path it is good luck. I like that superstition and I like the birds.

 

 

Are you trying to tell me that Coyotes' really don't get their nifty accessories from Acme? As a side note, everyone knows that Roadrunners were really made by Plymouth. Meat eaters......no........gas guzzlers......yes and you're going to have to use Premium.

 

The real question is......how far away from the gas pump can you park your Roadrunner before the gas nozzle won't reach?

I'm guessing about 6'.

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What is included in loading table AREA? Table Weather cover, Gun rack, Sun shade, Heater set up for shooters to warm hands, Coat rack for shooter, Expediter table, Weather cover over expediter table, etc. At some shoots these can stretch out to 10 yards or more but the loading table itself is maybe only 4 foot by 2 foot.

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The real question is......how far away from the gas pump can you park your Roadrunner before the gas nozzle won't reach?

I'm guessing about 6'.

 

 

How far away from the gas station can you drive before you better turn around so you make it back before tank runs dry?

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The real question is......how far away from the gas pump can you park your Roadrunner before the gas nozzle won't reach?

I'm guessing about 6'.

 

 

How far away from the gas station can you drive before you better turn around so you make it back before tank runs dry?

 

 

That's funny. I know a rich guy that owns a bunch of classic cars. Some he has rat motors installed in some of them.....850hp, 4 miles to the gallon. Gotta use racing fuel in them. Nearest place to get racing fuel is about 10 miles from his mansion. The '70 GTO Judge has a 10 gallon tank on it, instead to the 20+ gallon factory tank.

 

Sorry to get off the beaten horse but I've always found that GTO to be amusing.

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You want a sixth black star? :D

 

Thank goodness I don't wear shoes.

 

He's either getting use to me...................or the requirements have gotten stiffer

 

Either way it's not as easy as it usta be

 

I'll just have to think outside the box area.............nothings off the table now!

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Went to a shoot today at one of my favorite clubs. Had a wonderful time.

 

Saw a shooter leave the LT but not the 'Designated Loading Area'.... No call! ;)

 

We all laughed about the long sleeve roll up/sew up, button up, glue up policy. :D the only guy that had his sleeves rolled up mid wrist/elbow was wearing a heavy wool shirt and temp was 75. No call, again!

 

A first time buckaroo was given forgiveness for his short sleeved shirt, orange tennis shoes, and half length pants,, but was severely warned by the MD that if he didn't pull up his pants and keep them up, he would be outa here. :) His good kidding comment was, he was a gangster. Gangster catagory was not acceptable to MD, but a Steampunk was, if his Grandpa could provide welding goggles, of which his GP is a welder. Good kid and we all enjoyed having him on board.

 

Blastmaster

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