J. W. Winchester Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm thinking about buying a pair of Uberti 7" Schofields in .38 spl. I have been shooting 38, so I figure I should stick with that caliber. Is 38 a good choice for the Scholfields? Are there any issues with the Scholfields in 38? Thanks, JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have always admired the look of them, but the other thread didn't sound good. However, I have three Cattleman revolvers and a 19" carbine and they all are fine weapons by Uberti, so I look forward to seeing more comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdstrain49 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I hope that my next project will be the 38. None of the No 3s that I have were very good out of the box. That being said, I really like all three of mine. Detractor may be many, but look back in history and you will see that discerning individuals chose the No 3s, and that still holds true today, at least in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Howdy Most shooters find that the Uberti versions of the #3 S&W revolvers, including their version of the Schofield model do not perform well with Black Powder. This is because of design changes to the gas collar when stretching the cylinder for 45 Colt. They seem to do fine with Smokeless Powder. Other than that, I would suspect a Schofield chambered for 38 Sp would be a relatively heavy gun, since the holes are so much smaller than 45 caliber holes. But certainly cheaper to shoot than the alternatives; 45 Colt, 44-40, and 44 Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. W. Winchester Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I reckon you're correct Driftwood, a 38 would be heavier. JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Coroner Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have 7 Uberti Schofields. 4 are 45LC with the 5" barrel and 3 are in 44 Russian with the 3 1/2" barrel. I dry fire pretty heavily and they haven't held up well, that's why I have 4 of the 45LCs, 2 match and 2 practice guns. I haven't had any problems with my match guns since confining my dry firing to the 2 designated practice guns, but my experience says they will not hold up as well as a Colt/clone or the tank that is Ruger. :-) I think these guns are great for shooting duelist, but I think you can do better if you are going to go 2 handed. Just my 2 cents. I strongly advise against using black powder in these guns. As many others have said in other threads, handle them all first before deciding what length barrel to go with. Good luck, Dutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's a shame to hear all these problems with Uberti's Schofields - they are mighty purty things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Coroner Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have to say as much as I like them, they are high priced and "high maintenance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. W. Winchester Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Thanks for all the feedback. Maybe I should stick with my Ruger Vaqueros. JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have to say as much as I like them, they are high priced and "high maintenance". My oldest girl is like that...But soon she will be a mommy and it might change... TL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 For the money you could do a lot better. But if you really want them well that's all that matters. My son has a pair in 45 that are stock and the actions are rough but they feel ok for GF/D. But for two handed shooting the action really shows it's flaws. I have heard there are people out there that can make them smooth. But that also runs higher than most. Good hunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Howdy Again High Maintenance is in the eye of the beholder. I shoot an original S&W Schofield, Russian, New Model, #3, and two Double Action 44s. I NEVER dry fire them, and I shoot them slowly and deliberately, treating them as the antiques they are. These guns were never meant to be shot rapid fire with two hands. If you dry fire a bazillion times a year, and want to be in the winner's circle, then perhaps something else would be better. If you shoot guns like these just for the joy of shooting them, they are fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Howdy Again High Maintenance is in the eye of the beholder. I shoot an original S&W Schofield, Russian, New Model, #3, and two Double Action 44s. I NEVER dry fire them, and I shoot them slowly and deliberately, treating them as the antiques they are. These guns were never meant to be shot rapid fire with two hands. If you dry fire a bazillion times a year, and want to be in the winner's circle, then perhaps something else would be better. If you shoot guns like these just for the joy of shooting them, they are fantastic. + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I had a pair of the Model 3 .44 Russians up until recently. They were excelent in quality and were easy to smooth up. My son used them as his first set of competition pistols when he started S.A.S.S. He placed in the top three in Cowboy in his third match, a regional, shooting them two handed. He took second place Cowboy in a state match in only his sixth match, also shooting two handed. I used them to shoot Frontier Cartridge in several matches and buckled a time or two myself. Neither of us ever dry fired them. We DID practice with snap caps a few times and I saw no ill effects. They had great fit and finish, needed little work to smooth them up, and only required that the main spring be re-arched to make them very easy to operate one handed as well. They are expensive, and they are a little heavier than Colts, clones of Colts, or my preference, Remington '75s! Someone else wanted them more than I did and I turned a tidy profit on them, but if the opportunity presented itself, I'd likely buy another pair for the right price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Forgive my ignorance, but do they have some safety mechanism that allows the safe carry of all chambers? When were such safeties invented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 So, for those of you who have suffered breakage with much use or dry firing - what is it that breaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Forgive my ignorance, but do they have some safety mechanism that allows the safe carry of all chambers? When were such safeties invented? We don't load six. In the old west they only loaded five unless they were expecting trouble. You can load six and let the hammer down between chambers, but when we're shooting S.A.S.S. it's not allowed. I'm sure you know this, but for those who might be looking in for the first time................ When I carry my single action revolvers today, and I sometimes wear an old sixgun, I drop the hammer between two rounds and put the tether loop over the hammer. I do not recomend this to others freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 We don't load six. In the old west they only loaded five unless they were expecting trouble. You can load six and let the hammer down between chambers, but when we're shooting S.A.S.S. it's not allowed. I'm sure you know this, but for those who might be looking in for the first time................. Roger that, but do you know when the internal safeties were added to make modern carry safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Howdy There were no safety devices on the original Smith and Wesson #3 large frame Top Break revolvers. They had a 'safety cock' notch on the hammer not too different than the hammer of a Colt SAA, keeping the firing pin back a bit from a primer under the hammer. Just like the SAA, this notch was not very strong and a sharp blow to the hammer could shear off the notch or the sear, firing a cartridge under the hammer. They were best carried with an empty chamber under the hammer, no different than a SAA. Here are three photos of the lockwork of my Russian model, showing the hammer all the way down, at the so called safety position, and all the way back at full cock. The lockwork of the Schofield model is similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/hammerdown.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/halfcock.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/fullcock.jpg The exception to this was the New Model Number Three. The New Model #3 was the most advanced design of the large frame Top Breaks. Some of these had a rebounding hammer. The lockwork automatically cammed the hammer back as soon as the gun fired, pulling the firing pin back. My New Model #3 has this feature, but even with this feature, the parts are still relatively fragile and it would not take too much of a blow to make the gun fire with a round under the hammer. I never load it with more than five rounds. Modern replica S&W Top Breaks have a hammer block incorporated into the design, they have to have some sort of safety device built into the design in order to meet import regulations. Even so, in their manual, Uberti says right up front to only load them with five rounds and keep an empty chamber under the hammer. Some other brands of Top Break revolvers did have safety features built in. Iver Johnson had a very famous advertising slogun early in the 20th Century called 'Hammer the Hammer', showing how it was safe to wallop the hammer with a hammer with a live round in the chamber. With S&W it was not until they developed their side swing Hand Ejectors in the early 20th Century that the guns became safe to fully load with six rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Bisley Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have a pair of Uberti Russians in .45 Colt. I had wanted a pair of the Taylors New Model 3 Frontier (Beretta Laramie); but they are very hard to come by. After about a year of waiting and calling the gals at Taylors every 3 months, they offered me the Russians instead. I bought them and liked them; but had really wanted the others, so after looking at a lot of pictures of both and comparing them, I had a gunsmith re-work the Russians to look more like the New Model 3s. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/AbominableBill/IMG_0101.jpg He did a great job. I also had gotten some information from the Cas City forum on modifications done by Happy Trails to help these guns work better with black powder. I contacted Hap and while he is now retired, he was very happy to give me the information that my gunsmith would need to do the same work on my Russians. I compete with my Russians and I use 200gr RNFP bullets backed with APP powder and grits for filler. On a dry day I can shoot 6 stages without an issue; but when humid I have to wipe the face of the cylinder after the 4th stage. I carry a spray bottle of moose milk in the gun cart and squirt some on a rag. Wipe down with the wet corner and then wipe dry with the dry corner. Works fine. They're more accurate than I am and having them to use is a hoot and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Coroner Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 For the money you could do a lot better. But if you really want them well that's all that matters. My son has a pair in 45 that are stock and the actions are rough but they feel ok for GF/D. But for two handed shooting the action really shows it's flaws. I have heard there are people out there that can make them smooth. But that also runs higher than most. Good hunting Ah ha! After all the grief Taco gives me about my Schofields, I find out he has some of his own. Dang kids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Howdy There were no safety devices on the original Smith and Wesson #3 large frame Top Break revolvers. They had a 'safety cock' notch on the hammer not too different than the hammer of a Colt SAA, keeping the firing pin back a bit from a primer under the hammer. Just like the SAA, this notch was not very strong and a sharp blow to the hammer could shear off the notch or the sear, firing a cartridge under the hammer. They were best carried with an empty chamber under the hammer, no different than a SAA. Here are three photos of the lockwork of my Russian model, showing the hammer all the way down, at the so called safety position, and all the way back at full cock. The lockwork of the Schofield model is similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/hammerdown.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/halfcock.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/fullcock.jpg The exception to this was the New Model Number Three. The New Model #3 was the most advanced design of the large frame Top Breaks. Some of these had a rebounding hammer. The lockwork automatically cammed the hammer back as soon as the gun fired, pulling the firing pin back. My New Model #3 has this feature, but even with this feature, the parts are still relatively fragile and it would not take too much of a blow to make the gun fire with a round under the hammer. I never load it with more than five rounds. Modern replica S&W Top Breaks have a hammer block incorporated into the design, they have to have some sort of safety device built into the design in order to meet import regulations. Even so, in their manual, Uberti says right up front to only load them with five rounds and keep an empty chamber under the hammer. Some other brands of Top Break revolvers did have safety features built in. Iver Johnson had a very famous advertising slogun early in the 20th Century called 'Hammer the Hammer', showing how it was safe to wallop the hammer with a hammer with a live round in the chamber. With S&W it was not until they developed their side swing Hand Ejectors in the early 20th Century that the guns became safe to fully load with six rounds. Interesting info - thanks! My stepfather had a Webley years ago (circa 1970), but I cannot remember (if I ever knew) if it was safe to carry all cylinders full. At the time, I was much more interested in shooting his swivel gun, which he later gave to me and I still have to this day. I wish now that I had taken more interest in the Webley when I had a live specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Reb Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have a pair of Uberti Schofields in 38 Spl. I have done action jobs on both. One was OK out of the box but the other really needed the action work. Now, both are fine. The cylinder throats were reamed uniformly and now have 11 degree forcing cones. Each is very, very accurate. Way more so that CAS requires, but nice to have in my view. Mine now have a couple thousand rounds through them and they continue to run very well. Mine have the 7 inch barrels and, yes, they are heavy in 38Spl. For me the Schofield points naturally. I really do enjoy shooting them. And, they do look nice!!! TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. W. Winchester Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hey Tommy Reb, who did the work on your Schofields? JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. W. Winchester Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Somebody mentioned Remington 75s. Cimarron Firearms has what they call the 1875 Outlaw 71/2". Is that the same thing? Has anyone had any experience with these revolvers? How do they feel? How's the action out of the box? How do they hold up to dry-firing and repeated use? Thanks, JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amos Dumas, SASS #8447 L Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have 4 Schofields in 38 and had Happy Trails do his conversion on two and bought two that he had done an action job on. They are accurate, attention getters at matchs and perform well. Do not use them for main match guns but shoot them occasionally at local matchs. I do not shoot black powder so can't comment on that. They are great looking and shoot well, would recommend them to have and to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. W. Winchester Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Blackwater - I think you mentioned the Rem 75s. Tell me about them. What caliber do you shoot? Thanks. JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Reb Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hello J.W. I did the work on my Schofields. I also have a pair of Uberti 1875 Outlaws (Remington's). Mine are the 7 1/2 inch in 357 Mag. The '75's were rough as a cobb out of the box, but easy to slick up. I do not dry fire mine so can't comment about wear and tear from that. I have not shot my '75 a great deal, but I would expect them to be fairly rugged, assuming the leaf springs hold up well. I enjoy mine, but due to frame design the reach to the hammer is a bit more than a typical Ruger, Colt SAA or clone. No problem two handed, but takes a little getting use to duelist. The '75's are nice guns, but not in the same league as the Schofields, IMO. But, then they are priced in a different league as well. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ah ha! After all the grief Taco gives me about my Schofields, I find out he has some of his own. Dang kids... Yea , do you remember when he used them at a match . Me neither . I think he would trade his Rugers for your Schofields for a match and I'll bet I know who sees the light . Your still the best CC I know so don't do a thing until after EOT . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Younger Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 After seeing Hickok45's video on the Uberti/Schofield I really want to get my hands on one. Even if I'd never use it at a match, it would be nice to have one. They are just too cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Blackwater - I think you mentioned the Rem 75s. Tell me about them. What caliber do you shoot? Thanks. JW The 1875 Remington replica is similar to the Colt copies. It has a one piece frame and grip that offers a little more room behind the trigger guard for those of us with bigger hands. The ones I have, (I have two pair) have an adjustment screw in the grip frame that allows you to add or remove tension from the main spring. My match guns are heavily modified. I slip hammer when I shoot with both hands on the gun. The triggers are set extremely light and on the lightest setting of the tension screw they won't fire reliably when shot one handed. I run these screws in when I shoot Duelist or otherwise one handed. Lets me have my cake and eat it too. I don't believe in actual dry firing. I use snap caps or I live fire, so I can't speak to the durability of them when dry fired repeatedly. I've shot the race guns for ten years. In that time I broke one main spring that was poorly finished by a gunsmith that I quit using because of it. I had Willy McCoy redo them after only three shoots as a result. Since that time I've broken one hand spring, and that after eight years of continuous use. I usually shoot two or more matches a month on average and at times shoot four and sometimes five matches a month during the spring and fall including major matches of ten or more stages a dozen or more times a year. For a couple of years I shot somewhere every weekend including one Christmas! We figure I've shot at least twenty thousand rounds through those two pistols in maches alone. Incidentaly, I took the broken hand spring and put the remaining piece back in the gun and have yet to replace it. My other pair are the shorter 5 1/2" models that I'm slowly working into Outlaw and Gunfighter specialty guns. The only other guns that I've shot regularly are 1860 Colt Army copies that I shoot Frontiersman with. I like guns with BIG grips. The Remingtons are not for everyone. Edit: You asked but I failed to mention, they're .45s. Been tempted to go .38/.357 but all my gear is .44/.45. Also the Remingtons are slightly heavier than Colt copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have two 5" Uberti top breaks in .45. The hammer pull out of the box is off the charts, but I hour glassed the main spring to make the effort reasonable. I can shoot a clone or Ruger quicker, but they have their own appeal. The hammer is a reach if you have small hands and shoot duelist. As long as you stick with low pressure rounds, I don't see why they wouldn't last a long time. Hot loads could stretch the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have two 5" Uberti top breaks in .45. The hammer pull out of the box is off the charts, but I hour glassed the main spring to make the effort reasonable. I can shoot a clone or Ruger quicker, but they have their own appeal. The hammer is a reach if you have small hands and shoot duelist. As long as you stick with low pressure rounds, I don't see why they wouldn't last a long time. Hot loads could stretch the frame. A note for those who work on their own guns. The springs on many Model 3s ride over on the bottom side of the grip frame. Remove your grips and carefully examine the main spring action as you go through a full cocking cycle. When the main spring hits the frame the effective spring pressure more than doubles. I've found that if you re-arch the spring so that it doesn't hit the grip frame, the effort required to fully cock the pistol is GREATLY reduced. It also makes the effort needed more consistant throughout the cocking stroke. On my Russians, I never ground or polished the factory springs. I carefully re-arched them until I got the cocking effort where I wanted it. It takes a little doing, but the springs will last much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ... I've found that if you re-arch the spring so that it doesn't hit the grip frame, the effort required to fully cock the pistol is GREATLY reduced. It also makes the effort needed more consistant throughout the cocking stroke. On my Russians, I never ground or polished the factory springs. I carefully re-arched them until I got the cocking effort where I wanted it. It takes a little doing, but the springs will last much longer. A lot of us have never even read about how to re-arch flat springs. Would you share your method with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Howdy Most shooters find that the Uberti versions of the #3 S&W revolvers, including their version of the Schofield model do not perform well with Black Powder. This is because of design changes to the gas collar when stretching the cylinder for 45 Colt. They seem to do fine with Smokeless Powder. Other than that, I would suspect a Schofield chambered for 38 Sp would be a relatively heavy gun, since the holes are so much smaller than 45 caliber holes. But certainly cheaper to shoot than the alternatives; 45 Colt, 44-40, and 44 Russian. Driftwood, do you know how they perform in .44-40 with BP? They sure are an awesome looking' pistol!! I had a pair in .45 Colt when I was shooting smokeless. Sold 'em, now I'm looking at a .44-40. Thanks for any info, Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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