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Gun Control is NOT the answer


Rooster Ron Wayne

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When a person comes at you with a weapon, there is only one way to stop the attack. It isn't by exploring his mental history, or limiting other peoples access to weapons, or rating entertainment as violent, or having a caring intervention, or trying to understand his childhood, or by keeping a log of the wings he pulls off flies, or praying for him, no, the only sure method of stopping a deadly attack is to meet it with deadly resistance! The heroism shown by the principal, administrators, and teachers clearly shows that had they been armed and skilled with the proper tools, there would be more children alive today!

 

What's really the most important, feel good discussion groups or saving lives that didn't have to be lost?

 

Frankly, I'm thankful the killer had the presence of mind upon realizing the armed police were arriving that he killed himself. Without armed resistance arriving at the scene how many more of the 600 children present would have been victims?

 

Cowards like this killer, the mall shooter, etc never choose to attack a location that has armed persons at the site.

 

It truly is that simple.

 

Good post....it is that simple.

 

Geez....But I have no answer....

 

 

GG

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All I know is ,if he did NOT use a gun .

 

Maybe he used a Chevy truck, and ran over the kids in the cross walk on the way home .

Is the government going to ban Gm from making Chevy Trucks ?

 

If He went to the hardwire store and made a pipe bomb and blew up the school .

Is the government going to put a ban on PVC or Hardwire stores or ?

 

The Issue is the nut job not the GUN or the Chevy or any thing else !

 

1. we need to start to see capital punishment !

2. we need to hold the owner of the firearm responsible for there property !

3. we need to stop this 30 years on death row and implement the the outcome Immediately !

4. we need to show the criminals that you will be executed publicly !

5. we need to arm law abiding citizens every were !

 

I totally agree, but the knuckle heard are going to push the issue! Maybe if folks could

sit back and think of the best way to correct the way we deal with this type of violence

in a rational way before we start making up new laws that do any good whats so ever! We

must have a clear head, open heart and the willingness to work together to correct this problem! I do this Rooster has some good points, but it would be just a start.

God bless. QDG

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I totally agree, but the knuckle heard are going to push the issue! Maybe if folks could

sit back and think of the best way to correct the way we deal with this type of violence

in a rational way before we start making up new laws that do any good whats so ever! We

must have a clear head, open heart and the willingness to work together to correct this problem! I do this Rooster has some good points, but it would be just a start.

God bless. QDG

 

Fair nuff!....yup

 

GG

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Like I said in the first place .

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE ! PERIOD :blink:

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Like I said in the first place .

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE ! PERIOD :blink:/>

 

Well...I never disagreed with that.

 

GG

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We all know what is coming. Several people I know who wouldn't normally take this position are asking about the need to ban assault weapons and large capacity mags.

We all know this won't stop crime but the people on the fence may be willing to follow the anti-gun crowd because of what has been happening.

I live in CA. We already have some of these bans in place and while that are stupid and a pain, we are still able to get most of the guns we want. But from what I am hearing, the "new" ban may cut off many types that are legal here today and certainly bad many that are legal for the rest of you.

 

So what about this, maybe the pro-gun organizations should come out with some reasonable ideas, like making sure your guns are locked up and out of the hands of the unintended. Is a 10 round limit reasonable? Not to us, but would it prevent them from taking away certain guns altogether?

 

I don't know what the answer is or what we could tolerate, and I agree with everyone here that I have a right to own firearms, but remember, the rights we have today could be lost with the wrong vote so maybe the smart thing is to go on the attack and not keep saying we have a right to this, causing them to try and change that right. Maybe we are better off taking the high road and trying to come up with solutions so the people on the fence look at gun owners as the good guys and not the bad guys they are going to try and make us out to be.

 

I don't own an AR-15, not because I don't like them, I just never bought one. But I want to be able to if I ever decide thats what I want. If we don't become proactive, we will lose that choice. I am hearing Feinstein, Sorry, she is the fault of my stupid state) is said to want to ban assault weapons and confiscate them. Thats a lot of money to lose.

 

I hope this doesn't anger anyone or make you think I am giving in, I am not. But if we sit and wait, we may lose it all.

 

We all belong to some shooting organization, SASS, NRA, who knows. After the emotion has died down a bit, we need to step up and try to offer solutions that we all can live with. Just saying it is our right will just gets the people on the fence to agree to change that right. I wish I was born 50 years earlier before the world lost its mind.

 

This is meant to open a dialog of a possible solution, so please don't run out and get a rope... :-)

Thanks for looking at another thought.

BB

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BB:

 

no rope from me.

 

but I'm thinking that if anyone goes after our 2nd Ad. rights, then the whole country loses because there will be factions of resistance. And no-one wins in those situations.

 

Why does everyone (on TV) seem to avoid the subject of arming our school administrators and teachers? All these Puke Faces that cause all this damage always feed off the unprotected.

 

Obama little speech this evening was so contradictory. He talked of the value of life that was lost with those children yet he and abunch of our politicians care nothing about the unborn innocent that are slaughtered/murdered everyday under the banner of 'Legal Abortion'.

 

Until this country (its political law makers) starts valuing the lives of the unborn, how do you expect crazies to value the lives of the living?

 

Obama stated that its time to do something about all this killing. I agree.

 

But HE and his liberal cronies are the ones who spent 2 years adopting 'Obamacare'. If they REALLY CARED, they would have addressed these problems along time ago. They spend more time working on legislation that outlaws school prayer and legalizes abortion. Yet, they rush to the cameras and tell everyone to Pray for the victims and tell everyone about the value of little children. And they wonder WHY we don't trust them!

 

They don't want LEO's in our schools until after tragedy strikes. They don't want teachers to be properly trained and armed. They don't want to spend money on security unless its for themselves.

 

They tell us the money isn't there to hire more LEO's. Yet they help fund the building of mosque in the name of brotherly love.

 

They wonder where all this immorality is coming from yet they glorify a sitting President that has an extramarital affair.

They wonder where all this immorality is coming from yet they hold hands and sing Cum By Ya (sp) with perverts in congress.

 

BIG EDIT: and they wonder where all this immorality is coming from yet we have an active Attorney General who's an accessory to murder of a LEO (Fast and Furious) and is granted Executive Privileges from giving Congress any information about it. GO FIGURE!

 

And if anyone thinks you can trust them 'just to take assualt weapons and hi-cap magazines, then I got bridge in New York I would like to sale them...cheap!

 

 

..........Widder

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Nancy Polosi is already stirring the pot and the fire and will introduce anti-"assault rifle" legislation & heaven knows what else! We'd better be careful that the magazine limit doesn't include our fixed-magazine tubular magazine rifles that have more than 10 round capacity. This already happened once! Fortunately, we were able to get them exempted. It is alleged that the mother of the perp owned a "Henry Repeating rifle", which was not part of the massacre. But it is sure to catch the notice of the anti's. No detail was offered as to whether the "Henry" was one of the modern guns made by the present-day Henry Repeating Arms Company (or whatever they are officially titled), or a replica of the original M1860 or even an original M1860 Henry.

 

Would that these zealots for "gun control" would pay half-as-much attention to the medical aspects of such crimes, and how to prevent these problems...if, indeed, they can be prevented.

 

May God give comfort to the berieved of this horrible crime, and grant them and us all, Peace! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless and save these United States of America! :FlagAm:

 

Your Pard,

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The only way things change is the way it happens now: At the state level. If a state wants the restrictions, they are free to do so. That's why NY, NJ and others have laws different than Indiana and are the reasons I'd never bring an AR near their states.

 

National solutions probably won't get off the ground for any bans. Not enough enthusiasm from Democratic gun owners, for starters.

 

Closing the gun control loophole to require all private party sales at gun shows to fill out 4473's and have a background check? Maybe...but that wouldn't have stopped this shooter.

 

The old 'assault' weapons ban was so porous you could drive a truck through it. Feinstein is proposing the same ban. It accomplishes very little other than to raise the fair market value of the AR that I own.

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The only way things change is the way it happens now: At the state level. If a state wants the restrictions, they are free to do so. That's why NY, NJ and others have laws different than Indiana and are the reasons I'd never bring an AR near their states.

 

National solutions probably won't get off the ground for any bans. Not enough enthusiasm from Democratic gun owners, for starters.

 

Closing the gun control loophole to require all private party sales at gun shows to fill out 4473's and have a background check? Maybe...but that wouldn't have stopped this shooter.

 

The old 'assault' weapons ban was so porous you could drive a truck through it. Feinstein is proposing the same ban. It accomplishes very little other than to raise the fair market value of the AR that I own.

 

 

 

+1

 

:) Rye

 

 

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The only way things change is the way it happens now: At the state level. If a state wants the restrictions, they are free to do so. That's why NY, NJ and others have laws different than Indiana and are the reasons I'd never bring an AR near their states.

 

National solutions probably won't get off the ground for any bans. Not enough enthusiasm from Democratic gun owners, for starters.

 

Closing the gun control loophole to require all private party sales at gun shows to fill out 4473's and have a background check? Maybe...but that wouldn't have stopped this shooter.

 

The old 'assault' weapons ban was so porous you could drive a truck through it. Feinstein is proposing the same ban. It accomplishes very little other than to raise the fair market value of the AR that I own.

 

+2

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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Three million conservative voters abstained in the last election because Romney was not pure enough for them. They threw the election over to the marxist gang in power so as to spite the GOP. Look where that got us now.

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I am no conspiracy theorist and I certainly don't believe that anyone would have wanted this tragedy to happen. It is, however, probably the perfect catalyst for changing gun laws. Those of us who see the problem lies with the perpertrator and not with the tools will likely be drowned out by the those who will be anguishing for simple solutions.

 

Banning 'nasty' guns is a simple solution, even it it will not change anything. These types of crimes will still happen. The weapon of choice will just change. It will be semi-automatic pistols, or shotguns, or pipe bombs, or swords, or pickup trucks. These are crimes commited by angry, mentally disturbed people. They will find a way to lash out.

 

The national discussion needs to be delayed until the heat of the moment has passed. Until the families, friends, and the nation have had a time to grieve. Until cooler heads prevail and meaningful discussion, compromise, and accomodations can be reached.

 

I do not think any meaningful and lasting improvement will come until both sides agree that the treatment of the mentally ill is disgrace in this country and a national issue. We need to deal with it an not sweep it under the carpet. Back when states and the federal goverment had the budget, no one had heard of 'the homeless' and mass killings just didn't happen. We need to think of mental health treatment like we do fire suppression systems - a wholistic solution that is evidenced by the lack of disaster.

 

We also need to be prepared to 'give' on some reasonable 'restrictions', after much discussion on the subject and on proper and effective safeguards. Instant background checks, pre-authorized eligibility, and safety/proficiency certificates.

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The only way things change is the way it happens now: At the state level. If a state wants the restrictions, they are free to do so. That's why NY, NJ and others have laws different than Indiana and are the reasons I'd never bring an AR near their states.

 

National solutions probably won't get off the ground for any bans. Not enough enthusiasm from Democratic gun owners, for starters.

 

Closing the gun control loophole to require all private party sales at gun shows to fill out 4473's and have a background check? Maybe...but that wouldn't have stopped this shooter.

 

The old 'assault' weapons ban was so porous you could drive a truck through it. Feinstein is proposing the same ban. It accomplishes very little other than to raise the fair market value of the AR that I own.

Amen Brother !

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Why is it that ANYONE thinks the GOVERNMENT has the right to tell us IF we have the right to protect ourselves or loved ones? Guns have been around much longer than mass shootings and especially school shootings. Guns haven't gotten any "more deadly" or efficient since WWI so that's been a constant.

 

What has changed is society and that issue is much harder to accept and repair. IMO when you make gun free zones and COWARDS like these are sure they will have no opposition in these areas you play right into their hands. Which is the reason work places, malls, schools, etc make perfect targets for these spineless wackjobs and why the trend is growing. Add to that it gives these deranged folks national attention for days on end and you put more fuel on the fire. Then we make excuses for their horrible deeds and spend millions on trails rather than punish them for the acts they chose to commit.

 

Even IF you could wave a magic wand and take every gun out of the US the guns would still show up from other countries and ONLY crooks would have them.......yeah that will make a much better and safer society. We banned alcohol in the 20's......pot in the 60's and harder drugs have always been illegal......and how’s that working for America? Are we drug free yet?

 

It's much easier to stick your head in the sand than deal with tough issues (like the decay of our society) and blame inanimate objects instead of the folks that misuse them......The problem with our Country is we have no leadership and unfortunately citizens that are too blind to see that, simply don't care or God forbid agree with the path we are on. Add to that we have a media and Government that wants to try to take away our 2nd amendment rights…....well WE THE PEOPLE MUST STAY STRONG……that’s exactly why the 2nd amendment is in place.

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Why is it that ANYONE thinks the GOVERNMENT has the right to tell us IF we have the right to protect ourselves or loved ones? Guns have been around much longer than mass shootings and especially school shootings. Guns haven't gotten any "more deadly" or efficient since WWI so that's been a constant.

 

What has changed is society and that issue is much harder to accept and repair. IMO when you make gun free zones and COWARDS like these are sure they will have no opposition in these areas you play right into their hands. Which is the reason work places, malls, schools, etc make perfect targets for these spineless wackjobs and why the trend is growing. Add to that it gives these deranged folks national attention for days on end and you put more fuel on the fire. Then we make excuses for their horrible deeds and spend millions on trails rather than punish them for the acts they chose to commit.

 

Even IF you could wave a magic wand and take every gun out of the US the guns would still show up from other countries and ONLY crooks would have them.......yeah that will make a much better and safer society. We banned alcohol in the 20's......pot in the 60's and harder drugs have always been illegal......and how's that working for America? Are we drug free yet?

 

It's much easier to stick your head in the sand than deal with tough issues (like the decay of our society) and blame inanimate objects instead of the folks that misuse them......The problem with our Country is we have no leadership and unfortunately citizens that are too blind to see that, simply don't care or God forbid agree with the path we are on. Add to that we have a media and Government that wants to try to take away our 2nd amendment rights…....well WE THE PEOPLE MUST STAY STRONG……that's exactly why the 2nd amendment is in place.

 

100%

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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Closing the so-called Gun Show loophole is basically eliminating person to person sales. Good luck trying to enforce a sale between me and my brother-in-law, or anyone else. Once they figure out that can't be enforced, they will have to enact some new draconian law to force registration.

 

It seems to me that any new gun laws violates the 2nd Amendment, and illegal. Why don't they push for an Amendment to the Constitution of their own and get rid of or change the 2nd? 2/3 in both houses of Congress and 3/4 of the State legislatures. Why? Because they don't have the support to do it that way. Change the Constitution or shut the H@** up.

 

T.H. O'Sullivan

Black Mesa Ranch

New Mexico

:FlagAm:/>

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Undoubtedly some restrictions are going to come out of this event. The most significant change may come to those who take mood-altering prescriptions or have a person with emotional/psychological problems in the home.

The proposal is likely to be that doctors will be required to report patients to the FBI who are under their care for psychological problems or who take anti-depressants, bi-polar medication or anti-psychotics. Those individuals will be refused permission to purchase or continue to own firearms.

The anti's want a brave new world and they are likely to get more than they bargained for. Forget doctor/patient confidentiality. Your local gun shop is going to know that your family has 'issues'.

In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?

Even the people who hate guns will be reported.

A brave new world.

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Undoubtedly some restrictions are going to come out of this event. The most significant change may come to those who take mood-altering prescriptions or have a person with emotional/psychological problems in the home.

The proposal is likely to be that doctors will be required to report patients to the FBI who are under their care for psychological problems or who take anti-depressants, bi-polar medication or anti-psychotics. Those individuals will be refused permission to purchase or continue to own firearms.

The anti's want a brave new world and they are likely to get more than they bargained for. Forget doctor/patient confidentiality. Your local gun shop is going to know that your family has 'issues'.

In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?

Even the people who hate guns will be reported.

A brave new world.

 

Scary thought...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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Undoubtedly some restrictions are going to come out of this event. The most significant change may come to those who take mood-altering prescriptions or have a person with emotional/psychological problems in the home.

The proposal is likely to be that doctors will be required to report patients to the FBI who are under their care for psychological problems or who take anti-depressants, bi-polar medication or anti-psychotics. Those individuals will be refused permission to purchase or continue to own firearms.

The anti's want a brave new world and they are likely to get more than they bargained for. Forget doctor/patient confidentiality. Your local gun shop is going to know that your family has 'issues'.

In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?

Even the people who hate guns will be reported.

A brave new world.

I have a gut feeling that the biggest change will be in new gun laws, both at the state and fed level. Obama is a lame duck with an agenda and I think there will be only lip service paid t mental health reform.

I become more pessimistic each day and I'm normaly a glass half full kind of guy. I sure hope I'm wrong.

Maybe it's the crappy weather.

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I have a gut feeling that the biggest change will be in new gun laws, both at the state and fed level. Obama is a lame duck with an agenda and I think there will be only lip service paid t mental health reform.

I become more pessimistic each day and I'm normaly a glass half full kind of guy. I sure hope I'm wrong.

Maybe it's the crappy weather.

 

 

+1 in hoping your wrong too ;)/>

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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Undoubtedly some restrictions are going to come out of this event. The most significant change may come to those who take mood-altering prescriptions or have a person with emotional/psychological problems in the home.

The proposal is likely to be that doctors will be required to report patients to the FBI who are under their care for psychological problems or who take anti-depressants, bi-polar medication or anti-psychotics. Those individuals will be refused permission to purchase or continue to own firearms.

The anti's want a brave new world and they are likely to get more than they bargained for. Forget doctor/patient confidentiality. Your local gun shop is going to know that your family has 'issues'.

In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?

Even the people who hate guns will be reported.

A brave new world.

 

This may be scary, but I am all for it. Doctor-patient confidentiality is not a law, is a self imposed code of behaviour. One thing to think about to stike down "Doctor-patient confidentiality" is that did you notice how much of the recent events include searchs on facebook and blogs posted by the pers? Its all out in the open anyway these days.

 

We put pedofiles up on the web for people to identify. At least we can advise those who sell firearms not to sell to disturbed people. Every one of the questions on the form we fill out to buy a gun should be verifiable by the background check, especially mental/drug use status.

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This may be scary, but I am all for it. Doctor-patient confidentiality is not a law, is a self imposed code of behaviour. One thing to think about to stike down "Doctor-patient confidentiality" is that did you notice how much of the recent events include searchs on facebook and blogs posted by the pers? Its all out in the open anyway these days.

 

We put pedofiles up on the web for people to identify. At least we can advise those who sell firearms not to sell to disturbed people. Every one of the questions on the form we fill out to buy a gun should be verifiable by the background check, especially mental/drug use status.

 

Your all for this? - "In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?"

 

No comment...:mellow:/>

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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Your all for this? - "In addition, what is to stop the expansion of the psych reporting to a hotline so your neighbor can report that they saw you drunk, or smoking grass. Or you exhibited bizarre behavior. You may not have comitted a crime, but what does it take to get on a psych watch list and prevent you from ever buying a firearm in the future?"

 

No comment...:mellow:/>/>

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>/>

 

IIRC, a hot line something like this already exists in NJ.

 

Anyway, stay publicly sober, don't do or keep drugs, choose your firends wisely, keep peace with your neighbor. :rolleyes: And best of all, don't act wierd.

 

BTW, did you know that people in the FBI are inspected in such a way? I had an FBI agent living close by for a number of years and I would get a visit from a very nice inspector who would ask such personal questions about my neighbor every 5 years like clock work.

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I have a gut feeling that the biggest change will be in new gun laws, both at the state and fed level. Obama is a lame duck with an agenda and I think there will be only lip service paid t mental health reform.

I become more pessimistic each day and I'm normaly a glass half full kind of guy. I sure hope I'm wrong.

Maybe it's the crappy weather.

+1... and the weather is unseasonbly nice here in the Black Hills. My bet is that what will come out of this is (1) mental profiling/ proof required to purchase or like domestic violence a reason to deny that must be challenged. (2) total closing of the private sale loophole in gun sales nationwide; all sales through an FFL (3) Mag restrictions right up to and including either license requirements for possession and/or some kind of criminlaizing of possession.

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IIRC, a hot line something like this already exists in NJ.

 

Anyway, stay publicly sober, don't do or keep drugs, choose your firends wisely, keep peace with your neighbor. :rolleyes:/> And best of all, don't act wierd.

 

BTW, did you know that people in the FBI are inspected in such a way? I had an FBI agent living close by for a number of years and I would get a visit from a very nice inspector who would ask such personal questions about my neighbor every 5 years like clock work.

 

Uh oh - I'm in trouble....

 

 

:D/>

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

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And best of all, don't act wierd.

 

Who's acting? ;)

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The only problem is any law you make ,Only affects the law abiding citizen .

 

The criminal dont obied by the laws .

 

So NOTHING changes unless we train and arm citizens ,

And allow them to carry with NO restrictions !

 

It would not have saved all the lives, But it may have saved some of the lives !

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The local gun shop is selling so many AR rifle's and Hi Cap pistole's.

That they are giving numbers to the customers as they come threw the door .

 

The owner told me they are selling a gun every 30 seconds .

 

The only thing I see happing is , the law abiding citizen will have a harder time getting the new fire arm he or she wonts .

 

The criminal dont need to worry about the new laws that will be passed .

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Every local shop around this part has sold out of AR's and Ak's .

So it dont look like the ban is going to stop any thing but make it harder for good people to git firearms . :angry:

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