Dungannon Gunner Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Is a Winchester 30-30 mod 94 legal for SASS long range shoots? If yes, am I allowed to shoot jacketed AMMO? If no, then where can I buy SASS legal AMMO? Thanks in advance for the assit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 From da book: Regardless of category or caliber, bullets used in long range and precision rifle matches must be made of pure lead or lead alloy having a plain base, gas checked, or paper patched configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Your 30/30 will do for 200 yds or less--several shooters here useing them---jacketed bullets are a big no no----several outfits make useable ammo--Ten x--black hills--& others (if ya don't reload)--check out Midway Usa .com under cowboy ammonition---Brownells should have em--Ten x or Black Hills Ammo will give ya info bout local dealers of their products!!! WHAT? I've used mine often enough out to 400 yards... and held my own... Even won a few times! Puttin' such NEGATIVE thoughts in folks' heads. Tsk! Tsk! Checkout Buffalo Arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Dancer,SASS #17672 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Griff: You are absolutely right. With a decent set of sights and reasonable ammunition, 400 yards is not insurmountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I too have many times won a long range shoot with a Winchester '94 in 30-30. Sometimes out to 4 hundred yards. If you know your sights and bullet drop and if the Gods are smiling on you, you can do it. It helps if you do your part on squeezing the trigger. I love to see non-belivers watch, as you make the GONG ring time after time. Just sayin' Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Dancer,SASS #17672 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Big Jake: I know you are a Marine, and I suspect you may have been a sniper also. You are also right about the 30-30. Semper Fi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Big Jake: I know you are a Marine, and I suspect you may have been a sniper also. You are also right about the 30-30. Semper Fi! Yes sir to that. I was an 8541 Scout Sniper with the US Marine Corps 1969-1972. Vietnam 1970-'71. Before that I was a Squirrel killer and rabbit hunter par excellence in the hills around San Jose Calif. You can run, but you'll only Die tired. Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Perfectly legal for long range, except in the BP categories. Lie Jake sez, knowing your rifle is a big part of making a long range hit. Even with a 30-30 having a drop of 10 to 12 feet at 500 yards, if you can figure the hold-over ringing the steel could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I would recommend Laser Cast bullets for the 30-30. THey are extremely hard and with their Gas Checked bullets will not lead your barrel. They provide a 170 gr. flat point gas checked bullet. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Big Al #3195 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If you can't find ammo to your liking, perhaps you can find some one to load some for you... There are lots of fine bullet makers out there. You may want to consider the 173 grain bullets with gas checks on them because they can be pushed a bit faster with out the leading problems. As for powders, I recommend Accurate 5744 very highly to start with. Just follow the loading manuals and you can't go wrong with it.... Afterall, that is my load of choice and I too can hit out to 400 yards with it and have used it to hit the 1000 yard buffalo at the NRA Whittington Center in New Mexico a few years ago. It took a bit to get there but, it definitely was a hit.... Respectfully, Co Big Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Perfectly legal for long range, except in the BP categories.Lie Jake sez, knowing your rifle is a big part of making a long range hit. Even with a 30-30 having a drop of 10 to 12 feet at 500 yards, if you can figure the hold-over ringing the steel could be done. I always have to chuckle when folks talk about the amount of drop that a .30-30 has at extended ranges... and in the next breath extoll the virtues of either a .38-55 and .45-70 for those and even longer ranges. HOw you load yours is your own business... but mine are near factory velocities. DROP ain't the problem. Due to it's much lighter bullet weight, it's buckin' the wind. If you want a great long range cartridge... think .32-40! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Is there a website "calculator" that will show the bullet drop calculation if you input the powder type and load and the bullet weight and shape? That would be a cool thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Tail Bob Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Is there a website "calculator" that will show the bullet drop calculation if you input the powder type and load and the bullet weight and shape? That would be a cool thing! Probably not exactly what you're looking for, but Remington has an on-line ballistic "calculator" http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/ballistics.aspx. From a physics viewpoint, drop depends on muzzle velocity (which would depend on powder amount and type, but its the muzzle velocity that is the actual factor), bullet aerodynamics, and bullet mass. Of the three, bullet aerodynamics would be the one that's difficult to determine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 One more 30-30 fan here. I have a Browning High Wall in 30-30 that works very well at 300yd. Haven't shot it any further than that, but expect 500 would be within reason to hit a 2' square plate. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 This might sound a bit contradictory, but... ... 2 MOA at 500 yards with the right set up is easily attainable, but hitting a 2' plate at 500 yards is VERY difficult for most of us, simply because it's so difficult to see and so tiny in the selected insert. I have a 42" round plate hanging on an 8' square backing with the plate painted black and the backing white, which makes it very easy to see and large enough to easily center in the sight, leading to some pretty unbelievable groups at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Probably not exactly what you're looking for, but Remington has an on-line ballistic "calculator" http://www.remington...allistics.aspx. From a physics viewpoint, drop depends on muzzle velocity (which would depend on powder amount and type, but its the muzzle velocity that is the actual factor), bullet aerodynamics, and bullet mass. Of the three, bullet aerodynamics would be the one that's difficult to determine. You'd have to be able to put the twist of the barrel and barrel length in the equation as well in order to get the velocity out of the barrel. I'd guess that the twist would also have an effect on the aerodynamic performance of the round as well. I was hoping for some type of calculator where I could at least have a starting point other than my normal SWAG method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 This might sound a bit contradictory, but... ... 2 MOA at 500 yards with the right set up is easily attainable, but hitting a 2' plate at 500 yards is VERY difficult for most of us, simply because it's so difficult to see and so tiny in the selected insert. I have a 42" round plate hanging on an 8' square backing with the plate painted black and the backing white, which makes it very easy to see and large enough to easily center in the sight, leading to some pretty unbelievable groups at times. Well, I may not be able to do it, but I was extrapolating from 6" groups at 300yd. It would indeed take a steady hand and a good spotter to help with the wind. It's only a 175gr projectile. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Is there a website "calculator" that will show the bullet drop calculation if you input the powder type and load and the bullet weight and shape? That would be a cool thing! Nope !!! And it wouldn't work as the very same load in two different guns that appear the same on the outside ,, ie. same barrel lenght, same chamber dimentions ... Can still have velocity differences of 20% .... Making such a Chart next to useless ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I have two 94s one with a 20 inch barrel and the other with a 26 inch barrel ,,, And the shorter barreled gun beats the longer barreled gun by 2Fps. using the same load .... Both guns really like this load and shoot it well,it is not a light load ,,,,,,, But it is just faster in the shorter gun .... So the often Quoted rule of gaining 30 feet per second per inch of barrel is Wrong again.... Because if that generallity rule was used it would lead you ta thinking the longer barreled gun would be 180 Fps. faster than the 20 incher, and not 2 feet per second slower ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I always have to chuckle when folks talk about the amount of drop that a .30-30 has at extended ranges... and in the next breath extoll the virtues of either a .38-55 and .45-70 for those and even longer ranges. HOw you load yours is your own business... but mine are near factory velocities. DROP ain't the problem. Due to it's much lighter bullet weight, it's buckin' the wind. If you want a great long range cartridge... think .32-40! Not comparing anything Griff, just pointing out that a 500 yard shot is less forgiving of error than a 200 yard shot. The drop on a 45-70 is 25 feet at that distance. Couldn't find any similar data for the 32-40, so can't speak to its performance at 500. Considering that 30-30 and 32-40 both use bullets of around 165 grains at similar velocities, I wouldn't expect too much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash LaRue Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 One more 30-30 fan here. I have a Browning High Wall in 30-30 that works very well at 300yd. Haven't shot it any further than that, but expect 500 would be within reason to hit a 2' square plate. CR I can't even see a 2 ft square plate at 500 yds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 We have an elderstatesman who hits an 18" buffalo offhand at about 275yd when we add a Quigly element! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If no, then where can I buy SASS legal AMMO? Gunner, the no was covered - now let's move on to the 'buy'? How's your lead bullet reloading skills? And if you don't have naked brass, primers, powder and dies - have another caliber choice? Good store bought bullet source: http://gardnerscache.com/lead_rifle_bullets.html Might want to start with the 190 LRN. Send them an email and you'll most likely get a loading data reply for your order. Otherwise, you'll need a good loading reference manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungannon Gunner Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thanks to all the pards! My 30-30 is free and clear. A Sharps would set back my bank account. I think I will give this 30-30 a try for a while. Worse thing that can happen is that I miss the target and still have a good time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Here's a bullet that I'll testing next month ... it's the old Ideal 311413 'Squibb', 169gr. Per the 1949 Ideal Handbook - "Perhaps the most accurate gas-check bullet yet produced. Excellent for target practice up to 600 yards." http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Bullets/DSC00434.jpg http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Bullets/IMGP1475.jpg Of course, I'll be single round loading it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I have two 94s one with a 20 inch barrel and the other with a 26 inch barrel ,,, And the shorter barreled gun beats the longer barreled gun by 2Fps. using the same load .... Both guns really like this load and shoot it well,it is not a light load ,,,,,,, But it is just faster in the shorter gun .... So the often Quoted rule of gaining 30 feet per second per inch of barrel is Wrong again.... Because if that generallity rule was used it would lead you ta thinking the longer barreled gun would be 180 Fps. faster than the 20 incher, and not 2 feet per second slower ... Jabez Cowboy Try using a slightly slower powder to increase the time of burn... should give higher velocities in that longer barrel. Just be cautious on your peak pressure attained. In shorter barrels that slower powder might be spittin' unburned powder, not getting peak performance. Conversely in a longer barrel a faster powder might run out of gas before the bukket reaches the muzzle. If you're using RE7 or 3031, try some RE15. I have a can to test, just haven't had time to see if the results in my guns equal what others report. I have multiple .30-30s in 16", 20" & 26" barrel lengths; and prefer to keep it to one load that works in 'em all! I'm also thinkin' of gettin' a can of the Leverevolution powder. Either that or IMR's 8028XBR might just be the holy graile for the cartridge. Capt Cahill, just an obsevation, ok... a snarky one, but... just sayin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Griff, there aren't many powders that have gone down the bores as has 4759! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 With decent sights the drop really is the least of ones worries. The wind can play serious havoc with a reasonably light bullet going pretty slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Griff, there aren't many powders that have gone down the bores as has 4759! Aye, but some experimentin'isn't a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 3031 has been a winner for me in many calibers. 175grgc from Bonus Bullets was the best one out there (in my Highwall). I think someone else has their molds and taken over. I'll check tonight to see if I have that info. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Gardner Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 My 30-30 is 49 years old and still can shoot .5 MOA at 100 yd. with a great set of sights it is a winner my bullets only fly at about 1400 fps. that is slow but can get the job done and you can shoot it fast and get back on target fast. you have to send a lot of time with the load and the rifle to under stand it. GK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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