Plainsman .45-70 load

[OK Dirty Dan]

Not too long ago I purchased an H&R Trapdoor with the intent to shoot it in Plainsman. I haven't had the opportunity to do so yet but I'm signed up for it at Land Run. Therefore, I'm needing to load up some rounds using the American Pioneer Powder I have. I know that I could just load the powder to the bottom of the bullet such that it's lightly compressed--like any other APP load--but I think that a sub-load might be perfectly fine for Plainsman distances while saving powder. I'm wondering if the SASS brain trust has any favored .45-70 APP (or blackpowder, generally) sub-loads for Plainsman that they'd share. Thank you!

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I use a Lee dipper 1.9cc APP and 1.9cc filler and a .405 bullet.  Some folks actually load a round ball instead of a lead bullet.  I am sure others will come along with their load.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I load ~30 grains of FFg 777 and a filler under a 300-grain bullet.  I have used .45 cal APP pellets (no longer available) and could swap the 777 for APP.  Full case loads of a BP sub are undesirable as they can knock over and/or damage targets.  

[Eyesa Horg]

My 45-70 Plainsman is mild to shoot and won't kill the targets.

2.8cc (abt. 41gr. by weight) of FF real BP. A .060 veg. card and 2.1cc of filler under a 210gr. bullet. The 405s are a lot longer. Sometimes I use .457 round balls with a lubed wad and veg card under the ball, filler adjusted for abt. 1/8" compression.

[Navy Davey]

I cast and powder coat my only bullets I use a 452 bullet that I double coat but don't size. Real black fffg one fiber wad and one greased felt. Can shoot all day 

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

I'm with Edward R S Canby: I'm trying about 30gr FFg Triple Seven, under a greased felt wad, under grits filler, under a Lyman 292gr .458" bevel base (BB) coated bullet.  But I'm very new at this category, so if anyone thinks this recipe is crazy, please tell me so.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

53 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

I'm with Edward R S Canby: I'm trying about 30gr FFg Triple Seven, under a greased felt wad, under grits filler, under a Lyman 292gr .458" bevel base (BB) coated bullet.  But I'm very new at this category, so if anyone thinks this recipe is crazy, please tell me so.

Why the greased wad?

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

2 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Why the greased wad?

Good question!  Do I not need it to separate the 777 from the grits filler? 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

My concern with the greased wad is that the grease might contaminate the powder.  My usual filler is a length of foam backer rod to hold the powder in place.  If I were to use grits I might use a fiber wad (aka Walters Wad) to separate the powder and filler.  BTW, I chose 30 grains because that is two throws of my powder measure set to load 38 Specials.  I also load with Alliant's discontinued MZ powder.  It works well too.

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Maybe my terminology is wrong.  To keep the powder and filler separate, I'm using Traditions Wonder Wads which are 100% wool wads, which come pre-lubed with "all-natural WonderLube1000 Plus" -- whatever that is.  They look and feel pretty much dry to me, so I can't see how they could contaminate the powder.

[Three Foot Johnson]

Deep seated 405 grain cast bullet over 40 grains (volume) black or sub. 

Plenty good enough for Plainsman distances, and surprisingly accurate in my H&R.

I probably put a Walter's Wad between them too... I'd have to go read my reloading notes.

 

[Griff]

I bought a Browning 1885 in 45 Colt!  Haven't missed a Plainsman target with it yet!  Ya don't need all that much gun to shoot Plainsman!  My shoulders don't groan in anticipation when I heft this little rifle like they do with my 45-70!

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

I use 2 cc 2f 2cc walnut media seat .457 round ball just past equator and crimp.  1 inch groups at 50 yards from armisports sharps or navy arms rolling block

 

[Eyesa Horg]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:15 PM, Three Foot Johnson said:

Deep seated 405 grain cast bullet over 40 grains (volume) black or sub. 

Plenty good enough for Plainsman distances, and surprisingly accurate in my H&R.

I probably put a Walter's Wad between them too... I'd have to go read my reloading notes.

 

No crimp or filler ???

[Three Foot Johnson]

8 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

No crimp or filler ???

No filler - the bullet is seated on the powder, and a crimp isn't necessary with black powder. Some long range BP shooters even claim accuracy is better without a crimp.

[Eyesa Horg]

Just now, Three Foot Johnson said:

No filler - the bullet is seated on the powder, and a crimp isn't necessary with black powder. Some long range BP shooters even claim accuracy is better without a crimp.

Thanks, do you just bump it in the size die to remove the bell? Looks like a quick and easy load. Especially since I have a few hundred 405 lead. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

Yep, as long as it will chamber, you're golden.

[OK Dirty Dan]

Thank you to everyone who responded! Taking everyone's information and applying it to the materials I have on hand, I'm going to give a few different loads a go. Some with 405gr bullets because I have them, some with .457 round balls since I too have those. I'm sure it'll be fun to figure out what works and even more fun to shoot the match this fall. Thanks again!