Willie Earp, SASS#19022 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Hey! First of all, please don't pimp me for putting this on the regular wire. I know that there is a WB wire, but my thought is that I will tap into a wider source of expertise with this question. So I am considering getting into BAMM, at least for the side matches and I'd like an opportunity to try out my '03A3 in competition. I am a long time bullet caster and reloader, but my experience with the 30-06 caliber has been entirely jacketed hunting and military rounds, not anything lead. Over this past weekend, I was looking into reloading data and NONE of the powder makers have loads for bullet velocities as low as what BAMM requires. Does anyone have reload data for this? Thanks, Willie Earp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 This may help: http://www.reloadammo.com/3006load.htm And this. Look at the list on the left side of the page for the different calibers. You'll find 30-06 near the top. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm And "The Load" http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Clem Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Willie We use 4759 Powder with a 175gr Gas Check bullet sized @ .310. This load in my 1903, 1903A3 and Mauser 30-06 is a tack driver. PM me and I will give you the powder charge I use. Goatneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 As well as other references to good data for cast bullet 30-06 loading, here's an old standard article that is a wealth of info for four different load levels: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article The whole "Cast Boolits" site has many articles on loading 30-06 cast bullet loads! I was looking into reloading data and NONE of the powder makers have loads for bullet velocities as low as what BAMM requires. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has tons of data for cast bullet rifle loads. BAMM does not have a maximum allowed velocity, but I'll bet the practical limit of just how fast you can accurately shoot a cast bullet in rifle loads makes for a self-limited load of about 2000 FPS, perhaps slightly more with super hard cast bullets and gas checks. Goatneck's load with 4759 is a fine one - I've seen him shoot that a few times. I have a bunch of 5744 loads that also shoot in the same 1 inch group size in a good military bolt gun. Just don't have a 30-06 right now to have specifics for you on that, but for large-case military cast bullet loads, if the load works in safely in a 30-06, it works safely in 8mm and Mosins and Jap 7.7s and .303 (British) .... etc. Your accuracy may vary, however. Even from gun to gun. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'm sure Lyman has quite a few loads for cast bullets in the .30-06 Government cartridge, either online of in their cast bullet handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Tom Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I hate asking stupid questions, but what is BAMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Bolt Action Military Match , tons of fun. The onlyest problem I have with it is the trend to lead bullets for this side match. Now this is a requirement at certain ranges by land owner edict. Other places -- not so much. If your range allows FMJ then to me that is the way to go. That way you can use cheap surplus ammo and not have to worry about re-loading cartridges that were never intended to be loaded with lead bullets. There are even steel targets that can take the punishment. I have seen ads for steel targets absorbing belts and belts of full auto FMJ 308 from an M60. Other alternative targets can also be utilized. Much cheaper and easier to use the surplus ammo if your range allows it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Bolt Action Military Match is an officially recognized and codified(means has official rules) as far as the rifle is concerned side match at Wild Bunch shooting events. The ammunition and targets used are up to the local venue. Action target has an excellent AR500 12X14 oval target that comes on a stand which places it at 45 degrees and it can withstand FMJ ammunition used in the matches. It looks like 12" circle when viewed. We use that target in our Modern 3gun matches all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Much cheaper and easier to use the surplus ammo if your range allows it True maybe 3 years ago. For the most part, not true anymore (on the cheaper end of things for sure, and not even on the easier to find part). Surplus ammo for BAMM rifles has for the most part gone the way of the dodo. Considering US produced ammo, all the WW II and Korean conflict ammo is gone. Vietnam and later ammo was in large part never released as loaded ammo - only the fired brass. And from mid 90's on, the fired brass was all sold off to scrapyards rather than surplused. And most of the stuff from Vietnam on was not BAMM caliber. What is available now is steel cased ammo, fresh made, eastern Europe origin. Not reloadable, and often priced just under commercial soft point ammo to maximize profits. Where does that claim come from? Recent personal experience....just started shooting an 8mm Mauser in BAMM, not a round of surplus with brass reloadable cases to be had ANYPLACE. Some Privi Partizan new loaded FMJ at soft point hunting ammo prices. Some steel cased FMJ from Romania that the internet swore was loaded with road apples rather than useful smokeless powder, and corrosive primers to boot. Glad I cast and load my own. Shoots softer, as accurate or better than most cheap FMJ. And half the price of even surplus ammo. As long as most of the BAMM events are under 200 yards, I doubt you will even see any better practical accuracy with jacketed ammo (considering how well many folks will shoot full load jacketed ammo). The requirement for a club to have to buy more high-end AR500 targets, at this point in our economy, just to hold a BAMM match, is why some clubs just say, shoot lead ammo! In the end, a wise BAMM shooter would be well prepared to shoot any type of ammo at any distance out to about 600 yards. But, be real prepared to shoot lead bullet loads at a hundred yards or so, either from bench, sticks, or even offhand. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 In recent memory I have gotten some Iranian 3006 so cheap I knew before it got here it would be nasty. Sure nuff it was but durn cheap. Also got a bunch of 8mm worth the money but I forget the origin. And many many spam cans of 7.62 x 54 for me Moisins. Cannot find any cheap 303 and for shore no 30/40 at any price. Nor any cheap 308 for the Ishapore. But there is new made 308 that is fairly cheap and much easier to deal with than loading lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I have a case of mil urplusball ammo in 30-06 but my 03a3is sportorized and not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Who says? Legality of sporterized bolt action military rifles is up to each individual match director I do believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Who says? Legality of sporterized bolt action military rifles is up to each individual match director I do believe. The rules on the WB Forum say "no external modifications." What's the sense of having a military rifle match with sporterized rifles? I guess a local match director could allow just about anything, but I hope they won't. There's a ton of cheap surplus bolt actions out there if someone wants to play. A fellow recently let me try his Mosin Nagant at the range and by the second stripper clip, I was banging an 8" plate at 200 yards about three out of five shots. The idea of a competition with original vintage battle rifles is cool, allowing "run what you brung", not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hey! First of all, please don't pimp me for putting this on the regular wire. I know that there is a WB wire, but my thought is that I will tap into a wider source of expertise with this question. So I am considering getting into BAMM, at least for the side matches and I'd like an opportunity to try out my '03A3 in competition. I am a long time bullet caster and reloader, but my experience with the 30-06 caliber has been entirely jacketed hunting and military rounds, not anything lead. Over this past weekend, I was looking into reloading data and NONE of the powder makers have loads for bullet velocities as low as what BAMM requires. Does anyone have reload data for this? Thanks, Willie Earp The IMR website has good info on cast bullet loads using Trail Boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The rules on the WB Forum say "no external modifications." What's the sense of having a military rifle match with sporterized rifles? I guess a local match director could allow just about anything, but I hope they won't. There's a ton of cheap surplus bolt actions out there if someone wants to play. A fellow recently let me try his Mosin Nagant at the range and by the second stripper clip, I was banging an 8" plate at 200 yards about three out of five shots. The idea of a competition with original vintage battle rifles is cool, allowing "run what you brung", not so much. The idea of allowing sporterized bolt rifles is to get more participation. There are way more bubba'ed stock bolt guns out there than those maintained in original stock configuration. No one is saying to allow scopes or better sights. Original sights only. I just don't see that a chopped down stock makes any difference whatsoever. Period. If we follow all the examples that are allowed in regular CAS then well that ship has sailed. If ye are the Match Director then ban the bubbas, if I have any say all cut down stocks are more than welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 What happened to the ban on loading data on these fora? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 What happened to the ban on loading data on these fora? ? Just took another look through the thread, and all I can say is: What data? Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Lone dog,I just located a company that will load lead BAMM ammo. Look over on the wild bunch forum for details. Dusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Pete SASS #42168 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 My club only allows cast lead on one of the ranges. Easier on the targets, less likely to ricochet, less likely to leave the property. They shoot old military bolt action rifles every month and get a big turn out. Never heard a single complaint about the cast lead only rule. Not everyone casts but it is easy enough to get bullets from another shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Lone dog,I just located a company that will load lead BAMM ammo. Look over on the wild bunch forum for details. Dusty Yeah I saw that and that is great and the bullets to roll yer own with the aluminum gc's and that is downright great BUT I betcha neither route is as cheap and easy peasey as I can get old rusty crusty corrosive surplus for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Ld, it would be cheaper I think than you think. As simple as picking up the telephone and ordering it just like you would surplus. Compare more than likely to factory wolf or ppu. It would also be gentler on you and your rifle. I shot that rusty crusty crap and let's just say I wasn't impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Surplus is WAY cheaper than fresh Wolf or Tula or the Serb stuff. Good stuff and I like it but the old corrosive surplus canNOT be beat pricewise period. I will be ordering some of this stuff for places like CCV where lead is required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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