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Abilene Slim SASS 81783

Shooting out of category

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After years of shooting duelist with a cross draw rig, I've been trying to learn how to shoot double duelist with two strong side holsters. Since the category allows, I shoot the first pistol dry, drop my hand with barrel on the table pointed down range, shoot the second pistol and reholster both before the next string.

 

On Saturday, a pistol sequence had two close up targets and a third some distance away. Sequence was to double tap then triple tap the close targets with first pistol, then with the second pistol, put one round on a close target, then put four on the dump target.

 

I double tapped the close targets with the first pistol, rested it on the table (hammer down on empty chamber) and pulled the second pistol. Realizing my error, I put the fifth round on the target as required and finished the second pistol string as required.

 

No call was made, but on reflection I'm thinking a "P" should have been called for shooting out of category? Only B-Western and Gunfighter allow two loaded pistols out at the same time.

 

Next time, award myself a P?

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Sounds right.

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​The penalty didn't "kick in" until either revolver was actually COCKED with two loaded pistols "out of leather".

​Re-holstering the 2nd pistol before cocking the 1st one would have avoided the penalty.

 

​This clarification was reiterated at the WR TG meeting.

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After years of shooting duelist with a cross draw rig, I've been trying to learn how to shoot double duelist with two strong side holsters. Since the category allows, I shoot the first pistol dry, drop my hand with barrel on the table pointed down range, shoot the second pistol and reholster both before the next string.

 

On Saturday, a pistol sequence had two close up targets and a third some distance away. Sequence was to double tap then triple tap the close targets with first pistol, then with the second pistol, put one round on a close target, then put four on the dump target.

 

I double tapped the close targets with the first pistol, rested it on the table (hammer down on empty chamber) and pulled the second pistol. Realizing my error, I put the fifth round on the target as required and finished the second pistol string as required.

 

No call was made, but on reflection I'm thinking a "P" should have been called for shooting out of category? Only B-Western and Gunfighter allow two loaded pistols out at the same time.

 

Next time, award myself a P?

 

Yes that is a potential 'gotcha' when shooting double duelist. I would always have a grip on my second pistol and draw it as soon as I finished with the first and even though I would reholster the first there would be a period of time where I had both pistols out together. So there was always a risk that I could mess up and have a live round left in the first pistol, oops!

 

I want to suggest that you practice drawing that second pistol as soon as that fifth shot is fired and reholster the first pistol while firing the second. In most scenarios; there will be something useful you can do with the free hand. Such as; grabbing shells, or shotgun or rifle. Not reholstering the first pistol is only useful when the pistols are last.

 

Obviously it will require some dedicated practice to learn to do these other things with your now free hand while maintaining your primary focus on shooting that second pistol. It is both very challenging and gratifying.

 

Good luck to you!

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I want to suggest that you practice drawing that second pistol as soon as that fifth shot is fired and reholster the first pistol while firing the second. In most scenarios; there will be something useful you can do with the free hand. Such as; grabbing shells, or shotgun or rifle. Not reholstering the first pistol is only useful when the pistols are last.

 

 

Listen to ^this man! This is one of the main advantages of double duelist, it gives you tons of more options for quick and efficient transitions. As has been said many MANY times, you've got two hands, use them both. Once that first pistol is empty put it away and be doing something with that now free hand.

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Also remember that this particular P is cumulative If you do it a second time, it becomes a Stage DQ. Third time, you will be picking up brass for the rest of the day

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​The penalty didn't "kick in" until either revolver was actually COCKED with two loaded pistols "out of leather".

​Re-holstering the 2nd pistol before cocking the 1st one would have avoided the penalty.

 

​This clarification was reiterated at the WR TG meeting.

That's good to know.....never heard it iterated the first time. :wacko:

 

Stan

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​The penalty didn't "kick in" until either revolver was actually COCKED with two loaded pistols "out of leather".

​Re-holstering the 2nd pistol before cocking the 1st one would have avoided the penalty.

 

​This clarification was reiterated at the WR TG meeting.

Thanks for the clarification

 

Randy

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​The same ruling would apply to a GUNFIGHTER shooting in a non-GF category who, out of habit, draws both revolvers at the same time...no penalty as long as one pistol is re-holstered before either one is cocked.

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On 3/5/2017 at 10:32 PM, CodyMaverick said:

 

Yes that is a potential 'gotcha' when shooting double duelist. I would always have a grip on my second pistol and draw it as soon as I finished with the first and even though I would reholster the first there would be a period of time where I had both pistols out together. So there was always a risk that I could mess up and have a live round left in the first pistol, oops!

 

I want to suggest that you practice drawing that second pistol as soon as that fifth shot is fired and reholster the first pistol while firing the second. In most scenarios; there will be something useful you can do with the free hand. Such as; grabbing shells, or shotgun or rifle. Not reholstering the first pistol is only useful when the pistols are last.

 

Obviously it will require some dedicated practice to learn to do these other things with your now free hand while maintaining your primary focus on shooting that second pistol. It is both very challenging and gratifying.

 

Good luck to you!

Also remember the pistol can be moving in the holster as your shooting your first. Its only in hand when the pistol barrel breaks the mouth of the holster. As i fire the last shot first pistol my second pistol is moving up.

 

Now you need to be carful because some may want to call you in shooting out if category.  Someone tried to call it on me once. Fortunately for me it was a stage start sitting. First 5 shoots had to be seated.  Then flip a table as you stand 2nd 5 shoots. When i was called i asked how is it possible for me to do all that and have 2 pistols in hands loaded. The spotter was overruled. 

 

EMN

 

 

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9 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

The same ruling would apply to a GUNFIGHTER shooting in a non-GF category who, out of habit, draws both revolvers at the same time...no penalty as long as one pistol is re-holstered before either one is cocked.

SHB Page 14 states;  "The Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, and B-Western Categories are the only categories that allow two loaded revolvers ― in hand at the same time."

ROI Page States "Revolver in hand – when the muzzle of the revolver clears the mouth of the holster, or breaks contact with a prop upon which it was staged."

Whether a revolver was cocked or not has never been part of the equation and is not in any of the rule books.  When did this change and where was it published?

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2 minutes ago, Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 said:

SHB Page 14 states;  "The Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, and B-Western Categories are the only categories that allow two loaded revolvers ―in hand‖ at the same time."

ROI Page States "Revolver in hand – when the muzzle of the revolver clears the mouth of the holster, or breaks contact with a prop upon which it was staged."

Whether a revolver was cocked or not has never been part of the equation and is not in any of the rule books.  When did this change and where was it published?

The clarification was announced at the WR TG meeting.

It will be published in the minutes as soon as they are compiled and approved.

The intent is to get that incorporated in the next rulebook edit.

When I mentioned "reiterated" I was thinking of the ROC discussions of the question of the point at which the penalty applies and/or if it could be "undone" during stage engagement.

I apologize for any confusion for that "brain fade" on my part.

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Thanks PWB.  I'm teaching ROI & ROII this weekend  and again in April.  I just want to make sure I'm putting out the latest information.  I remember this same topic came up several years ago and the ruling then was that the penalty applied as soon as the revolvers were "in hand"  If I remember correctly that is when the definition of "In Hand" was added o the rule book.

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