kb466 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I have come into possession of a Pietta 1873 “General Custer” Model. It looks to be a nice, well- made Colt clone. But as I go to work on It and upgrade it’s appearance, I find that the hammer, bolt and trigger screws are short. All three screws sit excessively low and below the frame on both sides. The head of the screws are not tall enough to ride flush with the frame, and the tail of the screws are simply too short to extend through to be flush as a good Colt should. I tried ordering a new set of Pietta screws but they were the same— too short. But the Colt screws I had on hand seemed as though they would be a perfect fit— if the threads had been the same. So how to fix this? Where do I find longer Colt like screws with Pietta threads? So far, I have been out of luck finding such screws. The other option is to drill and retap the frame to take Colt screws. This could be done I suppose, if I could find the correct taps (as recommended by Kuhnhausen). I plan to color- case harden the frame so I’ll be annealing it any way. So any recommendations as to where to find longer Pietta screws or the appropriate Colt taps? I know the obvious solution is to shoot it with the short screws, but my obsessive nature won’t allow me to do that! Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Call these folks.......... https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/accessories/parts/pietta-parts.html "Pietta threads' = metric. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 I did check with Taylor’s, but no luck. They tell me that the Pietta screws they sell are made by Pietta and thus are no longer than the screws that came on my pistol. And yes, I realize that Pietta screws are metric. I have even considered rethreading some Colt- thread screws to the Pietta threads. The problem is whether there is enough of the screw left to turn on the new threads. I think it will work with the hammer screw; not so sure about the bolt and trigger screws. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Doesn’t EMF carry Piettas?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I don't know what you have going on there w/ the General Custer ... but ... after reading your post I pulled out all four of my Piettas to take a look. In the cases of the two shown in the photos the screws are actually slightly proud of the frame ... I put a straight edge on to check. The stainless is a GWII and the blued (case color thing) is a Charles Daly ... both of these are Piettas. Each of these have a mate and screw protrusion is identical. I have two Uberti Cattleman revolvers and they are similar (if not slightly more protruding for the bolt and the trigger screws). However ... since the threads on all of these three screws are on the left (entry) side of the frame ... retention/strength should not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Patagonia Pete, Here are a couple of photos that illustrate what I mean on my pistol. In my experience, the domes of the ends of the screws should start flush with the surface of the frame, then the dome should stand slightly proud of the surface of the frame— hope I’m making sense here. Then on the left side of the frame, the screw heads are slightly recessed into their hole— more than they should be, leaving a recessed area around the edge of the screw head. Again, the side of the screw head should sit level with the frame, not below it. Then the dome of the screw head should stand slightly proud of the frame— but on both sides, there should be no recessed areas as you can see in my pictures. I hope this helps explain my issue here. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Both sides appear to be the same. I would learn to live with it....... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, kb466 said: > snip < Here are a couple of photos that illustrate what I mean on my pistol. > snip < Wow ... that is strange but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it ... They clearly are deeper than mine on the left side (but sometimes people shave the shoulders for indexing etc ... fitting color washers and such) ... If you were local we could sit down and swap some screws and see what is going on. Go to a match and find "THE" local smith!! I think the "latest" Uberti (bolt/trigger) aren't metric. Here is the left side of the ChasDaly ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 You think your gun has a screw problem. Here is my second generation Colt SAA in 45Colt. You'd think they would make them better. The nylon washer was missing on the driver's side. But that wouldn't have been enough to pull the screw back where it should be. I found a light spring with the id of the screw body and od smaller than the head and cut one coil off and used it like a washer. Looks better but not exactly perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 If you have someone who can cut new screw blanks, you can get the metric dies and thread the screws to get the lengths of shank and thickness of heads that you wish. I'd probably go that route if I were going to re case harden the frames - cost of hand made screws will be "down in the weeds". Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Warden Callaway, I have a second generation Colt SAA from the 1960’s and the screws are spot on. Same with my third generation Colt. I think your problem may be due to a replaced screw. Colt screws aren’t hard to find. I would suggest trying that out. Patagonia Pete, I may resort to going to my local smith as you suggest. He is experienced working on SAA’s and may have a solution. I would tap the screw holes to Colt threads if I could find the correct taps. Does anyone know a source? Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Well ... FWIW ... the Pietta trigger and bolt screws are both 5mm .. but ... I noticed a guy on EBay ... selling a bolt screw ... AND .. he has a photo showing the trigger screw being longer than the bolt screw. I don't know if this is something new or what ... I think I would try a set of replacement screws from a reliable source before getting too crazy. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pietta-1873-SAA-Cylinder-Bolt-Stop-Screw-Peacemaker-/123870795074?nma=true&si=UnblghcPOYttLsi1ErN%2BXleIhcM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557the trigger screw is about 1mm longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 I took your advice and ordered a set of the three screws from Taylor’s. As fo the guy on eBay, I bought screws from that guy last week— they were short like the ones I have. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, kb466 said: I would tap the screw holes to Colt threads if I could find the correct taps That would be a good way to make for lots more problems than you have already, most likely. Work the least expensive part rather than the most expensive (the frame). Lesson #1 in Gunsmithing 101. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Really?? Much ado about ..... nothing. I understand the OP has already admitted OCD and therefore will pursue this non-problem into the ground. Oh, and .... PLUS ONE too Garrison Joe. Attempting to re-tap the frame to "Colt" screws will likely result in needing to replace the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 IF that is real CCH. Real good chance of breaking the tap in the rec'r. Don't re-thread it OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 It’s not real color case hardening—but is the Italian pseudo case hardening. I plan to thoroughly anneal the frame before correctly color case hardening it. I would not even attempt tapping it without a thorough annealing job. But happily I won’t have to attempt to tap the screw holes. A good friend and local Colt SAA aficionado learned of my “need” and came by with a set of Pietta screws he had on hand. I tried them out and they are a great improvement. I can live with these. Interestingly, when I compared the different screws, it appeared that my original screws had been way over-polished on each end— probably on some sort of machine buffer. I think that explains the shortened screws. Thanks to all for your help. All is well with the world! Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Local help, as mentioned by at least one pard above, is always the fastest and sometimes the best. SASS pards can be very resourceful. One great reason to hang around with the best folks in the shooting world. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 GJ, Absolutely right! Just goes to show how helpful the SASS group can be! Here are some photos of my pistol with the new screws— quite a bit of improvement, though you may not be able to see it in the photos. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 What was the measured difference in the screws? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 I would guess that all three new screws averaged 1.5 to 2 mm longer than the originals. On close examination, it looked like each end of the original screws were over-polished— too much had been removed from each end. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, kb466 said: I would guess that all three new screws averaged 1.5 to 2 mm longer than the originals. On close examination, it looked like each end of the original screws were over-polished— too much had been removed from each end. Bill M. Do you live in the USA? We are not on the metric system here. To bad you didn't measure the difference before install. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Ha ha! Yes, I live in the good old USA! But I figured that since these were metric screws with metric threads, I would use the metric system! Actually, I would guess that there was between 1/32” to 1/16” difference in length (closer to 1/16”)— that is measuring with the old eyeball. When I get my new screws from Taylor’s, I’ll take these out and measure all the screws. Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1/16= .0625 Look'n forward to the update. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 If it isn't causing a problem with the function of the gun, leave it alone until it does.... Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 You can stretch screws with a hammer, a chisel a welder and files, but it isn't worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb466 Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 Thanks! Stretching the screws as you suggest sounds like a lot of work. Can’t imagine ending up with a precision screw. But then I’m happy with the way my new screws fit, so I’m not going to be looking for any other fixes. All is well with the world! Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 something else id not thought to study - will have to look at mine , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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