We ain't the Greatest Generation, but we ain't half bad either.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

Trumans restaurant in Columbia MO has a Military Morning the second wednesday of every month. Vets get a free breakfast and there is usually a program of some kind. Well, this morning Paul Dobbs the Commander of American Legion Post 202 in Columbia MO gave a presentation on his participation in "The Ride to the Wall 2014" About 3000 riders met in Rancho Cucamonga CA to take the central route cross country to the Vietnam Memorial. I gotta say I got teary eyed as he showed slides of the events. These men, who were vilified for years for their participation in the war, ridiculed, humiliated and hated never gave up their pride and honor in having worn their country's uniform. We saw slide after slide of people lining the streets in every village and town cheering them on. In his words "From the time we left until we got to Washington we never bought a meal. Everyplace we rode we were fed breakfast lunch and dinner. Sometimes by American Legion or VFW posts, often just by the people of the towns pulling out picnic tables and feeding us on their own. First time riders never expected the outpouring of love they received from one coast to the other.He described it as the most emotional rollercoaster he had ever been on. They rode to honor every one that served but mostly in honor of the POW's and MIA's. He had pictures of three of his high school friends (two KIA one MIA) taped to the windshield of his bike and taped them benith their names on The Wall". When he got home he gave the pictures he took of the pictures on "the Wall" to the families. Each day the leading group rode in a “missing man” formation with the open space dedicated to a different MIA each day. I find it an amazing response to the original homecomming they got from the “Greatist Generation” and those that resisted the war and detested them. If America wouldn't give them a parade then we'll have our own now. A Parade 3000 miles long honoring those you would not. We'll do it every year and people have responded. I'm proud of those guys. Almost makes me want to buy a motorcycle, almost. As the Aussies (the only ones besided the ROK who fought with us) might say, “Good on ya mates”.

[Subdeacon Joe]

More good than bad out there. Just that most who do stuff like that do it quietly, without fanfare.

[J-BAR #18287]

Thanks Bugs. We needed that.

[Calamity Kris]

Thanks for sharing that, Bugs.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Good report, Bugs. Thank you for that.

[DocWard]

Thanks for sharing.

[Harvey Mushman]

Thanks Bugs, great post.

 

One observation - as a Vietnam Vet, I never saw or had one of the "Greatest Generation" treat me poorly on my return. It was my own baby boomer generation - the self absorbed, self-indulgent, irresponsible, hippies & cowards who were the real scum.

 

We did have a former close neighbor and family friend, who did not serve in WWII - he was deferred and a hard leftist. My father, and I were both in uniform when he "disowned our friendship" because we were "baby killers".

 

Get a motorcycle - you will enjoy it!

[Pay Dirt Norvelle #90056]

Thanks for the report. I didn't served as I was 4-F (Lost part of a leg), however I did work at FMC Corp for a while where we were making M113 APCs. We had several WWII vets working there at the time plus a couple of the guys in my Dept. were Special Forces reservists (sp?).

[Noz]

I must admit that it is sometimes difficult seeing the adulation poured out on the returning Gulf War Veterans when I was told to not wear my uniform when I returned from Vietnam because I might provoke a demonstration.

I told them to "bring it". I wore my Class As to Missouri hoping to see Jane Fonda along the way.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

My only real disappointment with "The Greatest Generation" is knowing that had they done as much for Korean and Vietnam Vets as Vietnam vets have done for themselves and all those that have followed there would be many fewer who's PTSD was caused after they arrived home. Those would not be the combat vets but all the others that arrived home to the derision of, what seemed to be the entire country. In defence of the WW2 generation, they may simply not have seen the need. I'm proud that we did and turned it around for those that followed.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Thanks Bugs, great post.

 

One observation - as a Vietnam Vet, I never saw or had one of the "Greatest Generation" treat me poorly on my return. It was my own baby boomer generation - the self absorbed, self-indulgent, irresponsible, hippies & cowards who were the real scum.

 

We did have a former close neighbor and family friend, who did not serve in WWII - he was deferred and a hard leftist. My father, and I were both in uniform when he "disowned our friendship" because we were "baby killers".

 

Get a motorcycle - you will enjoy it!

I rarely received any negativity from the older folks.

I supported the right of people to protest the war, even refuse to serve. But when they waved enemy flags, denigrated and attacked our own, they crossed the line.

But given the way the press handled the war, I can see how some might have misunderstood the conflict from a political standpoint. There was no Pearl Harbor, no Lusitania, no USS Maine. The 3rd estate continually made it seem as if we were the bad guys. That was completely the opposite of how the press behaved in WWll.

I was briefly kind of disturbed at the yellow ribbons and the welcome home the Gulf War troops received. Only briefly though. Then I decided that maybe Americans had come to their senses. Sure, sometimes they go a bit overboard with the "hero" stuff nowadays but that's excusable seeing as how so few citizens these days have any military experience.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

"Sure, sometimes they go a bit overboard with the "hero" stuff nowadays but that's excusable seeing asnhow so few citizens these days have any military experience. "

 

Less than 2% of the American population have any military experience according to ABC this morning. That might well explain a whole lot about the problems in our society.

[Harvey Mushman]

I rarely received any negativity from the older folks.

I supported the right of people to protest the war, even refuse to serve. But when they waved enemy flags, denigrated and attacked our own, they crossed the line.

But given the way the press handled the war, I can see how some might have misunderstood the conflict from a political standpoint. There was no Pearl Harbor, no Lusitania, no USS Maine. The 3rd estate continually made it seem as if we were the bad guys. That was completely the opposite of how the press behaved in WWll.

I was briefly kind of disturbed at the yellow ribbons and the welcome home the Gulf War troops received. Only briefly though. Then I decided that maybe Americans had come to their senses. Sure, sometimes they go a bit overboard with the "hero" stuff nowadays but that's excusable seeing as how so few citizens these days have any military experience.

Agreed Bob.

 

The one point where the difference really hit home for me was a month after I'm back, and in my shared apartment on the road out in front of the base - down the street come about 300 of our hippie coward finest marching to the front gate (1/4 away) carrying the NV and PRC flags and loudly chanting "Ho Chi-Minh Is Going to Win", Interspersed with %^&*( epithets about those in uniform. Then returning to the Ho Chi chant.

 

My roomates and I resisted the urge to break out our personal arms, but the range was a good subsitute for stress relief that day.

[Utah Bob #35998]

On consideration I think we may be half bad. Or perhaps a little less than half.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

"Sure, sometimes they go a bit overboard with the "hero" stuff nowadays but that's excusable seeing asnhow so few citizens these days have any military experience. "

 

Less than 2% of the American population have any military experience according to ABC this morning. That might well explain a whole lot about the problems in our society.

I agree. The Vietnam war was on the television every single night. I can only imagine the amount if people that served was much higher than the 2% number of today. I think that if there were a draft, or even mandatory service, we would have a lot less wars. And the ones that we did have would be better thought through with real plans and far less money to be made. Ah if only people had listened to good old Smedley Butler back when he was still alive

[Utah Bob #35998]

I agree. The Vietnam war was on the television every single night. I can only imagine the amount if people that served was much higher than the 2% number of today. I think that if there were a draft, or even mandatory service, we would have a lot less wars. And the ones that we did have would be better thought through with real plans and far less money to be made. Ah if only people had listened to good old Smedley Butler back when he was still alive

Well, mandatory service or a draft does not mean fewer wars I'm afraid. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam all had a Selective Service draft in place. There were over 9,000,000 servicemen on active duty during the Vietnam war, '65-75.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

Well, mandatory service or a draft does not mean fewer wars I'm afraid. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam all had a Selective Service draft in place. There were over 9,000,000 servicemen on active duty during the Vietnam war, '65-75.

 

Mandatory service also means more awareness of the public to casualties. They seem less inclined to protest and try to run the war from home when the force is voluntary and does not include their little angel darlin'.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

On consideration I think we may be half bad. Or perhaps a little less than half.

 

Single men in Barracks ain't plaster saints. At least they ain't if you believe someone that writes better poetry than me.

[Klondike SASS Life #29713]

 

Mandatory service also means more awareness of the public to casualties. They seem less inclined to protest and try to run the war from home when the force is voluntary and does not include their little angel darlin'.

I have for years asked for mandatory service. But the one mandatory service I feel strongest about is POTUS. Our founding fathers did not ever see a time in the future where a candidate would not have served in one branch of the services. How can a man be a successful Commander in Chief if he has never served or been followed and held his friends lives in his hands. The constitution should be changed to that requirement.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

I have for years asked for mandatory service. But the one mandatory service I feel strongest about is POTUS. Our founding fathers did not ever see a time in the future where a candidate would not have served in one branch of the services. How can a man be a successful Commander in Chief if he has never served or been followed and held his friends lives in his hands. The constitution should be changed to that requirement.

 

No arguement from me on the concept but some pretty good Presidents never served in the military and a lot of pretty bad Presidents did.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I have for years asked for mandatory service. But the one mandatory service I feel strongest about is POTUS. Our founding fathers did not ever see a time in the future where a candidate would not have served in one branch of the services. How can a man be a successful Commander in Chief if he has never served or been followed and held his friends lives in his hands. The constitution should be changed to that requirement.

I would like to see this expanded to all of congress as well. And then add in Smedly Butler's suggestion:

 

"It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war. The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labour before the nation's manhood can be conscripted. Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get."

[Subdeacon Joe]

So...what was Thomas Jefferson's military service like? How about John Adams? To say that "Our founding fathers did not ever see a time in the future where a candidate would not have served in one branch of the services" is a huge leap of logic from a very rickety bridge built on sand.

Military service is no guarantee of a good president. Buchanan was in his state militia, as was Lincoln (all of 3 months). Grant, head of one of the most corrupt administrations in our history led an army. Carter went to Annapolis and served in the Navy.

[Utah Bob #35998]

So...what was Thomas Jefferson's military service like? How about John Adams? To say that "Our founding fathers did not ever see a time in the future where a candidate would not have served in one branch of the services" is a huge leap of logic from a very rickety bridge built on sand.

Military service is no guarantee of a good president. Buchanan was in his state militia, as was Lincoln (all of 3 months). Grant, head of one of the most corrupt administrations in our history led an army. Carter went to Annapolis and served in the Navy.

 

+1

While it sounds simple and logical to ensure the CinC has some military experience, exactly what experience would qualify him/her? Infantry enlisted man who served in combat? Finance officer who spent his tour in Ft Benning? Coast Guardsman on a bouy tender? SEAL? Drone pilot? Mechanic?

The fact that one wore the uniform may or may not be a benefit. How about a combat soldier who saw so many friends killed that he can't bear to send men in harm's way, ever, for any reason? How about the guy who actually enjoyed the rush of combat and thirsts for it still? Do you want him in charge?

What if he was physically unable to serve but wanted to? Is he to be denied office?

I know some vets who learned very little from their experience, or learned all the wrong things.

 

No, while I think it's usually a good thing for elected types to have experienced military service, I don't think it should be a requirement for POTUS. Grant is a very good example, Joe. Good commander. War hero. Horrible President.

Kerry also served. And he doesn't think we're at war with a force that is much more of a threat to Ameria than Uncle Ho ever was.

Give me a President who is intelligent, honorable, experienced, protects the Constitution, and has the best interests of the country at heart.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I don't think you define what a president will be based on his war record. I think what people are advocating is that military service is a prerequisite. The floor, not the ceiling

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

"Give me a President who is intelligent, honorable, experienced, protects the Constitution, and has the best interests of the country at heart."

 

That man or woman would get my vote.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I don't think you define what a president will be based on his war record. I think what people are advocating is that military service is a prerequisite. The floor, not the ceiling

 

I didn't say "war record," did I? (scrolls up and checks) Nope..."military service," was what I wrote. Bob made some excellent points:

 

The fact that one wore the uniform may or may not be a benefit. How about a combat soldier who saw so many friends killed that he can't bear to send men in harm's way, ever, for any reason? How about the guy who actually enjoyed the rush of combat and thirsts for it still? Do you want him in charge?

What if he was physically unable to serve but wanted to? Is he to be denied office?

I know some vets who learned very little from their experience, or learned all the wrong things.

 

I know a lot of people like Heinlein's concept from "Starship Troopers" that you can only hold office if you have served in the military in some way, but even the argument he advances that they all have signed on to put themselves in harms way doesn't hold up. Many join for the enlistment bonus, or the chance to have the government pay for school and a degree and will work the system to avoid being sent into harms way. Military service may help develop an existing sense of social responsibility, but it the seed isn't there to start with there is no way for service to cause it to grow.

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

There's some very smart people on this list. Wish I was one of 'em. I've truly enjoyed hearing everyone's opinion without name calling. I thought Heinlein's concept was citizenship through service. I didn't think you could even vote let alone hold office but, It's been a long time since I read it.

[Subdeacon Joe]

There's some very smart people on this list. Wish I was one of 'em. I've truly enjoyed hearing everyone's opinion without name calling. I thought Heinlein's concept was citizenship through service. I didn't think you could even vote let alone hold office but, It's been a long time since I read it.

 

It was. I was just limiting my thought to what had already been introduced in the thread. I figure that our founders, if they had wanted a citizenship to be limited that way would have set up our By Laws (Constitution) so it was. .

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

 

It was. I was just limiting my thought to what had already been introduced in the thread. I figure that our founders, if they had wanted a citizenship to be limited that way would have set up our By Laws (Constitution) so it was. .

 

I'm pretty sure the Founders had had a bellyfull of restrictions on land ownership, voting rights, and military governors. They were about uplifting the common man to equal status with those in power. A concept we seem to have lost along the way.

[Old Top]

Heinlein's concept was not strictly military service, it was service to the goverment as quoted in the book "we do not turn anyone away, if you came in in a wheelchair and blind they would find a job for you, even if it is counting the fuzz on a peach by touch" I beleive it is a service to the overall good of the group.

 

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