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Loading Table Officer duties


Widder, SASS #59054

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I go to some clubs that use a LTO and some that don't. Fortunately, I haven't run into a LTO Nazi yet. If I ever do run into one, I will just ignore those requests that are ridiculous or "nanny-ish", IMO. I, like many others here, have a certain LT routine. One part of it includes how I load my guns and which gun I load first. I don't like to get out of my zone of concentration at the LT and needless requests fall into that category. Were someone to ask me to spin my cylinders or work the action of my long gun to suit thier need for self-importance, I will politely decline. Should someone get vocal about my decline, I will take a trip to the match director. Should someone touch my guns while I'm loading them, they wouldn't like the results.

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Sorry Kid,

 

I'm in the no loading blocks camp too. I could run the timer, count, pick up brass, man the ULT...instead of moving ammo from one place (neatly stacked in rows of five) to another. To those of you who don't like us who take our ammo boxes to the LT, I have a nice little routine, which really worked well when I could not carry two guns at a time. I carry my rifle and ammo box (it has 20 rifle and 20 pistol in it) to the LT. I carry my ammo box back to the cart and carry my SG to the LT. If there is a LTO, he can just as easily see what I did by looking at what is left in the box as he can by looking at your loading strip. :unsure:

 

I'm "fine with" you doing it your way. Just allow me to do it my way.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Not a problem Allie Mo. At least with ammo boxes it's easy to keep track of the rounds loaded. What I have a problem with is ammo brought to the loading table in a sack, or in a kerchief, or loaded from the belt. To me that's just asking for trouble.

 

You however have misjudged what I said. I do not even attempt to tell anyone how to do it. Frankly, I really don't care. It's their scores that are affected if they do it wrong, not mine. So long as they have hammers down on empty chambers when going to the line, That's all the interest I have in it.

 

Like you said, "I'm fine with you doing it your way". My statement was simply my personal opinion, and a proven method, nothing more.

 

RBK

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Well,

 

We have two questions to answer.

 

#1 Is there a need for a designated LTO or should each & every shooter be autonomous?

 

#2 If #1 is needed,does the function & method need more clarity?

 

Sure would like to know which regions utilize LTO's and which don't.How about the utilization at state,regional, Winter Range & EOT matches?

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

P.S. I don't need no stinkin loading blocks. :rolleyes:

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Different strokes for different folks. To me, the loading strip is a great invention. I never understood carrying 100 rounds of ammo and then carrying 80 back. Too many trips for fat ole lazy me. Loops, hankies, purple bags and especially strips are much better than that back and forth business.

 

And those club-provided mandatory loading blocks you have to fill out of your already-properly-filled-and-counted strip are the height of inanity. Any club requiring those should prominently state so on their web-site so the sane can stay away.

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lol---LOL

do you require that yer

Loading table officer wear a catchers' mit?.?.? :lol::lol::lol:

I think the loading table officers must apply some sort of glue to keep the pistols in the holsters hence no dropped guns.

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What's the big deal.

 

I have been shooting SASS for 15 years and never found the LTO to be a big deal. The only problem I ever had was at a club in Texas (I won't name it) where the members loaded at their trucks and carried their loaded firearms to the firing line ( I left after one stage).

 

At our local clubs, the protocol when you get to the firing line is to show that your shotgun is empty (rack that 97), rack your rifle couple of times and lower the hammer, show an empty chamber on your loaded pistols and try to show the ten (or whatever) rounds you are going to load in your rifle. We just do that automatically and there is never a problem.

 

While I agree that a LTO should not touch your weapons, in 15 years I have never seen that happen. The LTO is your friend, trying to help you avoid a costly or even dangerous problem. Over the years I have served as an LTO for some of the top shooters in the country (including old Widder) and I have never heard one of them complain. In fact, in my experience, they go automatically go through the protocol I stated above and all I have to do is give them a thumbs up when they have demonstrated that there is no round under the hammers of their pistols.

 

The main rules of this game are BE SAFE and HAVE FUN, in that order because an unsafe environment is NO FUN.

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Lets see...

 

Finger off trigger...check

Muzzel pointed in safe direction...check

 

Seems like all is okie dokie here...so who cares if ya carry yer rounds shoved up yer nose or in a block?

 

And we load GUNS, not WEAPONS. We shoot targets and they are not shooting back...so the GUNS are not being used as WEAPONS.

 

OY!!!

 

Have a nice day :mellow:

 

:FlagAm:

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I agree with Miss Allie, I know how to count and I have my system and believe it or not it works. I also don't like anyone looking over my shoulder checking what I am doing so I am for NO LTO.

 

But you have to admit you look just a little bit funny pawing the ground 10 times while loading yer rifle. :P

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Yeah, well, thankfully rifles only hold ten, or a lotta folks would be taking their boots off.....

 

It took a minor safety to find out that my 1866 Carbine will, in fact, hold 11.

 

I like to have someone at the loading table, whether it be a designated officer, the shooter ahead or the shooter behind verify "hammer down on an EMPTY chamber". I've seen too many "hammer down on a live one". I don't care about the penalties, I just don't want to see a dropped gun hurt someone.

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But you have to admit you look just a little bit funny pawing the ground 10 times while loading yer rifle. :P

 

 

I may look funny but it is good for a lot of styling points, isn't that what we are here for styling points ??? :D

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After the stage briefing and before going to the LT, I pre-count my rounds out into my little bag I carry for the purpose, and at the LT, I empty the sack and count them again as I load them. Then I stuff the sack behind my belt where it stays for the shoot. At the ULT, I use that same bag to hold the brass, dumping them into an empty jar I carry in my cart for them.

 

The bag makes it all work, like a simple reticule, or something.

 

If I used a block, I wouldn't be able to carry it with me very well for the shoot, and I'd have to take it back to my cart, and it wouldn't serve to catch my brass at the end. :)

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I keep a hole in the toe of one boot just in case there is a reload. :blink::blush:

:lol: :lol: :lol: I would take that serious if I could count past 10

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That's my motto -- if ya can't shoot good, at least look good. :wacko: :wacko:

 

When I bring my Brass shotgun shells to a shoot the people I shoot with know I am there for styling points and major fun factor and they also know they might have to take there boots off to count my misses. Had 1 TO say next shooter saw me just after I finished pawing the ground, he seen my brass shell, you could see him shaking his head and hear him muttering oh s**t.

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Yeah, well, thankfully rifles only hold ten, or a lotta folks would be taking their boots off.....

 

I have a many rifles that hold more-than ten

sure gladd I have many pairs of boots

 

what iffen I only had nine toes?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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There are some good reasons to have a loading table officer,I was working a match and after loading his pistols the shooter held the gun up so I could see it was hammer down on empty chamber and I noticed the grip frame was about ready to fall off because the screws were just about all the way out. I had him unload the pistol and went and got a screwdriver set so He could tighten the screws up. If he had shot the pistol bad things would have happened. He was a fairly new shooter and didn't realize that there was a problem. I have seen other things like this happen(Loose screws,Cylinder pin not seated) before and it never hurts to have an extra pair of eyes checking things out.

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There are some good reasons to have a loading table officer,I was working a match and after loading his pistols the shooter held the gun up so I could see it was hammer down on empty chamber and I noticed the grip frame was about ready to fall off because the screws were just about all the way out.

 

Yeah, but the real question is would he have gotten a MDQ when the top portion of the pistol came loose and fell off while he still held the grip in his hand? :lol:

 

....sorry, but this thread has gone on so long, I couldn't help but to put a little humor back in the air..... :)

 

Chick

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Never shot at a club that even uses a dedicated LTO. Not even Winter Range keeps one there all the time. Mainly just to help count rounds occasionally.

 

I suppose that my issue would be consistency. If at any match an LTO is going to be carefully inspecting your pistols and long guns when arriving at the table, then it MUST be done the same for every competitor at every stage no exceptions. Otherwise you'll have some shooters caught for penalty and others not at total random. That's not even remotely ok as accusations will fly of fairness and favoritism to some posses or shooters.

 

Generally it's just the people next to you helping to watch out for each other. Hammers down on empty, proper number in the rifle, etc.

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There are some good reasons to have a loading table officer,I was working a match and after loading his pistols the shooter held the gun up so I could see it was hammer down on empty chamber and I noticed the grip frame was about ready to fall off because the screws were just about all the way out. I had him unload the pistol and went and got a screwdriver set so He could tighten the screws up. If he had shot the pistol bad things would have happened. He was a fairly new shooter and didn't realize that there was a problem. I have seen other things like this happen(Loose screws,Cylinder pin not seated) before and it never hurts to have an extra pair of eyes checking things out.

Just me, personally, myself, it is my opinion that someone who is unaware that his firearm is in that condition should not be allowed to shoot, until they can demonstrate a higher level of competence. Just my opinion.

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Just me, personally, myself, it is my opinion that someone who is unaware that his firearm is in that condition should not be allowed to shoot, until they can demonstrate a higher level of competence. Just my opinion.

Well I guess I am just incompetent. Once I was shooting a stage and when I drew one pistol the pistol grips came off in my hand, so I let them fall to the ground and shot the pistol without grip panels. Wanted to keep my clean match going. Seriously how do you determine one's competence by whether they have a loose screw on their gun or not. Many of us that have been shooting a while have had gun failures due to a loose screw, just ask most Marlin shooters. Anyone that feels that a loose screw ='s an incompetent shooter might be accused of also having a loose screw somewhere. :rolleyes:

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Well I guess I am just incompetent. Once I was shooting a stage and when I drew one pistol the pistol grips came off in my hand, so I let them fall to the ground and shot the pistol without grip panels. Wanted to keep my clean match going. Seriously how do you determine one's competence by whether they have a loose screw on their gun or not. Many of us that have been shooting a while have had gun failures due to a loose screw, just ask most Marlin shooters. Anyone that feels that a loose screw ='s an incompetent shooter might be accused of also having a loose screw somewhere. :rolleyes:

Well, assuming for the sake of argument it was a SAA clone or Ruger, the grip frame is held on by not one, but five screws. According to what the poster typed, they weren't simply not tight; they were on the verge of falling out, which I doubt happened over the course of a dozen rounds being fired. They were at least loose enough for another party to see. I'm just saying that this should have been noticed during routine maintenance or cleaning. For the shooter's own safety, he needs to be better educated. And again, I was only offering my opinion.

 

EDIT I am not suggesting that " a loose screw ='s an incompetent shooter". Screws come loose. Machines need maintenance. I am suggesting that multiple screws so loose that parts are about to fall off, suggest not necessarily incompetence, but certainly either a low level of competence or a lack of attentiveness.

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Well, assuming for the sake of argument it was a SAA clone or Ruger, the grip frame is held on by not one, but five screws. According to what the poster typed, they weren't simply not tight; they were on the verge of falling out, which I doubt happened over the course of a dozen rounds being fired. They were at least loose enough for another party to see. I'm just saying that this should have been noticed during routine maintenance or cleaning. For the shooter's own safety, he needs to be better educated. And again, I was only offering my opinion.

 

EDIT I am not suggesting that " a loose screw ='s an incompetent shooter". Screws come loose. Machines need maintenance. I am suggesting that multiple screws so loose that parts are about to fall off, suggest not necessarily incompetence, but certainly either a low level of competence or a lack of attentiveness.

When you are in a hole don't dig!

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When you are in a hole don't dig!

What hole am I digging? The man didn't know his gun was coming apart in his hand. I see that as a problem.

 

I am not trying to start a fight, really. But I do not understand your position on this.

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What hole am I digging? The man didn't know his gun was coming apart in his hand. I see that as a problem.

 

I am not trying to start a fight, really. But I do not understand your position on this.

Join SASS and I will explain it more carefully.

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I guess you will have to join, post your SASS number and find out.

Okay, whatever. I was trying to have a rational discussion on a subject which seems pretty important to me, but rather than offer a cogent argument you prefer snarky comments and veiled insults, which behavior is exactly what has made me reluctant to join in the first place. Good day to you.

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If the whole dang grip frame is coming loose...then I agree that the shooter needs to be a bit more aware of the condition of his/her gun.

 

Usually it's simply an ejector rod housing screw or basepin that comes loose.

 

Folks do get a bit defensive when folks that are new to this forum and not a member of SASS start making strong statements...I'm sure you understand.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Whether LTOs are necessary or not, whether you agree with what they ask for or not, they are a part of the organized safety procedures of a match. They can and should inspect equipment for safety purposes and for SASS illegal external modifications, see page ten of the RO1 manual. As for folks who don't think they should count rounds, request a change to be authorized in the RO1 manual which specifically states that it is the LTOs responsibility to count rounds with the shooter to assure that the correct number of rounds is loaded for the stage. Again see page 10 of RO1 loading and unloading.

 

To anyone who has a beef with the safety officers at a local event, they are not there to be your waiter and servant, they are there to provide a procedural level of safety, a yes sir, no mam, and thank you would suffice.

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Whether LTOs are necessary or not, whether you agree with what they ask for or not, they are a part of the organized safety procedures of a match. They can and should inspect equipment for safety purposes and for SASS illegal external modifications, see page ten of the RO1 manual. As for folks who don't think they should count rounds, request a change to be authorized in the RO1 manual which specifically states that it is the LTOs responsibility to count rounds with the shooter to assure that the correct number of rounds is loaded for the stage. Again see page 10 of RO1 loading and unloading.

 

To anyone who has a beef with the safety officers at a local event, they are not there to be your waiter and servant, they are there to provide a procedural level of safety, a yes sir, no mam, and thank you would suffice.

Many clubs and whole states just rebel at nanny state rules and do not use loading table oversight except for new shooters. You do it your way we'll do it our way. My first shoot in a state many years ago, I attempted to show a shooter my pistols to check them and he said if I was not comfortable loading my guns safely by myself, go somewhere to practice doing so and come back when I felt confident doing so. Well stated!

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Many clubs and whole states just rebel at nanny state rules and do not use loading table oversight except for new shooters. You do it your way we'll do it our way. My first shoot in a state many years ago, I attempted to show a shooter my pistols to check them and he said if I was not comfortable loading my guns safely by myself, go somewhere to practice doing so and come back when I felt confident doing so. Well stated!

 

Well governor, I'm not sure about your Nanny state reference, I'm talking about the SASS RO1 manual. My club does not use LTOs either, but should I attend an event that does I'm not going to act like an entitled arrogent drama queen and ignore local safety officers....when in Rome. I may be new to SASS but I am not new to range operations, shooters that think they know better than the club or range safety officers don't last long. Again my point, respect local convention and let designated safety officers do thier jobs. Any know it all drama queen shooter will be known by what they are, and the ROs/RSOs will not loose a wink of sleep over it.

 

[edit: Just to be clear I am referring to those respondents who have voiced such strong opposition and obstinacy to anyone asking for additional inspection at a loading table at a club match that DOES have a LTO.]

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