Need help with LOP for a '97

[Eyesa Horg]

I know this has been  beat to death, but can't find good info with a search here. I need to make the big move to cut down the stock on Ellie's '97. Doing the elbow thing it is about right stock, maybe a 1/4" long. As references said I measured from her nose to the action ( at the hammer ) and got 8". If I cut it that short there wouldn't be much stock left so obviously not the correct way to measure. I'm good with the 4 degree negative angle and the way the toe sticks into her, just changing the angle will shorten it a bit. Should I have her press it harder into her shoulder, stock, for the  measurement and measure to her thumb knuckle. The stock tapers quickly, so should I cut and then measure for a pad with maybe a piece of wood to make up for the recoil pad? I mean just how much can you grind off the pad if the stock needs to be cut shorter?

Ellie is tall and has long arms, but you can tell the way she shoots the stock is a bit long. I'm waiting for a LOP measurement from a Lady Pard whom loaned her a '97 last year and she liked it.

Also, is there a preferred style of recoil pad that works best for out game, thinking a Kick ez or a Limb saver.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

EH

[G W Wade]

Some say to leave the width of 2 fingers between thumb and nose.      GW

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

The traditional LOP is with the strong hand holding the shotgun.

Trigger finger on the trigger. (Make sure gun is empty)

Measure to the elbow.

This works fine for shooting the shotgun.

However the cas game is shooting and reloading.

 

This LOP is fine if reloading is done by lowering the gun and rolling it on it's side.

But if reloading is done while the shotgun is still shouldered and through the breech port, then removing another 3/4" will bring the port with in reach for loading rounds through the port.

 

This 3/4" includes any added recoil pad.

 

If the woman is short, then this number may need to be tried and may be closer to 1".

 

The best way to find out is to try shooting and loading shotguns used by woman shooters of the same height of a little shorter.

[Sedalia Dave]

39 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

Some say to leave the width of 2 fingers between thumb and nose.      GW

 

Note that when shortening the stock the amount removed from the stock and the change in distance between the thumb and nose is not proportional.

 

ie: removing 1 inch from the stock will reduce the thumb to nose measurement by more than 1 inch.

[Eyesa Horg]

41 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Note that when shortening the stock the amount removed from the stock and the change in distance between the thumb and nose is not proportional.

 

ie: removing 1 inch from the stock will reduce the thumb to nose measurement by more than 1 inch.

Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Hey Eyesa,

give me a call when you get a chance.

 

865 / 696-1996

 

..........Widder

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Widder,

Thank you again, it's always a pleasure. Tell TN he owes you a nanner split just cuz! Ellie smiled and says " Hi " right back at ya.

 

Eyesa

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

I reduced LOP on Bullion Rose's 97 to 12-1/4".  She doesn't need any recoil pad, just the thickness of the suede back end of the butt cuff, with my low recoil shells.  She loves it.  She is rather petite, though; she's the shortest of all these pretty ladies.  YMMV.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Widder,

Thank you again, it's always a pleasure. Tell TN he owes you a nanner split just cuz! Ellie smiled and says " Hi " right back at ya.

 

Eyesa

 

EYESA,

the pleasure was all mine.   Take care..... and keep in touch.

 

..........Widder

 

["Big Boston"]

I'm a pretty poor shotgun shooter, so being short of skills has steered me to having a shotgun fit me. 

 

For our game, where most if not all the targets are below eye level, you'll need more pitch that for shooting overhead game birds. If your body has boobs, you need a bit more pitch than normal. With our low recoil shells, this also negates some of the muzzle rise. 

 

If I can set my shotgun with the butt on the floor and the muzzle touches the wall, then the pitch is good. Most of mine are a bit less, but that is a quick way to check the degree of pitch. 

 

LOP: IMO the LOP should fit your stance, and in our game the stance should be defensive, and allow for range of motion to the right and left. A lot of shooters have a stance that accommodates some ill fitting shotgun they owned in the past, or allow them to hold up a shotgun that they are not strong enough to hold up. 

 

 

 

When it's all said and done, it should look something like the picture. 

 

If you search on some of the British sites, there is lots of info. They have made an art form of fitting stocks. 

 

With a '97, the off hand should be in the center of the pump, the off elbow should be bent, and the butt should rest against the shoulder without undue twist to the torso. I also prefer the Prince of Wales stock as it tends to keep the elbow up.

 

 

On my '97 that "feels" good, my LOP on the stock is 14" to the center of the butt of the stock. If I measure as in the picture, I'm 16". If you are using that as a guideline, you may want to have the stock about an inch shorter than that measurement on Ellie.

 

I liken our game to walking slowly through the woods hunting bunnies, when one is spotted, the gun should come up to the shoulder and as it touches the shoulder the picture should be good and trigger should be pulled. If it does that, the fit is right.

 

BB 

[Eyesa Horg]

Chopped off an inch and a half, we are now about 2 1/2 from nose to thumb and cut it negative 4 deg. When the pad comes in I will need to cut again for pad thickness and I think I will go another 1/2 shorter.

 

I found the same as you "BigBoston", about 2" shorter than the elbow to finger measurements. 

It was a bit un- nerving cutting it as nothing on this gun is square and parallel. Went by the light reflection off the barrel to get the 4 deg. and am going to go to 5 as there is still a bit of space at the top to her shoulder. So far she likes it!  (Hey Mikey!)

["Big Boston"]

Curiosity got the best of me, I had to get out the protractor, 6º on both my main and alternate. I feel I could go more, but it "looks" right at 6º. Instead of cutting, I use a 4" belt sander to move the toe back. No wonder the Winchester collectors cringe when they see my worked over 97s, dang collectors, pain in the butt(stock).

 

Short barrels, app 20" change the fit as well. I've had to put on a big bead to keep the POI from getting too high. 

 

BB

[Marauder SASS #13056]

19 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

I'm a pretty poor shotgun shooter, so being short of skills has steered me to having a shotgun fit me. 

 

For our game, where most if not all the targets are below eye level, you'll need more pitch that for shooting overhead game birds. If your body has boobs, you need a bit more pitch than normal. With our low recoil shells, this also negates some of the muzzle rise. 

 

If I can set my shotgun with the butt on the floor and the muzzle touches the wall, then the pitch is good. Most of mine are a bit less, but that is a quick way to check the degree of pitch. 

 

LOP: IMO the LOP should fit your stance, and in our game the stance should be defensive, and allow for range of motion to the right and left. A lot of shooters have a stance that accommodates some ill fitting shotgun they owned in the past, or allow them to hold up a shotgun that they are not strong enough to hold up. 

 

 

 

When it's all said and done, it should look something like the picture. 

 

If you search on some of the British sites, there is lots of info. They have made an art form of fitting stocks. 

 

With a '97, the off hand should be in the center of the pump, the off elbow should be bent, and the butt should rest against the shoulder without undue twist to the torso. I also prefer the Prince of Wales stock as it tends to keep the elbow up.

 

 

On my '97 that "feels" good, my LOP on the stock is 14" to the center of the butt of the stock. If I measure as in the picture, I'm 16". If you are using that as a guideline, you may want to have the stock about an inch shorter than that measurement on Ellie.

 

I liken our game to walking slowly through the woods hunting bunnies, when one is spotted, the gun should come up to the shoulder and as it touches the shoulder the picture should be good and trigger should be pulled. If it does that, the fit is right.

 

BB 

A few top shotgun and rifle shooters discussed this.  A couple had been over seas to have guns fitted for $$$ by top professional fitters. 

They all summarized that using this method will make sure the gun fits your arm, but may (likely) not fit for shooting depending on how your arm is "made" as well as your chest.  Those items can make quite a difference.  They said the nose to knuckle was a better measure. 
Of course they also discussed cast and camber, etc.

[Eyesa Horg]

3 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

A few top shotgun and rifle shooters discussed this.  A couple had been over seas to have guns fitted for $$$ by top professional fitters. 

They all summarized that using this method will make sure the gun fits your arm, but may (likely) not fit for shooting depending on how your arm is "made" as well as your chest.  Those items can make quite a difference.  They said the nose to knuckle was a better measure. 
Of course they also discussed cast and camber, etc.

What distance do you find best Marauder? I'm at 2 1/2 without cutting for the recoil pad yet. Also, have you found a specific pad that works best? My plan was to go with a Kickeez, but not sure which model. Thanks.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

From what I've been advised 1 1/2 to about 2 inches. 

It takes more time but you can go with the 2 1/2 first, then see if that works.

 

You should be able to mount the gun and have it pointing where you want., but with loading the 97, you may be pointing a little high so that you can more easily reload.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

She looks great, but I'm not sure she would want to shoot a cowboy match like that,

 

Where would the rifle brass go?!!

 

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

She looks great, but I'm not sure she would want to shoot a cowboy match like that,

 

Where would the rifle brass go?!!

 

 

Would make for some interesting dance moves. 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

I like this pad in brown.

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1115131620

 

Randy

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I like this pad in brown.

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1115131620

 

Randy

 

Have that one on all my shotguns and love them.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

6 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Have that one on all my shotguns and love them.

Back when I was shooting Marlin’s I had them on all of them as well as my shotguns. It kept them from sliding on my shoulder while levering.

 

 Randy