klw Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If I understand correctly you can get a cartridge version of the 1860 army two ways. You can buy a cap & ball gun and then get a conversion cylinder. There are two types of cylinders. One just slips in. The other requires modification of the gun. Also you can buy a replica that is set up for cartridges. I don't know if this latter option can be switched back to a non-cartridge gun or not. There would seem to be a lot of options here. Which is best? Also are any of them set up for the 45 Schofield cartridge? klw 31116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 They are two totally different animals. The Uberti ready made Colt Conversion style guns are built from the ground up to be a six shot cartridge pistol and as thus are not made to be reversible as there was no other starting place. It looked very apparent to me when laying them side by side with their cap and ball counterparts and the feel was also very different to me. I actually prefer the true conversions of cap and ball pistols and for our sport it is not a big deal to lose the one round in the cartridge cylinder. My choice with Remingtons is to stay with the uncut frame as reloads are no dramatically slowed by removing the cylinder anyway, ala Eastwood style. With the Colts I plan to go with a full Kirst conversion and I have a pair picked out and just waiting for adequate funds to ship them off. Sadly, I must report the downside to preferring this plan, it will cost me considerably more than my factory built Uberti Richard Mason Conversions cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 KLW I have a pair of each,converted,with conversion cylinders 51 navy's and factory conversions 1860 type II's. I can't pick a favorite,historically their were no 1851's in 44 caliber while the Type II's are slightly closer but still not exact. See this thread currently on going that will help answer some of your questions. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191210 If cost is a concern the factory conversions are probably the route to go. Adios Sgt. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 KLW, I did just such a project earlier this year. I'll say first that I have never modified a gun anyway before this. I stared with an 1860 Colt by Pietta from Cabelas, when they were on sale: http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/11860percusion-s.jpg Now it is a 6 3/4" barrel: http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/7cuttingloadinggate-s.jpg Smoothed the barrel lug a little: http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/4smooththosesharpedges-s.jpg Kirst 45 Schofield conversion cylinder: http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/6Kirstinstalled-s.jpg I broke out my dremel. Two hours and 3 1/2 sanding drums later I had a cartridge gun. http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/7cuttingloadinggate-s.jpg Here is the finished product. I had a gunsmith install the front sight, slicked it up and blued the machined areas. Do to time constraints, its very first shot was during my very first match! http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/10alldonefornow.jpg http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t381/tornado1861/11slimjim.jpg On a side note, how do you post an image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nice work Tornado! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I like it but think I will send mine off for the full treatment. I have been known to go a bit to far at times! I know they are not historically realistic but I also like the Pietta Navys in 44 caliber due to the smaller grip frames. As I understand it Colt actually made the first run of 1860s with the Navy gip frames and I;m thinking perhaps a slightly shorter barl. There was two stories out on this earliest version of the Army Model, one was that a parts deley caused Colt to run the first batch with existing grip frames and barls while another version was that those changes were mandated after the first batch was released?? I wish one of the makers would offer this historically accurate model though. ****Have you guys all seen the Pietta 1860 Armys with the stainless looking hard finish? This is supposed to be the same metal treatment/type that was put on their '51Navy Marshal series and the claim is that, though not actually stainless, it is very rust and wear resistant. It is my hope to get the Kirst parts polished to match this finish on my Marshal series.**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My understanding is that if you just drop-in a cylinder, the gun is still treated as a cap-n-ball if you want to sell it. If the gun is permanently modified for the purpose of shooting cartridge (ie cutting the recoil shield) then it has to be treated as a normal pistol if it is being sold. I plan to get conversion cylinders for my 1851 .44 Navies but they will just be the drop-in type. One pistol comes apart pretty easily; the other does not...yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 My understanding is that if you cut the recoil shield you have manufactured a firearm and you must retain possession of it forever. You cannot sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 My understanding is that if you just drop-in a cylinder, the gun is still treated as a cap-n-ball if you want to sell it. If the gun is permanently modified for the purpose of shooting cartridge (ie cutting the recoil shield) then it has to be treated as a normal pistol if it is being sold... My understanding is that if you cut the recoil shield you have manufactured a firearm and you must retain possession of it forever. You cannot sell it. In the past that was my understanding as well (which simply means that I had read it at various times on the internet). But a couple of years ago this came up at CASCITY and Raven (Jay Strite of Kirst) stated that, depending on your state laws, it is legal to sell a converted gun. See discussion here: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,34827.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANASSAS DRAGON Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 on a similar note,does anyone know if any of the 1860's or any other early colts were converted yo .44 henry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Johns Wolf Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Yes, Colt Army Long Cylinder Conversions, were made for the .44 Henry RF cartridge. And of course the Colt 1871-72 Open Top which looks like a conversion but isn't one. Long Johns Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I do not remember he specific reference and I've not renewed my FFL, BUT, before anybody takes off in the wrong direction, state law is secondary to the federal statutes. When you cut the loading channel into the recoil shield of a C & B handgun, you have manufactured a firearm. You may manufacture a firearm for yourself. If you sell it or give it away, you have manufactured a firearm without a lisence. A felony. BEFORE you do something really stupid, quit asking the question here, of folks who don't know anymore than you do, and CALL THE FEDS. Then call your state firearms folks and find out the applicable law for YOUR state. In today's atmosphere, the FEDS will NOT just slap your hands. Think about it. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Forgot. The person who buys it, is in possession of an illegally manufactured firearm. Also a felony. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I like it but think I will send mine off for the full treatment. I have been known to go a bit to far at times! I know they are not historically realistic but I also like the Pietta Navys in 44 caliber due to the smaller grip frames. As I understand it Colt actually made the first run of 1860s with the Navy gip frames and I;m thinking perhaps a slightly shorter barl. There was two stories out on this earliest version of the Army Model, one was that a parts deley caused Colt to run the first batch with existing grip frames and barls while another version was that those changes were mandated after the first batch was released?? I wish one of the makers would offer this historically accurate model though. ****Have you guys all seen the Pietta 1860 Armys with the stainless looking hard finish? This is supposed to be the same metal treatment/type that was put on their '51Navy Marshal series and the claim is that, though not actually stainless, it is very rust and wear resistant. It is my hope to get the Kirst parts polished to match this finish on my Marshal series.**** Don't believe everything you read. Mine rusts, quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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