What's the call Gunfighters and Rules Gawds?

[Anvil Al #59168]

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

I shoot Double Duelist. If I can't shoot 1st pistol 1,1,2,2,3 and then shoot 2nd pistol: 3,4,4,4,4. Then a GF can't shoot 1st 5/ 2nd 5 that way either. Has nothing to do with L,R, L,R ...it has to do with where the bullets landed.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The thing is with the wording the revolvers “we don’t shoot pistols” have been separated and required to be thought of individually.

 

With: sperative or tending to separate.

 

Each: considered individually.

 

So if we separate and consider each revolver individually as the stage description requires. Then (1L1R,2L2R,3L3R,4L4R any other engagement for the remaining rounds is legal). Can the two handed shooter shoot this sequence? Certainly, and probably most did shoot (r1,r2,r3,r4 any other/r1,r2,r3,r4 any other) the only difference is that they CHOSE to shoot one revolver at a time. As Pale Wolf stated “The order which firearms are used is irrelevant” and “it is the order of target engagement “ is entirely correct each revolver in the above case engaged the targets in the correct order and the correct sequence. Unless the stage description so states the shooter can not be required to shoot double duelist or duelist. Nor does the wording imply first five rounds and second five rounds. What it does say is shoot the revolvers separately and individually. Considered separately the 1-1,2-2,3-3,4-4-4-4 conforms exactly to the stage instructions as written.

12

 

If a NON-GF shooter couldn't engage the targets in that order without penalty...neither could a GUNFIGHTER.

...which is WHY the "first 5 shots/second 5 shots" conversion will likely be added to the GF rules for clarification.

 

As another example:

Stage instructions state "Sweep the 5 targets from L>R with each revolver".

A Gunfighter may NOT do a "double-tap" sweep without incurring a "P" even though "technically" he is putting one shot on each target with each revolver while engaging from left to right.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

12, Sorry but double-tap sweeping the targets as you mentioned would give you a P. The reason why has been mentioned above, several times.

 

I would never have thought you could doubletap sweep the targets, since the non-GFers cannot do it. You know, the whole "must shoot targets in the same order as non-GFer, regardless of which gun the bullet comes from" thing. HOWEVER, my issue with the instructions (and actually, it wasn't even my issue, it was brought up by another GFer on my posse) was that the "hit each target at least once with each pistol" instruction meant that you had to not only shoot the stage in a manner that was allowed for non-GFer, but you ALSO had to shoot it in a manner so that the bullets from each pistol hit each target at least once. I did not agree with him (like someone said, the spotters don't know which gun the bullet came from) but to avoid arguing and to save time I went ahead and shot it that way. I think I shot it L1 R2 L3 R4 L4 R1 L2 R3 L4 R4 .

So I guess the point is that the wording "with each pistol" can confuse some people in more ways than one.

 

Personally, I had no problems with the stage instructions as I knew what the intent was of the stagewriter.

[Anvil Al #59168]

1 it wasn't even my issue, it was brought up by another GFer on my posse) was that the "hit each target at least once with each pistol" instruction meant that you had to not only shoot the stage in a manner that was allowed for non-GFer, but you ALSO had to shoot it in a manner so that the bullets from each pistol hit each target at least once. I did not agree with him

 

 

Who ever told you that is just plan

 

Where do these people come up with this stuff. AND he was another GFer shooting in a category that he don't know the rules to.

 

Why do people make it harder than it is.

[Hawkshaw Fred SASS #36811]

Well after reading 97 yes 97 posts it seems that there is STILL no consensus on this issue. While it is "Perfectly clear" to some <with these stage instructions> that a double tap is legal it is equally as clear to some that it is not! Two TGs, who are ROIIs and top shooters, spoken to in person, had opposing views on this question as well. It IS ambiguous enough that Pale Wolf is looking at a clarification in the rule book. I will no longer argue or debate WHICH is right or wrong. I will only say that from reading this thread for two days and the wide difference in opinions from across the country on this matter, that the rule and stage instructions were both open to too much interpretation.

 

If you READ what I wrote---AGAIN I am NOT arguing ANYTHING! I am merely stating that there is a HUGE difference of opinion; with BOTH sides VERY CLEAR in their beliefs!

 

YOU directed post #71 to me asking to tell us all how you wanted to shoot it. I tried to explain to you that I WILL NOT get into a heated personal argument with you, especially not AFTER THE FACT.

 

Down to post #104 there are STILL people who say the way I wanted to shoot it is correct <double tapping>---I AM NOT SAYING IT IS CORRECT--But OBVIOUSLY the wording OR the RULE is NOT CLEAR TO LOTS OF PEOPLE NOT JUST ME.<so it was not just MY way> I NEVER said I was right, NEVER! I asked to see where the rule was that prohibits what I wanted to do. You told me if you shoot it that way you get a 'P' and I am not discussing it anymore, this is some stuff they came up with in Louisiana <I had/have NO IDEA where that came from> but YOU said it.

 

As for what you were told before the match about this being problematic wording--I was not there to hear it, quite true. However, Joe Darter told ME PERSONALLY that he had stated to you prior to the match that this stage wording was a source for issues and that you disagreed with him. If YOU want to call Joe Darter a liar then go ahead I will not do so.

 

As for threats of not coming back---I NEVER make threats! I DID make a statement of FACT that I would NOT attend another match that you ran, and I will not(that is my prerogative). You on the other hand swore you would never come back to a Tin Star match and trashed their match here on the wire for days, then returned to their next big match then trashed them again (I WAS part of running that match, and if you recall when a question came up over how a stage was to be shot I was the one who said YOU were right as it was worded poorly). I have made NO such attacks on you, nor on this match, nor anything else. I do not believe the Wire is the place for such. Anything I said or did was done in broad daylight and in direct contact with PEOPLE, NOT behind the anonymity of a computer screen.

I DID NOT start this thread. I privately asked for a rules clarification of PWB two days before this thread appeared and had no intention of putting ANYTHING on the wire.

 

I AM NOT arguing ANYTHING. I simply would like a clarification for EVERYONE to be on the same page when a decision is made and to have something more than an opinion or interpretation to back it up. It is OBVIOUS from this 4 pages of discussion that it IS NOT A CLEAR RULE to MANY MANY people!

No matter which side is right or wrong there should NOT be this big of a division on what the rule is. PWB has already said he will put it on the agenda to consider a clarification change, there was no need for this 4 page discussion. Until that clarification is made IN THE RULEBOOK, your opinion, my opinion, or 50 other opinions are just that OPINIONS! or if you like the word interpretations better then they are interpretations.

 

As for whether MY OPINION of you being an A**hole OR NOT or yours of me being an A**hole OR NOT has NOTHING to do with the discussion of the rules and ambiguity of the stage instructions.

[Hoss]

Well said Fred!

[Pit Bull Tex]

Why bad mouth anyone.Did I know how to shoot the stage(NO).Will I the next time I hope so.I ask to learn.I will shoot that stage at home or at orange.Like I said before I am not the brightest bulb on the tree.I have not shot Gunfighter that long.When it said each thats what I thought it meant.I will get with Possum and learn the wording for GF.I thought the stages were great, just because I am a dumba$$ don't get on the stage writer.Phantom,I will shoot your stages anytime.I may have to ask.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

Wow....all of this because a Gunfighter does not understand that they can't engage the targets in a sequence that would give two handed shooters a P.... come on guys.....it ain't that hard to understand.

 

Gunfighter X.....you are holding the timer. Would you give me (a wrangler) a P if I shot my first 5 shots and then my second 5 shots the way you want to shoot it?

 

Answer = Yes....then a Gunfighter can't do it that way either

Answer - No......then a Gunfighter can do it that way

 

and if you can't answer yes or no because you're not sure then ask someone that to help you determine the answer.....and when you get home from the match read the RO1 and RO2 some more.

 

Stan

[Madd Mike #8595]

If you really understand GFer rules.

 

The stage as written was not a problem.

 

Could it be worded a little better. Yea. But if you understand GFer rules. There should not have been a problem.

yah, what al said, folks try to read to much into gf, its simple, you can NOT do things different than anyother pistol shooter in the string of shots......................think string of shots....................think string of shots

and I aint talken bout wiskey

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hello!

 

This thread has gotten to the point where a dear man and my mentor would say it needs to be closed to let tempers cool.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo