Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I just got though reading an article about loading for long range shooting with the .45-70. The items that it appears I need are: -24" brass drop tube -Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformer -Lyman M-die for getting precise neck expansion. -Redding Micrometer adjustable compression seating die -.030 King Veg wads I am not in any hurry to get the items as I still have to move 1700 miles so the less I buy now the less I have to move. But, do these sound right? I have a set of RCBS .45-70 dies, several Lyman molds, and a wad punch die that I'm a little fuzzy on using. The article said to "fire-form" the brass, which I assume means to load them up and shoot them. from then on I only resize the neck. Do I have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I found the .060 veg wad to seal better. Don't worry about the primer pocket uniformer. I F/L size my Sharps .45-70 cases in a .45-90 die. Works the brass less. Would be a good idea to anneal the case mouths before the first loading. Don't need a mic-die for powder compression. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 The article said to load Swiss 1.5. I had another shooter recommend using Swiss 4. I guess I can see that because there would be less air space and more powder. Yet, I don't see anyone else saying that. Recommendations? Edit: I found a table that shows Swiss 4 being the same as 1.5F. Swiss brand number "F" system of grain size designation 5 Fg (1Fg) 4 1 1/2 Fg (between Fg and FFg in grain size) 3 FFg (2Fg) 2 FFFg (3Fg) 1 FFFFg (4Fg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 If you are going to load the .45-70 I highly recommend you find a copy of Loading cartridges for the original .45-70 Springfield rifle and carbine by J.S Wolf and Pat Wolf. The best book I've ever seed dedicated to a single cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, Cholla said: Swiss 4. Better double check that. It is my understanding the anything finer than 3f is for priming pans or blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 NO to any BP in #4! Swiss is WAY over priced. Get some Goex Old E in 2F. For primers, I would use CCI br2. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 4f is a big bad bang. Everyone uses 1.5 or 2f. If I'm going to use the brass in the same rifle I never resize. And I don't crimp. Locally we put enough powder in to just let the bullet engage the lands. We lever the round in with a cam. That seats and compresses the bullet. But as you'll find out every rifle shoots s different load, bullet, loading combination. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 OP, I strongly urge to to buy the book- Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West by Mike Venturino. You'll find it on Amazon. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 7 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: OP, I strongly urge to to buy the book- Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West by Mike Venturino. You'll find it on Amazon. OLG The article I read was by Mike so I just ordered his book. Goex Olde Eynsford it is. I didn't want to buy non-USA powder anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Better double check that. It is my understanding the anything finer than 3f is for priming pans or blanks. That is why I was questioning it. I also read where some were seating the bullet out so they could pack more powder in so I thought, eh, maybe that how some get even more packed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Cholla said: That is why I was questioning it. I also read where some were seating the bullet out so they could pack more powder in so I thought, eh, maybe that how some get even more packed in. You going to shoot GG bullets or PP? I shoot GG that I cast. It's a 535gn Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet cast 30/1, pan lubed with DGL OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: You going to shoot GG bullets or PP? I shoot GG that I cast. It's a 535gn Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet cast 30/1, pan lubed with DGL OLG I am ignorant on what GG or PP mean. I picked up three molds at the estate sale of a long range shooter. Two are Lyman. I am at work so I can’t verify the numbers but I think one was a 535 grain Postell (sp?) and another mold by a company I hadn’t heard of before that looks very close. I had looked at the PJ Creedmoor mold but I see they are no longer offered. I figured I’d see how the molds I have work before getting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 GG=grease groove PP=paper patch CK this forum out..... http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 A drop tube is a handy thing to have if you are trying to get the case as full as possible. And a M die is also handy , as is a compression die , but nothing on that list is absolutely necessary. Venturino's book will be some helpful reading. You are in for some great times when you get settled in. Good luck , and good shooting. Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Lots of good info here. http://www.bpcr.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Locally most of us; Don't resize cases Anneal the cases Don't use a compression die. We use the same maker brass for everything, no mix and match brass. Drop the powder form the dispenser and then also weigh it to insure every load is the same. We put a newspaper wad over the primer to help spread the flame. We use a fiber wad over the powder. We use 1.5 or 2F Swiss We drop the powder into the case with a 24" drop tube. We push the bullet by hand into the case. We do not crimp. The bullet is set out far enough that when pushed into the chamber it touches the lands. Then we seat the round into the chamber with a lever which also compresses the powder about 1/16" Avoids bullet jump! We use Federal "match" primers 20/1 or 30/1 lead bullets. Size and shape a vary with the shooter. Lube is shooters choice, mine is 50/50 Crisco and bees wax. We wipe with a wet patch after every shot. Too dry here in Nevada for blow tubes. We shoot out to 750 yards We shoot BBCR target shapes and or squares and round targets. But what you'll find is what you'll find in each author's book and each shooter. You need to find your combination. All of these are good starting points Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Every ones loads a bit different. My loads are based on what the target showed me. My testing was done at 500yds. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 I checked what I bought last week. Lyman 457132 535 GR Postell mould Lyman 457193 405 GR Mould Saeco 65745 525 GR mould Lyman .45 cal Short Neck Size Die (45-70, 45-90, 45-100) 180 Nonte-Taylor unfired 45 basic brass (45-120) 28 Huntington unfired 45 basic brass (45-120) My thinking is that I sell the 45-120 brass and buy some Starline 45-70 brass I have a mess of Remington brass but another article I read said Remington brass has too much variation in the neck for accuracy sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blarney Kid Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Cholla, when you get settled and get your loads set up come on out to the Quigley match in Forsyth, Montana on Father's Day weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Blarney Kid said: Cholla, when you get settled and get your loads set up come on out to the Quigley match in Forsyth, Montana on Father's Day weekend. Do as he sez-It's a great shoot. My wife and I had the best of time at the Q. OP-Dump the basic and go with Starline. Order a stepped expander from Buffalo Arms Company. You want .457x.461. You will also need to buy a compression die that fits the die body you use the expander in. I use the Lyman die body. https://www.buffaloarms.com/ You WILL NEED to anneal the case mouths of those s'line cases. What alloy will you shoot-You don't want a 'hard' bullet. I have had good luck with 20/1 and 30/1 lead/tin alloy. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Cholla -read this article and you'll be a Black Powder Reloader in no time: The BP Cartridge Rifle Reloading Guide https://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Circling back around, I found a table in the info John Boy provided that shows that Swiss 4 is the same as 1.5F Swiss brand number "F" system of grain size designation 5 Fg (1Fg) 4 1 1/2 Fg (between Fg and FFg in grain size) 3 FFg (2Fg) 2 FFFg (3Fg) 1 FFFFg (4Fg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Howdy ; Get Paul Matthews book on the .45-70 and his book "The Paper Jacket" The Number ONE thing I have found to increase uniformity is the proper use of a Drop-Tube in the loading of Blackpowder cartridges ... The Lyman mold you didn't buy is one designed by Paul Matthews ... and is a very good one ... I have had Zero problem with Remington brass in .45-70 , can't say the same about a lot of their other brass ... Star-Line Brass is good as are CCI Match Primers ... A good Lube is Critical, SPG, Lyman Gold, Pioneer Black Powder or "DGL"... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Quote I found a table in the info John Boy provided that shows that Swiss 4 is the same as 1.5F Needs to be explained more: Swiss powder sold on the International market excluding the US & Canada use the 1 through 5 grades of powder designation. I'm not sure if it is the same for other BP vendors such as Wano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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